Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #10

[seagull65]

from wiki sociopath -
It is very difficult to recognize a sociopath but in a nutshell, a sociopath is a parasite. There is no help because a sociopath does not want to be helped. A sociopath will attract you with his charm and bring you to his side, then he will toy with you, lie and show no remorse. Sometimes there will be a fake smile in his face while he engages in his malicious ways. When confronted, he will deny any responsibility, then back away from you and blame you for whatever wrong he did. What is worse, everybody will believe him because he is able to gain sympathy in a cunning and calculating way.

This seems to be the current popular definition that you see a lot. (I love wikipedia, of course anyone can put definitions and interpretations on there, you see a mixture of popular definition and expert definitions.) Of course there are lots of other disorders (not just personality disorders) that could result in a person killing another person. "Psychopathy/sociopathy" is just very popular these days and often slapped onto anyone who is believed to have committed certain kinds of crimes, without knowing if they are guilty, or what is actually wrong with them.

Joran definitely has not been cunning or calculated. That we know for sure. But I don't rule out the possibility that he's a psychopath.

 

[jjenny]

Which is why I've always wondered whether it's 'nature vs. nuture'. Are they born a sociopath or is it bred - or both? I tend to think it's more nurture. Certainly is the case with JVDS, Scott Peterson and a number of others I can't think of at the moment.

As far as I am concerned, sociopath is just a label that people (like Pat Brown) throw out there. "He is a sociopath" well by golly that explains everything then.

 

[jjenny]

This seems to be the current popular definition that you see a lot. (I love wikipedia, of course anyone can put definitions and interpretations on there, it's a mixture of popular definitions as well as expert definitions.) Of course there are lots of other disorders (not just personality disorders) that could cause behaviors we think we may have seen with JVDS, and which can cause people to murder. "Psychopathy/sociopathy" is just very popular these days and often slapped onto anyone who is believed to have committed certain kinds of crimes, without actually knowing what is wrong with them.

Joran definitely has not been cunning. That we know for sure.

My feelings exactly. Just a label slapped on what seems so many these days.

 

[nums24]

This article the defense claims JVDS is sorry and stable and clever:

http://translate.google.com/transla...t-pedira-declarar-nula-investigacion-policial

 

[mosouri]

I about fell off my chair when I heard the news of his "complete" confession...however, he is still playing his games and like they say it will backfire on him.
He is a control freak and knows he still holds the ACE card when it concerns the Holloways.
He said he will only tell the Aruba authorities.
Will he have to go to Aruba to tell them his story and where the body is? Or will Aruba send someone to Lima?

I can see where this will go:
I will tell only the Aruba authorities.
In Aruba.
And then while, in Aruba, there may be some stupid Dutch law that can hold him there...which he is probably "gambling" on....and still no body...and he says he lied.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Joran Charged with Murder!


http://translate.google.com/transla..._hel_van_Lima__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

Thank you!

<snip>

Jorans kersverse Peruaanse advocaat, Maximo Altez, heeft de rechter verzocht diens bekentenis ongeldig te verklaren.​

Joran brand new Peruvian lawyer, Maximo Altez, has asked the court to invalidate his confession.

De Nederlander zou maandag niet zijn bijgestaan door een advocaat.​

The Dutchman Monday would not be assisted by a lawyer. <snip>

Is this true??

 

[krt]

His story was that she was buried under the foundation of the house. But the house wasn't under construction in 2005.
""Van der Sloot then told the cooperating witness that van der Sloot's father, Paulus van der Sloot, had disposed of Natalee's body by burying her remains in the gravel under the foundation of the single story house," read the court documents. The senior van der Sloot died last year."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/van...ays-mom-lied-remains/story?id=10874347&page=2

But maybe she was buried there...........where the foundation was layed for the house. joran or daddy could have known the land was sold for someone to build on it and so they chose to bury her on that lot knowing that foundation would be placed and then a house built...................just food for thought.....................:waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

I about fell off my chair when I heard the news of his "complete" confession...however, he is still playing his games and like they say it will backfire on him.
He is a control freak and knows he still holds the ACE card when it concerns the Holloways.
He said he will only tell the Aruba authorities.
Will he have to go to Aruba to tell them his story and where the body is? Or will Aruba send someone to Lima?

I can see where this will go:
I will tell only the Aruba authorities.
In Aruba.
And then while, in Aruba, there may be some stupid Dutch law that can hold him there...which he is probably "gambling" on....and still no body...and he says he lied.

He can say whatever he wants. Why in world would Peru let him to to Aruba?

 

[impatientredhead]

The 10 grand was in cash. Although they have him on tape counting it out, I'm guessing they felt they would have more hard core proof by wiring the 15 grand directly into his account. Maybe the cash was to give him a false sense of security in order to reel him in? Maybe I watch too much TV. :crazy:

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...cord-straight-joran-van-der-sloot-and-the-fbi

By legal definition the cash transaction is a different crime than the wire transferred money. They did not feel confident that Aruba would work with them to extradite based on the single charge. They were building their case with multiple counts and varying charges.

