Peculiar letters from the RN

[BBB167893]

I don`t understand what`s the big deal with the Ramsey`s going after Tom Miller, if he claimed that PR wrote the RN and she in fact didn`t.

I'll be more than happy to tell you what the big deal is, Mysteeri: Miller was prosecuted on false charges as a political favor to the Rs' lawyer, Hal Haddon. The private investigators working on behalf of the Rs were instructed from the very top to dig up dirt on Miller to use against him if he were ever called into court to testify against PR. And his prosecution (he was acquitted in less than an hour) was purely for that purpose. Do you know what the terms of the plea-bargain they offered him were? He'd have to give up his law license and disavow his own claims to be a handwriting expert. No self-respecting man could accept that.

None of this is in dispute, Mysteeri. David Williams, the man in charge of this operation, copped to all of that in open court.

You said it yourself: if he claimed that PR wrote the RN and she in fact didn`t Well, if she didn't, why did they NEED to pull all of this garbage to make sure he couldn't testify in the FIRST PLACE?

What bothers me most is the 118 000 dollars. It can`t be a coincidence, the writer knew about John`s bonus.

I completely agree.

Without the RN, IDI would be much stronger for me.

That's easy to say now.

 

[BBB167893]

Additionally, some people actually believe the handwriting matched PR's.

Including this one.

 

[DeeDee249]

well exactly.

has anyone looked at Burke's handwriting and/or linguistic features and compared w/RN?

BR was under 10 years old at the time. No way the RN had either the linguistics or the penmanship of a boy that age.

It does, however, match his mother's handwriting and linguistics right down to the (now outdated) practice of putting a period between letters in acronyms. (S.B.T.C.)
Patsy signed letters that way herself: (P.P.R.B.A.) etc.

 

[voynich]

BR was under 10 years old at the time. No way the RN had either the linguistics or the penmanship of a boy that age.

It does, however, match his mother's handwriting and linguistics right down to the (now outdated) practice of putting a period between letters in acronyms. (S.B.T.C.)
Patsy signed letters that way herself: (P.P.R.B.A.) etc.

Most kids that age can PRINT a letter. I do think though the spelling would be beyond most kids age (i.e attache)

 

[madeleine]

You only handwrite a long RN if you're completely confident nobody is going to match it up. There were exactly zero completely confident people living in the house, or in the neighborhood either.

@bold
Huh?
That would mean our intruder never wrote anything else in his life until he decided to leave this rn in order to.......in order to.....what exactly?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

@bold
Huh?
That would mean our intruder never wrote anything else in his life until he decided to leave this rn in order to.......in order to.....what exactly?

This is usually where I ask the same old question and get the same old answer.

Would you do it?

That is, would you, as a person living in a house where there had been an accidental death/coverup or whatever, put in your hand a pen and write not just a few sentences but a whole dissertation?

At some point it may be useful to consider other alternatives as to why someone would volunteer 1500 characters of their personal handwriting at a capital crime scene.

 

[Mysteeri]

Not very nice tactics from the R`s towards Tom Miller. I still do not understand the problem with the motive- if he claimed that Patsy wrote the RN and she didn`t, it`s a false accusation that connects Patsy to the murder and I can imagine myself wondering (if innocent), what kind of corrupted specialist is this. Why wouldn`t they go after him?

It is not a fact that Patsy`s handwriting matches the RN, it`s a matter of interpretation and belief, right?

 

[Queenofwands]

I'll be more than happy to tell you what the big deal is, Mysteeri: Miller was prosecuted on false charges as a political favor to the Rs' lawyer, Hal Haddon. The private investigators working on behalf of the Rs were instructed from the very top to dig up dirt on Miller to use against him if he were ever called into court to testify against PR. And his prosecution (he was acquitted in less than an hour) was purely for that purpose. Do you know what the terms of the plea-bargain they offered him were? He'd have to give up his law license and disavow his own claims to be a handwriting expert. No self-respecting man could accept that.

None of this is in dispute, Mysteeri. David Williams, the man in charge of this operation, copped to all of that in open court.

Do you have a link/source for this, Dave? I've been out of the loop on this case for a long time. TIA :bang:

 

[madeleine]

This is usually where I ask the same old question and get the same old answer.

Would you do it?

That is, would you, as a person living in a house where there had been an accidental death/coverup or whatever, put in your hand a pen and write not just a few sentences but a whole dissertation?

