Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[texaslb218]

Van Stratten? Van der Stratten? something Stratten? original chief of police in Aruba. JVS's godfather?

 

[songline]

From Amanda's photobucket.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...ee Holloway -Aruba --- Stephany Flores -Peru/

The best part of this photo is the EVIL written across his face.
I hope someone in Prison can TATOO IT ON. in Royal Blue large letters.

 

[fran]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

I believe the ORIGINAL police chief, when this first happened, IIRC, Van Straaten? was Joran's god-father.

Oh, and yes, yes in deed, connections DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

JMHO
fran

 

[3doglady]

Didn't Joran have a god-father that was some big muckity muck? Can't remember if he was a politician, judge or police. I even remember people referring to as 'god daddy'. It was thought that he had something to do with the covering up for JVS and/or Paulus. Gad, I wish I could remember all these million details from five years ago.

Vander Straten (hope I spelled that correct) was the chief of police and Joran's godfather, good friend of Paulus.

 

[suzihawk]

KS1,

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived. If they got to the island some four hours earlier than reported, then we have no idea what they were doing during that time, and their entire timeline is effected.

As for Joran's false confessions, I think it's difficult to figure out exactly what is going on in his mind at any given moment. I think he enjoys playing games with people, lacks empathy for others, and is not the brightest bulb. I think he kept changing stories about what happened in Aruba for two reasons- each time he was paid to do so, and he knew that he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance, so he had nothing to fear because the authorities were never going to find evidence to convict him.

This time, however, I really don't think he actually "confessed" to anything. If he did, then I believe it was coerced out of him.

What do YOU think they were doing for these four hours? Already plotting the big set-up of an innocent teenage boy in order to protect themselves from this horrific family secret? Which, by the way, IF there is some huge secret worthy of this massive frame up, don't you think with all the public scrutiny this family has endured for five years it would have come out by now?

Why haven't we heard him screaming repeatedly from the rooftops, 'I DIDN'T DO THIS!" I think I only heard this once briefly in the very beginning when he tried to pin it on the Chilean police with guns and knives. Are his cries of innocence being covered up? Surely with the massive media coverage this is getting, that would have leaked out from the corrupt system that is coercing him and been reported. Is the press corrupt as well and being paid off?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

KS1,

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived. If they got to the island some four hours earlier than reported, then we have no idea what they were doing during that time, and their entire timeline is effected.

As for Joran's false confessions, I think it's difficult to figure out exactly what is going on in his mind at any given moment. I think he enjoys playing games with people, lacks empathy for others, and is not the brightest bulb. I think he kept changing stories about what happened in Aruba for two reasons- each time he was paid to do so, and he knew that he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance, so he had nothing to fear because the authorities were never going to find evidence to convict him.

This time, however, I really don't think he actually "confessed" to anything. If he did, then I believe it was coerced out of him.

Unreals, the only "timeline" that matters is the timeline established when Natalee left C&C's with the Kalpoes. We absolutely know what Beth and the others were doing: searching for Natalee. The only timeline issues about THAT involve how cavalier and off-hand the Aruban authorities were about searching for her and their recommendation to "wait a few days" and their daughter would show up--what Aruban LE did and did not do and when they did and did not do it.

The only reason for a timeline is a crime. Beth and Dave did not commit any crime in Aruba. No one in any position of responsibility has ever suggested they did. And there is nothing that Beth and Dave did or did not do that could have affected the outcome of Natalee's case, since Joran and whoever helped him had almost certainly hidden the body and probably had finally disposed of it by the time Beth arrived. Therefore, this notion of Beth's "timeline" is an idea that goes nowhere. It doesn't matter because we all know what she was doing: looking for her daughter and hoping to find her alive. An earlier arrival time would just have given her more time to search.

 

[georger]

Could the discrepancies regarding Beth's recollection to her arrival in Aruba not be chalked up to the extreme stress and worry
[/quote]

and how do you jump from arrival time to 'Joran was framed'?

One might as well jump from "planted an Elm tree" to "the Moon is
Lasagna".

 

[songline]

I believe the ORIGINAL police chief, when this first happened, IIRC, Van Straaten? was Joran's god-father.

Oh, and yes, yes in deed, connections DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

JMHO
fran

He needs to stay in Peru for that reason alone, BBM
He has no connections in Peru. the girls father has more clout there then his family will ever have.
PERU, PERU, PERU.
And their prisons are like the wild wild west, he wont be around for very long, his fears about the Peruvian Prisons have good reason.

