Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[jjenny]

I'm not a beleiver of the "computer" story, but what if she did see incriminating evidence of some sort to do with the extortion plot? Emails to/from his co-horts involved? If known, would open a whole new can of worms up.....and not a pretty one. ????

I doubt that too. I mean, people knew what he was doing (he asked for money, got the money, and then admitted he lied about the location of the body) so what could he possibly be afraid of she could reveal that was not already known?

 

[sandangel]

That article does make it sound like there was never an actual coffee run. I'm starting to think that JVDS just used stuff he already had in his room to try to fake having gone out and come back with food and drinks. But I'm not absolutely sure. I guess we just have to wait and see. I wonder what is Peru's reasoning for when and why they release certain videos. We got the "SF and JVDS going up to his room" video, then a while later the "SF and JVDS in the casino" video, and then finally the "JVDS fiddles with coffee and his door" video, as far as I recall.

Then where did the danish come from? This entire coffee run episode is so confusing.

 

[Unreals]

fran,

The immigration document is legitimate- it is not a forgery. Beth went through customs at 7:45, which means she probably arrived there at app. 7:00. Why she has said consistently that she arrived at 11:00 is something for her to explain. Btw, there is an employee at the airport who has verified the earlier arrival time.

As for the students, please provide an example of one of them testifying to Natalee getting in the car. Yes, everyone (last night, the "Dateline" special repeated this, again without any examples) maintains that "Natalee was seen" entering the car, but the individual statements do not reflect this. I realize Joran and the Kalpoes admitted being in the car with her, but as you know, there was initially some doubt as to whether or not they even knew who Natalee was, or were confusing her with another blonde.

That doesn't mean I necessarily doubt that Natalee got into a car with them, but it does seem very strange that none of her friends were willing to go on the record, individually, about actually witnessing it. Of course, this hasn't stopped Beth and company, or any mainstream journalist, from declaring that they did.

I think there are a myriad of disturbing questions in both of these cases.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Excellent post, and honors the integrity that was Natalie. You know what, I never read the official statements. Do you have a quick link? If not, I can google it. I just never read it, since JVS had already admitted leaving with NH early on. Yet, it would be good reading.

All the best,

Mel

ps: Not picking on Unreals either. I appreciate both sides.

Sorry I don't have a link, I have the actual files. However, the Kalpoes' official statements are contained in the Aruba dossier as well as the civil case file in California (which is a public file). I think they may be posted on www.blogsfornatalee --but I am not certain of that.

 

[hollyblue]

I doubt that too. I mean, people knew what he was doing (he asked for money, got the money, and then lied about the location of the body) so what could he possibly be afraid of she could reveal that was not already known?

Exposing others who may have been involved that we don't know about. People who's heads would fly...literally including JVS if they were implicated. Do you really think JVS would have tried to pull this off without anyone else involved? I just have a hard time believing he would have tried this on his own. BH and NH was a money maker for JVS and there are other scumbags out there who would jump on the bandwagon. JMO. Of course, if that is true, then the Peruvian police have that knowledge now.

 

[Melanie]

Shaved his head- rubbed the stubble with peroxide- done!

I used peroxide as a toner once and bleached my eyebrows by accident- that's the color I got. My hair is the same color as Joran's. I really doubt he put any effort into it at all. Some people use peroxide as a mouth rinse, etc. He could have had it with him.

With everything else going on, I hadn't really thought about this. If he didn't buy it after, what if he bought it before he went to the casino. That would mean he was intending to disguise himself for some reason (pre-meditation maybe). At 8:30 in the morning, where is he going to find peroxide? In the hotel lobby?

It does make more sense that he bought hydrogen peroxide -- as that would be easier to find as a mouth rinse, as well as turning ones hair orange. BUT, I thought you had to mix the peroxide with water, lemon, or bleach.

When did he do this? EEK.

MOO

Mel

fill a spray bottle about half way with water, another fourth of the way with hydrogen peroxide, then half of the rest of the way with lemon juice. Spray it on my wet hair, then spend the day in the sun letting it air dry. It works immediatly!

 

[hollyblue]

Then where did the danish come from? This entire coffee run episode is so confusing.

I really think we have not seen all the videos involved.

