Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[LaLaw2000]

Thanks for sharing the Good Housekeeping article!

Now, in the article, Beth says Joran described Natalee's underwear. Do men really remember the details of women's underwear? Like the colors of flowers or whatever. Maybe he kept it? Sometimes serial killers keep things from their victims as a souvenir. I also wonder if he was trying to do the same thing with Stefany's underwear then he saw that she was on her period and changed his mind. If that is what happened, that would explain why she wasn't wearing pants when she was found.

Just a thought.

Many murderers keep a souvenier of the victim. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he had.

JMO

 

[suzihawk]

That clears my question up. I thought he dyed his hair in Peru, my mistake. It's hardly a good idea for a disguise though, I would think a wig or moustache would have been a better idea.
Thank you.

Speaking of moustaches, one of the things that stood out to me in the 'coffee video' was that he had the appearance of a heavy shadow on his upper lip. My first thought was it was an attempt as a disguise. But if the whole thing was staged as an alibi, that kinda shoots that out of the water, I guess. Maybe it was just a shadow due to lighting or whatever. It was just an interesting observation.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Just fwiw, from someone who followed the NH case very closely for over two years, and I'm not an expert, but...................

the alleged {proof} that was provided for Beth's alleged arrival 3 hours prior to her actual arrival was a hoax. It was NOT the OFFICAL receipt. NO, it was a picture of a format for the receipt with the ALLEGED EARLIER ARRIVAL TIME TYPED INTO THE FORMAT.

This was all brought out at the same time there were two 'SELF-PROCLAIMED' PSYCHICS running around the island of Aruba, CLAIMING all sorts of BS slanderous allegations against the Twitty/Holloway family and Natalee. This is where the BS came from the Natalee had an unhappy home. It was complete lies!!!

To add insult to injury, at the time these two grifters were running around Aruba making all kinds of chit up, there was a SUPPOSED journalist doing a documentary about the Holloway case. She fed into these two and they fed into her.

Beth arrived in Aruba at the later time, 11 pm. Any other time mentioned is just plain wrong.

JMHO
fran

Thank you. This is interesting. Makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that BH would lie about her arrival time for some secret purpose. I followed the NH case at the time but just on TV. I didn't get on the Internet and follow it in more depth. What I heard was mostly what was on Greta von Susteren's show at the time, I guess.

I must say that I don't see why BH has to "defend" her statement of what time she originally arrived in Aruba, but JVDS doesn't have to defend all the weird and downright mean things he has done, some of which were on camera, including that weird fiddling at his hotel room door.

 

[fran]

Gosh! I just feel so bad that poor Joran is going to have to be in prison in Peru! NOT!:innocent:

Bet he wishes he woulda' admitted what he did to Natalee now. Six years in Aruban priosn verse 35 possible years in Peru.:loser:

Just sayin'
fran

PS....oh, and he can whine all he wants about wanting to serve time in Aruba and not Peru. It's not gonna do any good. I read a long article by a guy from Holland who visits Dutch prisoners being held in Peru. Sad cases and very horrible living conditions. Can't wait until we get a glimpse of how Joran is suffering. I know, I'm mean. :angel:




http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_73549.php

Prison
The prisons in Peru are described as ‘one of the worst in the world’. After care and rehabilitation in the Netherlands writes: “In practice, the situation is most prisons leave a lot to be desired. The food is poor to reasonable, so that one must buy extra food. In some prisons, one could rent a cell and in other prisons, one could purchase a cell. After the imprisonment, the latter may be sold again.” In general, the quality of the medical care in the prison is bad, according to the after care and rehabilitation Netherlands. “The overpopulation in the often centuries-old buildings generally leads to poor hygienic circumstances. Tuberculosis, hepatitis and other infectious deceases often occur.”

 

[SleuthyGal]

According to JVDS's own confession, he says "SFR slapped him and wanted to leave (his room.)" Then he grabbed her, hit her and ... well we know the rest.

So why would JVDS not allow SFR to leave his room? According to him he was angry that SHE brought up the NH case (after allegedly using his computer without his permission). Wouldn't you WANT a person to leave if you felt they insulted you or otherwise made you upset? Wouldn't you WANT them to get out of your space? I sure would.

Murdering them doesn't get them out of your room...or out of your space. DOH!

 

[Emeralgem]

I haven't had the opportunity to view all videos released or read every post and would like to ask if someone could provide the link or direct me to the video where he knocks on the door, realizes the door is open, shuts it and then knocks again..TYIA for any help given. concerning this video...