 

[suzihawk]

I remember this brief confusion over who, what, when, and in what order
things happened - you are referring to. The problem is, no matter which Permutation you
pick. the Kalpoes and Joran were together in the end with Natalie. The
Kalpoes extracated themselves saying they left Natalie with Joran and
Natalie was alive when they left Joran (on the beach?). This leaves Joran
with Natalie. That became The Theory of the Case. It was then alleged
Joran may have called the Kalpoes and enlisted their help disposing of
Natalie's body. The Kalpoes said "NO!". The Kalpoes said they knew nothing more.
Joran said something like "I left Natalie on the beach .... dont know more ...nada".

Now, what any of that has to do with 'Natalie's mother' hatching a plot
to frame Joran, is totally beyong me. Joran is self implicated. His implication does not
rely on Natalie's mother .... or me eating Lasagna on Tuesdays!

In a backward way you might as well say: "Natalie's mother's plot against Joran proves
Natalie's mother wanted to get rid of Natalie so sent her to Aruba where she knew she would be murdered by somebody". That of course is unproven nonsense. But what you are
claiming is logically tantamount to a claim of that nature ...

Your premises have no grounding in reality, don't co-join, and are wrong.

I *think* he's attempting to imply the same with Stephany. That somehow Stephany was expendable just to set-up poor Joran.

 

[3doglady]

Yes, IIRC, his GF was a member of LE of some kind. They even did a little bit of an interview....him stating more or less that JVS was a handful and in fact, did have an explosive temperament.

I think the person who gave the interview was the warden of the jail, not VanderStraten. He allowed video of the jail and did say that Joran had a bad temper.

 

[twirlygirl]

I'd like to make a common sense response to Unreals's theories:

1. No one connected with this case--not Joran, not the Kalpoes, not Joran's attorney, not the Aruban authorities, not Joran's father, not the MB students--has ever disputed that Natalee left with Joran and the Kalpoes. After five years, this is an established fact.
2. There is now tape and documents from the extortion case in which Joran admits he knows where Natalee's body is. In addition to the extortion attempt and the undercover video of Joran admitting he was present when Natalee died, now we have accounts that he is telling Peruvian LE he knows where her body is. While Joran is clearly an habitual liar, one thing is consistent about his statements: he knows what happened to Natalee and where her body is. See point 1.
3. Who benefits from the unfounded claims that Beth Holloway is somehow dishonest or that Natalee had a bad home life?? Only Joran, his family, Arubans who hope to cover up the death of a tourist or the corruption of LE that declined to prosecute the son of prominent man, and others who hope to profit from this case being a mystery. It's never been a mystery. Not even the unwillingness of Aruban LE to prosecute is a mystery. The only things we don't know are how Natalee died and what Joran did with her body.
4. How anyone can look at the evidence already available to the public in Stephany's murder and not conclude that Joran is a killer is beyond me. Even his various attorneys are not proclaiming his innocence. The hope is to get him incarcerated in the most favorable spot. There is a law in the US that allows the US to press for the extradition of those who are suspected of murdering US nationals in other countries. Peru and the US have an extradition treaty, so that he may well face murder charges, as well as extortion charges, in the US. Of course he wants to go back to Aruba; he got away with murder there.
5. Beth Holloway got on a plane and flew to Aruba to find her missing daughter, I don't care a rat's patootie when she got on or off a plane or whether her version of the timeline of her actions fits with one reconstructed by someone who wasn't there and doesn't know her. It doesn't matter if she and Natalee's father was divorced or whether she and Natalee got along at the time of the disappearance. Beth, Jug Twitty, Dave Holloway and their family and friends have fought like tigers to find this girl's body and bring her home. For five years. Beth coughs up thousands of dollars in the extortion sting in the hope of finding the body. Now that yet another family has been robbed of a young daughter at the beginning of adult life, it is ludicrous to rehash these so-called discrepancies about Beth's movements and motives in Aruba.

Unreals, it might be time to look at Joran and ask yourself what there is about his actions in the past five years that suggests he is an innocent man being framed by two governments and two different families.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank YOU!!!

The funny part is...it is very easy to dismiss the eyewitness accounts of people supposedly seeing Natalee get into that car because ehhhh where are these supposed statements in document form? Well the same can be said about this so called immigration document?

