Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

[Reader]

From the Huffington Post link ~8 posts upthread:

"...Speaking to Matt Lauer, Jay Paterno described his father as 'such a strong individual'
who was focused on building Penn State and making sure any victims of the sex abuse scandal received justice.
'There was never a situation where he sat around and felt bad for himself...' " [BBM]


Back in 2002 JoePa techncally fulfilled legal reqmt to report JerSan's shower 'incident' up the line.

But what action did JoePa take after that to make sure the victims received justice?

In my mind, his waiting until 2011 when he was interviewed (called to GrJury?) does not count
toward making sure the victims received justice.


Help pls, someone fill me in.

Nothing...

 

[Reader]

The heresay rule in PA would permit testimony from someone who has died to be entered:

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/225/chapter8/chap8toc.html

Wonder why Paterno did not do this then?

 

[wfgodot]

Penn State scandal shaped Wisconsin's response to Chadima (SI.com)

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- The Penn State scandal certainly caught the attention of officials at Wisconsin, compelling them to review and reinforce protocols for reporting sexual assaults and think about how they might handle a scandal of their own.

It didn't take long.

According to a report released by the school Tuesday night, a male student employee accused athletic department official John Chadima of grabbing his genitals at an alcohol-fueled party while the team was at the Rose Bowl. Chadima has resigned and issued an apology without acknowledging the specific allegations in the report.
---

more at the link above

 

[Reader]

This is a very interesting blog by a sexual abuse victim and former graduate assistant to Joe Paterno:


http://mattpaknis.blogspot.com/2011/11/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wonder why Paterno did not do this then?

He did, the grand jury testimony.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Tonight's Law and Order: Special Victims Unit was about students being molested by their coach. I didn't watch all of it, but it was almost as if they were filming parts of Sandusky's book! It was called "Personal Fouls."

At the beginning, Mariska Hargitay made a speech about male sexual assault.
Video Here:
http://www.nbc.com/law-and-order-sp...special-message-from-mariska-hargitay/1381288

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'd strike McQueary from the list. He was a teaching assistant at the time, without any clout and he reported it, like he was suppose to. When the guy who is head of the campus police comes to you and says everything is okay, you are suppose to believe it. Had he walked into Spanier's office in 2002, the response would have been "Mike who?"

"Mike who?", indeed. Isn't he the teacher's assistant, with ZERO prior coaching experience, that JoePa made an Assistant Coach in one of the largest, most powerful collegiate football programs in the country?

Is Happy Valley a great place or what? One day you're trying to put your shoes in a locker and BAM! Next thing you know you're on the sidelines on Saturday afternoons in the fall making the big bucks!

All you got to do is not rock the boat. Well, that and go play in golf tournaments with the sleazy old dude you saw in the showers that night RAPING A CHILD!

 

[Tipstaff]

"Mike who?", indeed. Isn't he the teacher's assistant, with ZERO prior coaching experience, that JoePa made an Assistant Coach in one of the largest, most powerful collegiate football programs in the country?

Is Happy Valley a great place or what? One day you're trying to put your shoes in a locker and BAM! Next thing you know you're on the sidelines on Saturday afternoons in the fall making the big bucks!

All you got to do is not rock the boat. Well, that and go play in golf tournaments with the sleazy old dude you saw in the showers that night RAPING A CHILD!

I do give McCreary credit for his Grand Jury testimony. It 'appears' he was forthright in that testimony - BUT I do believe you are right there was a payoff to McCreary and his dad for keeping silent and not pursuing the matter with law enforcement or child welfare.

It is laughable to say the Curley & Schultz were THE law enforcement powers at Penn State.

If anyone knowing of the crimes of Sandusky wanted to see action and Sandusky stopped they could call the police, the state police, the DA, the newspaper, the New York Times, the Washington Post,My Space (remember that) Facebook, etc. We are talking about a major university - heaven knows they know how to use computers.

The crimes of Sandusky, and those who covered up his crimes for over a decade, came out publicaly in November and as one poster wrote above many now are trying to 'reset' or rewrite what we we think we knew.

Sandusky is the coach now - if he takes a guilty plea on the charges this goes away - if he goes for the "Hail Mary Pass" a trial it will get uglier.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Agreed. And with respect to Reader's post above concerning whether the mad dog or its owner is more responsible JS is no mad dog. He is a man driven to abuse boys and without compunctions as how to satisfy that drive. We know he was cunning, manipulative and brazen and I think it is unlikely that he was EVER on Paterno's leash so far as his child-abuse went.

In fact, for JS, having to "step down" from his coaching duties was, I suspect, a blessing in disguise. More leisure time and retention of privileges meant all kinds of extra opportunities for this predator.

And the parallels to high tragedy, Greek or otherwise, are disingenuous. The tragic hero's flaw is one of character and not of circumstance, and I don't see that Paterno's hubris was the decisive factor in his not going further than he did to get JS arrested. Ignorance or impatience, maybe -- but hubris? Really? How? The flaw brings the tragic hero to her/his death/destruction, and we are horrified and sorry for him/her, but the point is not that the end invalidates the life but quite the opposite: it throws the life into uncomfortable relief.