 

[i.b.nora]

I am glad Fran mentioned those two very strange people, amongst all the other very strange people inserting themselves in the Holloway case from the very beginning. I had forgotten about them.
Regarding the time zone stuff, Alabama observes Daylight Savings Time, Aruba does not, so its a 2 hour difference during our Standard Time and a 1 hour difference during our Daylight Time.

 

[Flow]

I didn't realize that Beth was aware of [and worried about] C&C before Natalee even went down to Aruba.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports//

It is interesting how often casinos pop up in both Joran related cases.

 

[fran]

I didn't realize that Beth was aware of [and worried about] C&C before Natalee even went down to Aruba.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports//

It is interesting how often casinos pop up in both Joran related cases.

Natalee's male cousin had been to Aruba with another class. Perhaps he had warned them about C&C. I actually thought he didn't say anything until after Natalee went missing, but perhaps I was wrong.

JMHO
fran

 

[suzihawk]

I haven't had the opportunity to view all videos released or read every post and would like to ask if someone could provide the link or direct me to the video where he knocks on the door, realizes the door is open, shuts it and then knocks again..TYIA for any help given. concerning this video...

Here ya go. Enjoy.

http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhj0gvS0YmetSkupg6YgO_Hm6hD4Rg

 

[Melanie]

Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.

Hi Unreals,

I have to respectfully disagree. When we have verbal words from JVS that he admits to leaving with NH, and the Kalpoe brothers -- how do you dispute that? Did he make it up, and why?

I'm not too concerned with the timeline as described by Beth. Her daughter was missing and my last concern would be what time it was. There would be a time difference, and my mind would be spinning.

While I'm not analyzing the friends statements - as that doesn't bother me either, I'm analyzing the prime suspect who admitted to Natalie being in the car, making out with her, and dropping her off at the beach.

He also said he left his shoes behind. Those shoes have never been found.

In short, why would someone incriminate themselves in a missing persons case, if they were not in fact involved.

Respectfully,

Melanie

Holloway was last seen by her classmates leaving the Aruban bar and night club Carlos'n Charlie's[34] around 1:30 a.m. on Monday, May 30.[35] Holloway left with 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot, a Dutch honors student living in Aruba and attending the Aruba International School,[36] and his two Surinamese friends, 21-year-old Deepak Kalpoe[37] and 18-year-old Satish Kalpoe,[37] in Deepak Kalpoe's car.[8][38] Holloway, who had been scheduled to fly home later on May 30, did not appear for her return flight,[5] and her packed luggage and passport were found in her Holiday Inn room.[8][30] Aruban authorities initiated searches for Holloway throughout the island and surrounding waters but did not find her.[8]

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.

Unreals, please don't think I am picking on you, I'm not. The beauty of this forum is it is an open diaglogue between individuals with varying perspectives and ideas. I have to take exception to your comments, however. I'm surprised you did not read the formal FBI statements provided by students on the trip. There were, in fact, individuals who stated they saw Natalee get into the car with the Kalpoes and yelled at her to get out. In fact, the official statements given by the Kalpoes to investigators confirm that such occurred. I'm surprised you haven't read them. (In fact, students gave media interviews confirming the same.) I don't know what kind of "official immigration" document you have, but the Van der Sloots, the Aruba investigators, and Holiday Inn employees' statements to investigators are consistent with Beth's provided timeline of when she arrived at the hotel, when the police arrived, when she woke up the van der sloots, etc. Not sure of the basis for your "fact" (you are writing a nonfiction book, after all) that Natalee had an unhappy home life, but even if true, I fail to see your point. Apparently, it did not interfere with Natalee's life as by all accounts she was an active, involved community member and student & had earned a full scholarship to college.

 

[Melanie]

According to JVDS's own confession, he says "SFR slapped him and wanted to leave (his room.)" Then he grabbed her, hit her and ... well we know the rest.

So why would JVDS not allow SFR to leave his room? According to him he was angry that SHE brought up the NH case (after allegedly using his computer without his permission). Wouldn't you WANT a person to leave if you felt they insulted you or otherwise made you upset? Wouldn't you WANT them to get out of your space? I sure would.

Murdering them doesn't get them out of your room...or out of your space. DOH!

The only reason I can think of is she had incriminating evidence (found on the pooter) and he didn't want her to leave the room with the information and go to LE. yes, the average person would just say "leave".

Best,

Mel

 

[jjenny]

The only reason I can think of is she had incriminating evidence (found on the pooter) and he didn't want her to leave the room with the information and go to LE. yes, the average person would just say "leave".