I think in all honesty the purpose here isn't to think outside of the box...It is to try and create doubt and/or confusion for those who are easily swayed and are not familiar with either case. Those occasional readers who don't read every single detail or take the time to do research on their own.

I am not one who puts down another person's ideas and/or thoughts but I am also insulted when someone tries to undermine my own intelligence and common sense!

 

[georger]

Hello WS

I saw BH's lawyer on one of the morning shows. He said JVS contacted him first. I had seen(earlier in the thread)that some were stating that BH is the one who put that in motion. Just wanted to add that I heard the lawyer say it was JVS and not BH. If this is wrong, please correct. TIA.

ETA: Speaking of the extortion, just to clarify.

:twocents:

And just in case there is doubt: BH DID NOT send Natalie to Aruba thinking to have her murdered! Joran conspiracy mongers need to find another entrance for their Baumwollernmachinitsch Gestalt!

 

[everyoneneedsavoice]

Funny...I was just reading over some old transcripts and came across an interview discussing the "God Father", VanderStraaten, etc.

Here's what I've found thus far:

<snipped>

JUG TWITTY: Yes, there`s all kinds of rumors about -- you know, that he was Joran`s godfather and all the different -- you know, I don`t know if any of that`s true.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!

JUG TWITTY: I know they were probably...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait! Oh!

JUG TWITTY: That was a rumor...

GRACE: Godfather?

JUG TWITTY: ... that was all over the island, so...

GRACE: Well, how can you find out if it`s true?

from: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

Completely agree. I have been hopeful, that the Peru National Police has been holding back a $#hitload of forensic details such as this one. They don't need to tell the press everything; but I hope to hell they have it.

JVDS' Trip to Hair Salon - in Chile?
I initially thought he might have done this, in his room at the Hotel Tac in Lima Peru hotel room. However, the time stamps on the hotel videos wouldn't seem to allow enough time.

Arica Chile?
JVDS was reported to have entered Chile on Wednesday. Early on in the search for JVDS, Chilean investigators told CNN Chile that JVDS was spotted in Arica, Chile, near the Peruvian border.

In Vina del Mar, Chile?
Perhaps somewhere around the tourist resort of Vina del Mar, before he was arrested. Newspapers report that he was arrested in the taxi cab, while traveling between Vina del Mar and the capital of Santiago. Other news sources report that he was traveling on a highway between Valparaiso and Santiago. JVDS was arrested on Thursday.

I guess this gives him one full day, between Arica and Valparaiso, to rock a new style. Yea, like it really covers up his pathology.

Hope that the investigation provides for a thorough research of these areas, to make contact with anyone that may have assisted him or seen him purchase hair services, or supplies.

He simply walked into a pharmacy and bought a box of blonde hair dye off the shelf. He thought he would be blonde, just like Scott Peterson thought. He didn't realize that his hair was too dark and for him to be a blonde in one step, it would require a double process. Ta Daaaa Tiger Piss Orange!

 

[georger]

Hello WS

Taking everyone's opinion into account...I wonder, if JVS has been framed(all these years for NH)and now for SF, I wonder why he doesn't say so? He has come up with every other story. I wonder why he wouldn't tell that "truth?" I am not of the opinion he was framed. IMHO, JVS is very guilty of both NH's disappearance and of the murder of SF.

:twocents:

Ive never heard him say once: 'Im being framed'.

Forget about Natalie and Flores for a moment. You dont enter the
sextrade in Amsterdam and Thailand as a PIMP selling people's lives
and claim: "I was framed"!

Who is framing Joran van der Sloot for his own actions?

Thjis guy moves to fast to frame!

 

[laura08]

http://www.examiner.com/x-17262-Cel...2-Joran-van-der-Sloot-to-face-Alabama-justice

Joran van der Sloot might soon face charges in an exotic jurisdiction... Alabama. CNN.com reported that US Attorney's office in Birmingham set up a sting where he attempted to collect money from the Holloway family. Joran could now face a legal Alabama slammer!

Lynyrd Skynyrd once asked to "Gimme three steps" The Cnn.com site reports that Van der Sloot asked that the family give him money instead. He would give details for $25,000 in cash and asked for $250,000 in total, the document states.The meeting took place last month, according to the U.S. attorney's office in Birmingham.