At some point it may be useful to consider other alternatives as to why someone would volunteer 1500 characters of their personal handwriting at a capital crime scene.

If it was written out of panic(RDI) then I guess the writer didn't think of the consequences.It wasn't planned.An intruder on the other hand would have had all the time in the world to think about the consequences.He didn't accomplish anything with it anyway so why bother and risk?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Not very nice tactics from the R`s towards Tom Miller. I still do not understand the problem with the motive- if he claimed that Patsy wrote the RN and she didn`t, it`s a false accusation that connects Patsy to the murder and I can imagine myself wondering (if innocent), what kind of corrupted specialist is this. Why wouldn`t they go after him?

It is not a fact that Patsy`s handwriting matches the RN, it`s a matter of interpretation and belief, right?

And again, it becomes a question of who the 'they' is. Was it the R's acting on their own, as portrayed here? Or was it the R's lawyers deciding what was best for them in their defense?

 

[Ravyn]

Not very nice tactics from the R`s towards Tom Miller. I still do not understand the problem with the motive- if he claimed that Patsy wrote the RN and she didn`t, it`s a false accusation that connects Patsy to the murder and I can imagine myself wondering (if innocent), what kind of corrupted specialist is this. Why wouldn`t they go after him?

It is not a fact that Patsy`s handwriting matches the RN, it`s a matter of interpretation and belief, right?

So the R's never attacked no one the says prior sexual abuse then the must be true..But why Tom Miller not found guilty so tell me this there was many that said PR wrote the RN why not go after them what scared the R's so bad about Tom Miller..To me,in SD post I seen who was corrupt and it wasn't Tom Miller..

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If it was written out of panic(RDI) then I guess the writer didn't think of the consequences.It wasn't planned.An intruder on the other hand would have had all the time in the world to think about the consequences.He didn't accomplish anything with it anyway so why bother and risk?

I'll bite. First of all the letters look unnatural. In fact, they look painstakingly made. Some of the letters lean in different directions making for a very awkward printing style, and I believe anyone printing in this fashion would be very slow going about it. One of the reasons we have cursive writing is for speed's sake. Printing takes more time, but this style of print would use up more time on the clock.

Okay so I moved them over to Windows Pic & Fax, enlarged them, and I can see an unusual amount of detail has gone into the making of each letter. What would normally be ovals or circles on the a b d and e are actually squares. Weird!!!

It screams fake ransom note to me, and PRDI, imo.

One RDI thinks the RN was written very slow, another thinks it was written in a hasy panic. OK.

That is, hasty panic not thinking about consequenses is irrational, right? But we don't know for a fact that it was written in a hasty panic.

Disguising the RN handwriting by occasionally boxing letters is also irrational. Imagine wearing a mask to rob a bank and occasionally removing it. But again we don't know for a fact the boxed letters were an attempt to disguise anything.

Maybe look for rational reasons why someone would volunteer 1500+ characters of mixed boxed/unboxed style handwriting at a capital murder.

BTW you avoided the question. Imagine yourself in the most completely irrational hasty panic you've ever been in. Would you do it? Would you write the RN and add to it threats of unusual violence to a child not related to ransom? Not found in other ransom notes?

 

[madeleine]

One RDI thinks the RN was written very slow, another thinks it was written in a hasy panic. OK.

That is, hasty panic not thinking about consequenses is irrational, right? But we don't know for a fact that it was written in a hasty panic.

Disguising the RN handwriting by occasionally boxing letters is also irrational. Imagine wearing a mask to rob a bank and occasionally removing it. But again we don't know for a fact the boxed letters were an attempt to disguise anything.

Maybe look for rational reasons why someone would volunteer 1500+ characters of mixed boxed/unboxed style handwriting at a capital murder.

BTW you avoided the question. Imagine yourself in the most completely irrational hasty panic you've ever been in. Would you do it? Would you write the RN and add to it threats of unusual violence to a child not related to ransom? Not found in other ransom notes?

I guess I wouldn't but that's because I followed a lot of cases and I know there's no perfect crime and what technology can do these days.

BUT
I am not an arrogant,rich,superior person who thinks is UNTOUCHABLE and able to fool everyone.Then again,we sure have different opinions when it comes to the prime suspects in this case.

And if I think again,I have no idea how I would react.Do you know for sure how YOU would?What you would do or not?