 

[jjenny]

Then where did the danish come from? This entire coffee run episode is so confusing.

I suppose if there is a danish he could have had it in his room from before. The video shows him coming up out of his room with cups. So he got the cups and danish from somewhere, but it does not necessarily mean he got it when Stephany was there.

 

[ks1]

"Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island."

Unreals, this post just confuses me. For the record, I am not asking for explanation for any other reason that I would like to understand your point of view as I haven't read anything that you have posted as of yet that makes me even remotely consider the possibilty of a conspiracy. It takes a brave soul to get on a board like this and deal with all of the backlash from such a differing opinion and I never try to insult anyone! Now my questions:
1. Why does Beth's recollection of her arrival time have anything to do with a conspiracy theory?
2. Do you have documentation as to her arrival time, and if so and you are correct, don't you feel that she must have been under extreme duress and not even capable of remembering such detail of her arrival?
3. Why do you think that Joran makes numerous false confessions?

 

[jjenny]

Exposing others who may have been involved that we don't know about. People who's heads would fly...literally including JVS if they were implicated. Do you really think JVS would have tried to pull this off without anyone else involved? I just have a hard time believing he would have tried this on his own. BH and NH was a money maker for JVS and there are other scumbags out there who jump on the bandwagon. JMO. Of course, if that is true, then the Peruvian police have that knowledge now.

What others? I see no reason why he couldn't come up with this on his own. By the way, do you really think he would be worried about others to the point he would do what he is accused of doing just to protect somebody else? From where I stand, it would appear he worries mostly about himself.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

According to JVDS's own confession, he says "SFR slapped him and wanted to leave (his room.)" Then he grabbed her, hit her and ... well we know the rest.

So why would JVDS not allow SFR to leave his room? According to him he was angry that SHE brought up the NH case (after allegedly using his computer without his permission). Wouldn't you WANT a person to leave if you felt they insulted you or otherwise made you upset? Wouldn't you WANT them to get out of your space? I sure would.

Murdering them doesn't get them out of your room...or out of your space. DOH!

Excellent question. The lack of logic is just another indicator that once again, Joran is lying.

 

[Nana46]

FWIW..on the hair/peroxide conversation...I worked for a surgeon for over 20 years and we used hydrogen peroxide daily...I even did his laundry at one spell and used the peroxide to get blood out of his clothing...it is wonderful in removing blood stains so perhaps Joran knew this somehow or maybe the word "peroxide" made him think it would actually bleach his hair....he and Scott Peterson sure screwed that idea up though,lol.

 

[bhammom]

I suppose if there is a danish he could have had it in his room from before. The video shows him coming up out of his room with cups. So he got the cups and danish from somewhere, but it does not necessarily mean he got it when Stephany was there.

Agreed. He did stay in that room for two weeks so it's quite possible he had empty coffee cups, partially full cups, extra food, etc. just sitting around.

 

[hollyblue]

What others? I see no reason why he couldn't come up with this on his own. By the way, do you really think he would be worried about others to the point he would do what he is accused of doing just to protect somebody else? From where I stand, it would appear he worries mostly about himself.

I think JVS was, did, knew etc all kinds of scrupulous people. International gambling and sex trafficking? No small french fry stuff here. IF the computer theory turns out to be true (?) I think he was scared for his own safety--as always, not for the protection OF someone else...just what may happen to him if "they" were implicated.

Remember there had to be more than just daddy involved in the cover up for him and the mention of the level of corruption down there. Everything didn't happen via a computer link nor did JVS live in a vacuum.

 

[AbbieNormal]

According to JVDS's own confession, he says "SFR slapped him and wanted to leave (his room.)" Then he grabbed her, hit her and ... well we know the rest.

So why would JVDS not allow SFR to leave his room? According to him he was angry that SHE brought up the NH case (after allegedly using his computer without his permission). Wouldn't you WANT a person to leave if you felt they insulted you or otherwise made you upset? Wouldn't you WANT them to get out of your space? I sure would.

Murdering them doesn't get them out of your room...or out of your space. DOH!