Best,

Mel

I find that extremely hard to believe. You are talking about the guy who is on video telling stories about Natalee, and so I sincerely doubt he would be scared about some girl telling she saw things on his computer. Him personally telling stories did not lead to his conviction. Somebody else claiming they saw something on his computer would not scare him one bit, IMO.

 

[Melanie]

Unreals, please don't think I am picking on you, I'm not. The beauty of this forum is it is an open diaglogue between individual's with varying perspectives and ideas. I have to take exception to your comments, however. I'm surprised you did not read the formal FBI statements provided by students on the trip. There were, in fact, individuals who stated they saw Natalee get into the car with the Kalpoes and yelled at her to get out. In fact, the official statements given by the Kalpoes to investigators confirm that such occurred. I'm surprised you haven't read them. (In fact, students gave media interviews confirming the same.) I don't know what kind of "official immigration" document you have, but the Van der Sloots, the Aruba investigators, and Holiday Inn employees' statements to investigators are consistent with Beth's provided timeline of when she arrived at the hotel, when the police arrived, when she woke up the van der sloots, etc. Not sure of the basis for your "fact" (you are writing a nonfiction book, after all) that Natalee had an unhappy home life, but even if true, I fail to see your point. Apparently, it did not interfere with Natalee's life as by all accounts she was an active, involved community member and student & had earned a full scholarship to college.

Excellent post, and honors the integrity that was Natalie. You know what, I never read the official statements. Do you have a quick link? If not, I can google it. I just never read it, since JVS had already admitted leaving with NH early on. Yet, it would be good reading.

All the best,

Mel

ps: Not picking on Unreals either. I appreciate both sides.

 

[FLNY]

There is a series of nine You Tube videos that capture a TV interview with Stephany's father, with English sub-titles. Only 6 have been posted to date.

This interview took place on June 6, so her father was not aware at the time of more recent details that have come to light this week.

I have added them to the sticky thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106482"]Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


I will add the other 3 when they have been posted on You Tube.

 

[Melanie]

Thanks for sharing the Good Housekeeping article!

Now, in the article, Beth says Joran described Natalee's underwear. Do men really remember the details of women's underwear? Like the colors of flowers or whatever. Maybe he kept it? Sometimes serial killers keep things from their victims as a souvenir. I also wonder if he was trying to do the same thing with Stefany's underwear then he saw that she was on her period and changed his mind. If that is what happened, that would explain why she wasn't wearing pants when she was found.

Just a thought.

BBM = shivers. I've heard that several serial killers keep momentos of their crime. Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy come to mind. Of course we don't know if he kept NH underwear.

Best,

Mel

 

[sandangel]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. He does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish
Google translation. http://translate.google.com/transla...t-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel&sl=es&tl=en

Thank you, fran

Oh well, life sucks Joran. Guess you should have thought about this BEFORE you took Stephany's life.

WHAT A SNAKE HE IS!!! :furious:

 

[hollyblue]

I find that extremely hard to believe. You are talking about the guy who is on video telling stories about Natalee, and so I sincerely doubt he would be scared about some girl telling she saw things on his computer. Him personally telling stories did not lead to his conviction. Somebody else claiming they saw something on his computer would not scare him one bit, IMO.

I'm not a beleiver of the "computer" story, but what if she did see incriminating evidence of some sort to do with the extortion plot? Emails to/from his co-horts involved? If known, would open a whole new can of worms up.....and not a pretty one. ????

 

[newcomer]

JVS wants to be allowed t serve his sentence in Aruba. He does not want to be in jail in Peru for fear they will kill him.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493794/joran-van-der-sloot-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel
The link is in spanish
Google translation. http://translate.google.com/transla...t-tengo-miedo-que-me-maten-carcel&sl=es&tl=en

Thank you, fran

LOL this is the funniest thing I've heard all day!!! He's amazing, "really, I'll tell the truth this time!!! (not)" How interesting that he is trying to set conditions on his prison. Like "ok, you can imprison me, but it has to be the one I choose" LOL incredible!!!

Like Peru would leave Aruba in charge of incarcerating JVS after their bumbling of the NH case.

Furthermore, I think they should just stop listening to his stories about what happend to NH for the shear fact that he enjoys stirring the pot with his lies and that's how he gets attention. If he were to tell the truth and her body were found, what else would he have to get attention? He'd just fade away and the only likely time he'll get his name in the papers again would be when he dies.