 

[madeleine]

A rational person with a plan on his mind would have kept it shorter.But in a moment of panic I guess the writer just went on and on with that bs and wasn't able to stop.

 

[Ravyn]

And again, it becomes a question of who the 'they' is. Was it the R's acting on their own, as portrayed here? Or was it the R's lawyers deciding what was best for them in their defense?

Yes, one can think if this is the case maybe their own lawyers didn't believe in the R's innocence or they knew the truth of PR did right the RN and Tom Miller having a grest standing in his field would cause their little house of cards to come crashing down...Cause if they went to court what would really hurt them...

 

[Mysteeri]

So the R's never attacked no one the says prior sexual abuse then the must be true..But why Tom Miller not found guilty so tell me this there was many that said PR wrote the RN why not go after them what scared the R's so bad about Tom Miller..To me,in SD post I seen who was corrupt and it wasn't Tom Miller..

To me them going after someone or not, is not that informative- the motive is just speculation and could derive from innocence or guilt. It seems that the handwriting analysis is not very reliable. Perhaps the findings of Dr. Lee for example, are based on scientific facts such as the structure and erosion of the hymen, though I would imagine it`s still speculative to say that there was prior abuse, let alone to identify the abuser. But no point going after him and his findings.

Anyway, I guess the question was, if Tom Miller issue is a problem for IDI, and I don`t think it is.

 

[coco puff]

You only handwrite a long RN if you're completely confident nobody is going to match it up. There were exactly zero completely confident people living in the house, or in the neighborhood either.

but WHY? they weren't going to get a randsom? why would they write a RN at all. Why leave any part of you at the scene? You are done with the crime. You won't get a ransom. It makes no sense at all. The only reason anyone would write that note is if they wanted to make someone esle look guilty. You know.... someone other than who LE looks at first... The Family. In this case, they picked a small foreign faction to blame... yeah, that's the ticket. LE won't be able to track down a "small one". And if you think it didn't work, you are wrong.... here we are debating it over a decade later. Pretty good reason for someone in the house to fake a RN.

also, in my opinion, every adult in that house was 100% confident that they were above the law! I lived in Fort Collins while this crime happend. While the proximity doesn't give me insight, it did give me 24/7 coverage of two people who clearly thought they were smarter then the collective town of Boulder, Colorado.

 

[BBB167893]

Not very nice tactics from the R`s towards Tom Miller.

You got that right!

I still do not understand the problem with the motive- if he claimed that Patsy wrote the RN and she didn`t, it`s a false accusation that connects Patsy to the murder

You don't seem to understand, Mysteeri. If she didn't write it, then what did they have to worry about? Why not just take him to court themselves if it was so easy to prove him wrong? But they DIDN'T. Instead, one lawyer calls in another for a favor and brings a prosecution that he refused to even consider for two full years so that if he's ever called into court to testify against the Rs, he'll have a conviction they can use against him?

In other words, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
That's as plainly as I can put it.

and I can imagine myself wondering (if innocent), what kind of corrupted specialist is this.

That's a very neat rationalization. But that's entirely the problem, Mysteeri: he wasn't corrupted. He actually had a very solid reputation in the CO court system. That's WHY he was targeted in the first place: because he was too dangerous to them.

There was plenty of corruption, all right. That's how this whole ugly mess started and almost ruined an innocent man's life.

It is not a fact that Patsy`s handwriting matches the RN, it`s a matter of interpretation and belief, right?

That could be said of ALL handwriting analyses, Mysteeri. And I'm not just saying that, either.

 

[BBB167893]

Do you have a link/source for this, Dave? I've been out of the loop on this case for a long time. TIA :bang:

I do indeed. I have a copy of the transcript from Miller's trial.

 

[BBB167893]

And again, it becomes a question of who the 'they' is. Was it the R's acting on their own, as portrayed here? Or was it the R's lawyers deciding what was best for them in their defense?

I actually think those are fair questions.

Okay, let's spitball here for a moment.
Let's say the Rs were in the dark about this. That the lawyers were acting in what they thought were the best interests of their clients. That leaves us with a few questions.

1)Just what did they think was going to happen when this information got out?

2) Weren't they worried as to what the Rs would say when they found out?

In short, they played it as though they had good reason to think their clients were in trouble. And you have to ask why they believed that.

But then, that's kind of the problem with lawyers: even if you're innocent, a lawyer will always defend you like you're guilty.