Audiences went to tragedies to be moved, and morally improved, by the their cathartic experiences (if you believe A), or at least to appreciate the well-wrought aesthetic unities. They did not go to jeer or snipe. I too wish the guy had moved faster, further and more decisively. But even knowing as little as I do about the man and the program, I see no way in which he is prime mover in this debacle, nor do I see that he "aided and abetted" a chronic abuser. These are Sandusky's crimes, and his alone. Should JP bear some blame for his relative inaction, lack of followup and so on? Certainly. Is he "just as bad or worse than JS?" Certainly not.

scapa out

Hmmm...

Hubris

(In Greek tragedy) an excess of ambition, pride, etc, ultimately causing the transgressor's ruin.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hubris

Excess of ambition?

When Mike McQueary told Joe Paterno in 2002 that he'd seen Jerry Sandusky raping a 10-year-old boy in the shower, Paterno was in business with longtime Second Mile board chairman Robert Poole to build a $125 million luxury retirement community called "The Village at Penn State."

Each partner stood to make an estimated $590,000 in fees and 15 percent annual interest on an $125,000 initial investment if the project was successful enough to get funding for a second phase.

http://deadspin.com/5865111/joe-pat...-sandusky-was-caught-allegedly-sodomizing-boy

Pride?

Paterno's million dollar paycheck couldn't afford a scandal involving his football program. They were already calling for his resignation over this 5 year run.

Penn State Football Records-

2000 - 5 wins, 7 loses
2001 - 5 wins, 6 loses
2002 - 9 wins, 4 loses
2003 - 3 wins, 9 loses
2004 - 4 wins, 7 loses

In the "what have you done for me lately" mindset of big time collegiate athletics, all the pep rallys in the world wouldn't have been able to get Paterno past this dismal record AND an abhorant moral scandal with direct ties to the football program.

I don't pretend to know a lot about Greek Tragedys, but if ambition and pride leading to a downfall are the defining terms for hubris, I see nothing disingenuous regarding this parallel comparison.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

"Mike who?", indeed. Isn't he the teacher's assistant, with ZERO prior coaching experience, that JoePa made an Assistant Coach in one of the largest, most powerful collegiate football programs in the country?

Several years later. A few weeks ago, I looked that the pattern of hiring, and McQueary's rise was similar to some of the others in the program, including Sandusky.

 

[Belinda]

I will always believe that Joe Paterno knew all about Sandusky for years. He just chose to ignore it because of his precious football program.

 

[Tipstaff]

Hmmm...



Excess of ambition?

Pride?

Paterno's million dollar paycheck couldn't afford a scandal involving his football program. They were already calling for his resignation over this 5 year run.

Penn State Football Records-

2000 - 5 wins, 7 loses
2001 - 5 wins, 6 loses
2002 - 9 wins, 4 loses
2003 - 3 wins, 9 loses
2004 - 4 wins, 7 loses

In the "what have you done for me lately" mindset of big time collegiate athletics, all the pep rallys in the world wouldn't have been able to get Paterno past this dismal record AND an abhorant moral scandal with direct ties to the football program.

I don't pretend to know a lot about Greek Tragedys, but if ambition and pride leading to a downfall are the defining terms for hubris, I see nothing disingenuous regarding this parallel comparison.

So if we follow the money...............................

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If anyone knowing of the crimes of Sandusky wanted to see action and Sandusky stopped they could call the police, the state police, the DA, the newspaper, the New York Times, the Washington Post,My Space (remember that) Facebook, etc. We are talking about a major university - heaven knows they know how to use computers.

First, and this complicates matters, the department that would be the reporting agency was the one headed by Schultz. Usually, any report to another agency would get referred back to the department with jurisdiction.

Second, without evidence, I doubt if the press would touch it. There was no Facebook at the time and I'm not sure about MySpace. In 2002, Sandusky was a respected individual, head of a major charity, with an excellent record. McQueary was a TA, at the bottom of totem poll, not an assistant coach.

Third, the 2002 incident was weak; even today, it is not the strongest of the charges. It is one witness, no victim. Amendola claim he has the victim, who will testify that nothing happened (and he may).

I was, and still am, very critical of the DA in regard to the 1998 incident. If it was the 2002 incident, I wouldn't be. It came down to just one witness, who may not come off as credible and, even if he is credible, could have misinterpreted something he saw.

Now, the circumstances in 2002 begged for further investigation, but that didn't happen. So did 1998, where LE was greatly involved, but that didn't happen either.

 

[Tipstaff]

First, and this complicates matters, the department that would be the reporting agency was the one headed by Schultz. Usually, any report to another agency would get referred back to the department with jurisdiction.

Second, without evidence, I doubt if the press would touch it. There was no Facebook at the time and I'm not sure about MySpace. In 2002, Sandusky was a respected individual, head of a major charity, with an excellent record. McQueary was a TA, at the bottom of totem poll, not an assistant coach.

Third, the 2002 incident was weak; even today, it is not the strongest of the charges. It is one witness, no victim. Amendola claim he has the victim, who will testify that nothing happened (and he may).