In the links the Peruvian LE says in his confession he said "she slapped him and wanted to escape." He didn't say she wanted to "leave" or wanted to "go", he used the word escape. I think thats an interesting choice of words.

jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

Here ya go. Enjoy.

http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhj0gvS0YmetSkupg6YgO_Hm6hD4Rg

Thank you so very much. Now I am more confused. Did he actually go out for a coffee run or did he stage this happeneing.. I'm under the impression MF stated there were two cups of coffee found in the room...Could it be he went to get coffee, went inside the room and decided to come back out pretend he didn't have a key..Was he hoping the person who opened the door would go in and find her so he could claim the murder occurred when he was out geting coffee for the two of them.. If what I just posted doesn't make sense, please be gentle, like I stated I have not read everything that has been posted...And I never followed the NH case extensively either.. Only thing I know is what I saw on TV about her disappearance..JMO

 

[suzihawk]

There is a series of nine You Tube videos that capture a TV interview with Stephany's father, with English sub-titles. Only 6 have been posted to date.

This interview took place on June 6, so her father was not aware at the time of more recent details that have come to light this week.

I have added them to the sticky thread:

Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


I will add the other 3 when they have been posted on You Tube.

FLNY... Thank you SO much for posting these videos! They are abolutely riveting. He appears to be a man of such grace and honor. I look forward to watching them again. Thanks again!

 

[cat thief]

First, when I referred to my notions as "outlandish," I was being part sarcastic and part self-deprecating. I would think that was obvious.

Everyone here is accepting that the video footage, which had to have been continuous (almost certainly set up to record any motion detected), consists only of the snippets we've seen. Without seeing the entire, uncut video, we have no idea if anyone else left or entered that room during the crucial time period.

The same thing goes for the "confession" and all the "facts" coming out of Peru, which are being leaked and/or issued by police spokespersons. Peru is a third world country with a less than stellar human rights record- its prisons are perhaps the most brutal in the world. Why anyone would place unfettered trust in their officials is beyond me.

I'm not going to mention my book any more, since evidently some posters find it tacky that I've done so. FYI, it hasn't been pubilshed, and may never be published now, so my motivation for posting here isn't to shamelessly self- promote. (Removed link and have asked unreals to contact Tricia so that she can verify him. Once that is done, Tricia will let us know and there will be no further need to question unreals credentials - Salem) Here is a link to my previously published work, *********. This is not to promote it-it's full of even more conspiracy theories, but is science fiction- but to assure everyone that I am a credible author, if one correlates respectability with publication. If I've violated a forum rule by doing this, I apologize.

One more note on the Holloway book- the research and writing was all done prior to the unforeseen event in Peru, and if the project continues, Stephany's murder will obviously have to be addresed in depth.

I thank those who have treated my unpopular contentions respectfully. I recognize that it is an extreme minority view, and appreciate the opportunity to post my thoughts here.

I think everyone respects your unpopular contentions and it would be polite of you to accept most of our opinions generally being...Of two equivalent theories or explanations, all other things being equal, the simpler one is to be the most likely.

 

[Emeralgem]

FWIW..on the hair/peroxide conversation...I worked for a surgeon for over 20 years and we used hydrogen peroxide daily...I even did his laundry at one spell and used the peroxide to get blood out of his clothing...it is wonderful in removing blood stains so perhaps Joran knew this somehow or maybe the word "peroxide" made him think it would actually bleach his hair....he and Scott Peterson sure screwed that idea up though,lol.

I can attest to the fact that hydrogen peroxide does bleach hair..I learned that back in the 50's when I was a teenager.. I told my parents the sun bleached my hair.. Well in fact it was a contributing factor along with the peroxide..

 

[Unreals]

KS1,

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived. If they got to the island some four hours earlier than reported, then we have no idea what they were doing during that time, and their entire timeline is effected.

As for Joran's false confessions, I think it's difficult to figure out exactly what is going on in his mind at any given moment. I think he enjoys playing games with people, lacks empathy for others, and is not the brightest bulb. I think he kept changing stories about what happened in Aruba for two reasons- each time he was paid to do so, and he knew that he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance, so he had nothing to fear because the authorities were never going to find evidence to convict him.

This time, however, I really don't think he actually "confessed" to anything. If he did, then I believe it was coerced out of him.