 

[3doglady]

The last time Aruba detained Joran he had confessed to possibly tossing a live Natalee in the ocean. The court in the Netherlands forced Aruba to release him AND pay him compensation for the detention. So do you really think they would detain him for a financial crime for which they could not extradict him?? Detain him for what reason?? He could not be extradicted to the US so under what possible legal authority would Aruba have to detain him? And please everyone, don't quote the talking heads on NG, Greta or any other of the newsmagazine shows because they lie, lie, lie, it is all about ratings and creating news, & seriously, they are simply a pool of misinformation! (imho of course)

This article posted by ImpatientRedhead says that wire fraud is an extraditable offense.

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...cord-straight-joran-van-der-sloot-and-the-fbi

 

[jjenny]

But maybe she was buried there...........where the foundation was layed for the house. joran or daddy could have known the land was sold for someone to build on it and so they chose to bury her on that lot knowing that foundation would be placed and then a house built...................just food for thought.....................:waitasec:

From abc article, I think the house was already build in 2005.

 

[mahmoo]

The police said at the outset they thought the motive was robbery
because they know Flores won $5000 cash that night and had it on her
but the room search found her billfold empty.

How could he have been broke? Mrs Holloway had just given him
$10-$25,000 in Aruba?

"High Rollers" can burn through that amount of cash VERY quickly....one or two bets actually. If he has the self-centered personality I think he has....he probably made some major cocky bets at the tables that cost him alot, if not all, of the money he had traveled from Aruba with.

 

[Patty G]

Which is why I've always wondered whether it's 'nature vs. nuture'. Are they born a sociopath or is it bred - or both? I tend to think it's more nurture. Certainly is the case with JVDS, Scott Peterson and a number of others I can't think of at the moment.

I wonder if a person has to have all the definitions of a "sociopath" to be a "sociopath" or does only one trait classify a person as a "sociopath."

I know pathological liars, but they don't have any of the other traits.

I know people who "live on the edge" of life, of which, I did when I was younger and didn't care.

My brother had behavioral problems as a child and academic problems in school, but none of the other traits.

I know a lot of people with poor work ethics, but no other signs.

 

[krt]

Ah..........now I see (duh) I thought you meant that the house wasn't even built in 2005.............late night

Actually, you could take the article either way.................unless I'm reading it wrong....(wouldn't be the first nor probably last time)

 

[jjenny]

Not per jjenny a few posts up

The article says the house was not under construction in 2005 which I presume means it was already build in 2005. I am pretty sure if there were any possibility she was actually buried under its foundation they would have looked.

 

[nums24]

It still talks about having 24 hours to file a complaint. (If I'm reading that correctly.)

I agree with you, here is another translation:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/..._hel_van_Lima__.html?sn=binnenland,buitenland

 

[Unreals]

There is a lot of misinformation about Joran's background. First of all, the Van der Sloots are not wealthy- they are solid, middle-class people. By American standards, they aren't even at that level. For instance, their home is very modest, and only has air-conditioning in one small room. Second, his father was never "influential" enough to circumvent the law in Aruba. He was not a judge- only training to be one, no matter how many times Nancy Grace and co. refer to Joran as "Judge's son."

He has no violent history with women, outside of the two very high profile cases he's connected to. There is a large group on Facebook, for instance, consisting exclusively of his former girlfriends, who wanted to show their public support for a young man they all claim treated them well.

I just get fed up when I hear the Nancy Grace/Jane Velez-Mitchell/Geraldo mantra about "Daddy not being there to protect him any more." Paul was not in a position to protect him before; being jailed for three months, enduring nonstop interrogations, was some new form of "protection."

I'd love to share all our research on Beth and the Mountain Brookies. But I have to leave something for the book.

 

[Nancy2441]

I wonder if a person has to have all the definitions of a "sociopath" to be a "sociopath" or does only one trait classify a person as a "sociopath."

I know pathological liars, but they don't have any of the other traits.

I know people who "live on the edge" of life, of which, I did when I was younger and didn't care.

My brother had behavioral problems as a child and academic problems in school, but none of the other traits.

I know a lot of people with poor work ethics, but no other signs.

I think you have to have all the traits. For me, the main thing is the sense of entitlement and not feeling compassion or empathy for others, and being oblivious to the suffering they bring into others lives.

Most people think of sociopaths as someone like Scott Peterson, but most sociopaths never kill anyone. But they sure bring a lot of emotional pain.

I thought this was a good article on sociopaths:

http://www.youmeworks.com/sociopaths.html

 

[krt]

The article says the house was not under construction in 2005 which I presume means it was already build in 2005. I am pretty sure if there were any possibility she was actually buried under its foundation they would have looked.

We ARE talking about Aruba right? I wouldn't assume anything they said!

 

[nums24]

Thank you!

<snip>

Jorans kersverse Peruaanse advocaat, Maximo Altez, heeft de rechter verzocht diens bekentenis ongeldig te verklaren.​

Joran brand new Peruvian lawyer, Maximo Altez, has asked the court to invalidate his confession.

De Nederlander zou maandag niet zijn bijgestaan door een advocaat.​

The Dutchman Monday would not be assisted by a lawyer. <snip>

Is this true??

from reading other articles, JVDS had a public defender present, but did not approve.

Here is another article I just found revealing motive:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../90segundos/detalle.php?Catid=89&NewsId=35972