To make it worse, van der Sloot gave false information. He showed them a location that could not have held the body. He is also blaming his dead father for some involvement.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I *think* he's attempting to imply the same with Stephany. That somehow Stephany was expendable just to set-up poor Joran.

Oh, my, that would be a horrific injustice to Stephany, Natalee and their families.

I can just barely understand the notion that everyone who thinks Joran killed Natalee Holloway and disposed of her body might be wrong--that Joran is just a confused young man who repeatedly falsely confesses. The idea, however, that a family frantically searching for a daughter whom they hope to find alive jets to Aruba to set up someone that they don't know exists--ludicrous.

The idea that they are somehow so omnipotent as to mind-meld Joran into contacting them to extort money and to find just the right hotel in Peru that would doctor the hotel video system to make it look like Joran killed again while their ninja-like assassins attacked in the few minutes Joran was out for coffee or whatever...and they brainwashed Joran into stealing money and running and planted GHB in a car of someone they never met before...just ridiculous.

I used to think it was possible that Natalee had a bad reaction to the date-rape drug used by Joran or that she slipped on some rocks and died accidently. What Stephany's murder indicates to me is that Joran murdered her and got rid of the body. It might have started with rape and escalated if Natalee started to resist. Or perhaps the absence of semen suggests that Joran has a problem of some sort. We might know a lot more if Aruban authorities had gone through his background carefully and really interviewed girls who had encounters with him before he killed Natalee. But I think he got rid of Natalee's body because he brutalized her as he did Stephany and he didn't have any way to explain it. Just dump the body in the ocean and let the tides take care of the problem.

 

[ks1]

KS1,

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived. If they got to the island some four hours earlier than reported, then we have no idea what they were doing during that time, and their entire timeline is effected.

As for Joran's false confessions, I think it's difficult to figure out exactly what is going on in his mind at any given moment. I think he enjoys playing games with people, lacks empathy for others, and is not the brightest bulb. I think he kept changing stories about what happened in Aruba for two reasons- each time he was paid to do so, and he knew that he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance, so he had nothing to fear because the authorities were never going to find evidence to convict him.

This time, however, I really don't think he actually "confessed" to anything. If he did, then I believe it was coerced out of him.

Thank you for your response. If she arrived in the evening hours, earlier than stated, I would like to know what it was that she is claiming to have done that affects her timeline and by that timeline not being as stated by Beth, contributes to a conspiracy theory. I guess that is what I am not getting, where did she say she went, what did she say she did, and who did she talk to that would have participated in some kind of cover up? Does this new case change your theories at all, and if not, do you feel they are somehow connected?

 

[jjenny]

I think JVS was, did, knew etc all kinds of scrupulous people. International gambling and sex trafficking? No small french fry stuff here. IF the computer theory turns out to be true (?) I think he was scared for his own safety--as always, not for the protection OF someone else...just what may happen to him if "they" were implicated.

Remember there had to be more than just daddy involved in the cover up for him and the mention of the level of corruption down there. Everything didn't happen via a computer link nor did JVS live in a vacuum.

Let me just put it this way. His story was that he went out for coffee, came back and found her on his laptop. Now it appears he did not go out to get coffee, he actually came out of the room with the cups and apparently pretended to be locked out of the room. So what makes you think any part of the story he told the police was the truth? If he did not go out for coffee, then how would she manage to get on his laptop without his permission long enough to find something incriminating-the room is very tiny.

 

[georger]

Joran knew Stephany for a couple of days.
He knew her father was weathy & powerful.
Joran knew Stephany was gay.
He knew she had alot of money on her.
Joran was well aware of Natalee's disappearance anniversary.

Stephany left the casino with girlfriends & came back alone.
Same as Joran...He left with a friend & came back alone.

I have a hard time believing Stephany did not know WHO/WHAT Joran was.
She was very verbal about the dangers of women travelling alone, watching their drinks and not going back to a stranger's room.
It very well could be that she was trying to get some info about Natalee from him. She even told him she was shopping for a laptop computer....Did she ask to see his?

She was having problems with her father because of her gambling and late nights out. Maybe she asked Joran if she could crash there. Opens the laptop and sees something about Natalee & Joran (The 5 yr. Anniversary)

It's hilarious to me that van der Sloot would call 'an International ManHunt
for his crimes' ... "my private life".

Interpol has large file on this fellow -

Joran's private life?