I was, and still am, very critical of the DA in regard to the 1998 incident. If it was the 2002 incident, I wouldn't be. It came down to just one witness, who may not come off as credible and, even if he is credible, could have misinterpreted something he saw.

Now, the circumstances in 2002 begged for further investigation, but that didn't happen. So did 1998, where LE was greatly involved, but that didn't happen either.

All are possible but nothing from 1998 to 2011 came to fruition in reporting these rapes...and Sandusky had the keys to the castle for a lot of that time....and his former mentor was the most powerful/money maker at Penn State University.....this had to be a cover-up of major proportions.

But I have been wrong before.

 

[Chili Fries]

I will always believe that Joe Paterno knew all about Sandusky for years. He just chose to ignore it because of his precious football program.

I agree.

I've seen this type of thing up close before. I was an athlete at the University of Miami in the mid-1980s. Jimmy Johnson was the football coach then. (Johnson went on to win multiple Super Bowls with the Dallas Cowboys and is a TV personality now). Back there was all kinds of trouble within the UM football program. The team had a national image for being the bad boys and it was well deserved. Even our strength coach, Pat Jacobs, got arrested for running a big steroid selling operation (but the media were assured that the players never got steroids from him, which I know was a blatant lie).

Johnson could have put a stop to all of it but that would have hurt his career and these coaches like Johnson or Paterno have HUGE egos. To make it in bigtime football you have to have that attitude. You can't win big without the marginal players, the ones who are trouble. And the coaches who have high moral standards aren't the ones who rise to the top. It's not just with the illegal stuff either, people on the outside wouldn't believe what goes on academically. A school like Penn State may have a good academic record for it's football team but I guarantee you that includes a lot of bending the rules...with attendance, players getting to see tests early, players getting credit for classes that other students don't or even taking classes that aren't offered to regular students...stuff like that.

Paterno showed his true colors in 2002 when defensive back Anwar Phillips got suspended from school for the upcoming semester for sexual assault but Paterno still let him play in the bowl game. He also downplayed a FSU player's sexual assault charge a few years later.

 

[Concerned Papa]

First, and this complicates matters, the department that would be the reporting agency was the one headed by Schultz. Usually, any report to another agency would get referred back to the department with jurisdiction.

Second, without evidence, I doubt if the press would touch it. There was no Facebook at the time and I'm not sure about MySpace. In 2002, Sandusky was a respected individual, head of a major charity, with an excellent record. McQueary was a TA, at the bottom of totem poll, not an assistant coach.

Third, the 2002 incident was weak; even today, it is not the strongest of the charges. It is one witness, no victim. Amendola claim he has the victim, who will testify that nothing happened (and he may).

I was, and still am, very critical of the DA in regard to the 1998 incident. If it was the 2002 incident, I wouldn't be. It came down to just one witness, who may not come off as credible and, even if he is credible, could have misinterpreted something he saw.

Now, the circumstances in 2002 begged for further investigation, but that didn't happen. So did 1998, where LE was greatly involved, but that didn't happen either.

The Pennsylvania State Police would also have jurisdiction. The 2002 case is only weak because of a decades long plot to dilute and reduce the impact of what Mike McQueary saw.

As for Mike McQueary's credibility, it remained strong in the grand jury's presentment and would remain strong in any jury's consideration at trial.

As for Sandusky's lawyer claiming the 2002 shower victim says it didn't happen? I haven't seen him be right about anything yet.

As for Sandusky and respect? Those days are forevermore gone.

 

[Steely Dan]

So if we follow the money...............................

You won't find SM's 2001 or 2002 financial reports.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The Pennsylvania State Police would also have jurisdiction. The 2002 case is only weak because of a decades long plot to dilute and reduce the impact of what Mike McQueary saw.

No, it was one witness. That is all anybody ever had in that incident.

As far as I know, the PSP tend to refer it to the local department, the one that Schultz oversaw.

As for Mike McQueary's credibility, it remained strong in the grand jury's presentment and would remain strong in any jury's consideration at trial.

Credibility and accuracy are two different things.

As for Sandusky's lawyer claiming the 2002 shower victim says it didn't happen? I haven't seen him be right about anything yet.

It is even on Wikipedia. He announced it weeks ago, prior to preliminary hearing. True? Posturing? I don't know.

2002 isn't the strongest charge; it never was. It becomes McQueary's word and accuracy against Sandusky; alone, with no victim, looking at other counties in the area, I could understand if it wasn't prosecuted.

As for Sandusky and respect? Those days are forevermore gone.

2002 had 365 of "those days." So did 2003, 2005, and 2006. 2004 had 366.

 

[Quiche]

This is a very interesting blog by a sexual abuse victim and former graduate assistant to Joe Paterno:


http://mattpaknis.blogspot.com/2011/11/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

This was a great read. A keen presentation from a former insider... very worthwhile, imo. Thanks for the link.

 

[Concerned Papa]

2002 had 365 of "those days." So did 2003, 2005, and 2006. 2004 had 366.

And the responsibility for each one of those 1,826 days of respect afforded to that rapist rest squarely on the shoulders of all who knew, yet did nothing to protect those children.

Starting with Joe Paterno.