Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[hollyblue]

I don't have a link, but I saved a copy to my computer. Scary, isn't it?

ETA: I see the good Dr. Fessel beat me to the punch with the nice little embellished water mark.

Doesn't it look like a PR shot for a thriller movie. Not being insensitive here....just sayin... how apropo.
I think who ever said this is one for the books was straight on. Frightening.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Haven't quite caught up yet...apologies if this has been posted already.

The Chief of Police, Jan van der Straaten, was reported to be JVDS' godfather.

I found this:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Kjqmna7...s-to-protect-van-der-sloot-cronyism-cover-up/Breaking News … there was cronyism and a cover up in Aruba in the investigation of missing Natalee Holloway.
Really? There was a cover up and obstruction in the case of missing Natalee Holloway in Aruba? Say it isn’t so. How could anyone not have come to that conclusion?Nearly three and a half years later after Alabama teen Natalee Holloway went missing on Aruba, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has finally come out and stated what all of us knew all along. Aruba’s Justice Minister Rudy Croes stated that police commissioner Jan van der Straten obstructed the investigation of missing Natalee Holloway in order to protect his friend Paulus Van der Sloot, the father of suspect Joran Van der Sloot. How could any rational thinking person not have determined that there was an orchestrated cover up in this case when the last three people, Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, were allowed to roam free and two black security guards were immediately arrested to take the fall?

 

[3doglady]

I looked for it recently to see if it was online somewhere but it appears it was published only in Dutch?

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3925483&page=1

Published in the Netherlands in 2007 but never translated into English.

 

[impatientredhead]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

The problem though is that Joran is the accusued and we are not allowed to discuss suspicion of auxillary members unless there is something published (not that publishing makes the opinion more valuable, but it has to be out there already). You just keep making veiled references to Beth's cuplability in her daughter's death, and therefore now in Stephany's.

If you have some ground breaking theory and evidence but can't share it due to your bookdeal, well the timing probably isn't right for the debat then.

 

[Unreals]

I haven't accused Beth of anything; I gave a few examples to those who wanted something specific, and one of those was the official document which recorded a significantly earlier arrival time in Aruba. I think it can be reasonably postulated that she claimed to have arrived later for some reason, and wasn't merely making a mistake because of grief, stress or confusion.

I recognize that others see that much differently.

 

[songline]

Sorry for being critical of sweat lodges - I'd never heard of them before. Sauna's, yes, but sweat lodges, no.

The connection I'm making (I'm weird I guess) is that somebody is trying to sell us a tall story here regarding JVS's self inflicted problems.
Meaning no disrespect to people who utilize sweat lodges, if I felt I were burning up in one, I would immediately exit no matter what some guru
was telling me to do. So, I'm pointing out that someone is trying to sell us a bridge here imo.

That's all - nothing personal about sweat lodges. I'll have to work on my creative writing skills ~ :blushing:.

SOB sells lot of BS. She could not escape the heat IMHO.
I personally think that she became a victim because she won a lot of money in the game they were in together. Money is what he needs since he is a wondering man. I think she did not stand a chance the minute she was behind a closed door with him, I also think that the computer and the Natalee story has nothing to do with this case. He is just using it as a BS reason that she invaded his personal space. While he invaded her entire life.

 

[songline]

I haven't accused Beth of anything; I gave a few examples to those who wanted something specific, and one of those was the official document which recorded a significantly earlier arrival time in Aruba. I think it can be reasonably postulated that she claimed to have arrived later for some reason, and wasn't merely making a mistake because of grief, stress or confusion.

I recognize that others see that much differently.

this time think ha turned into far more then it should have.

 

[georger]

What in the name of heaven could Natalee's family cover up? The only way that what they were doing after arriving on the island could matter is if one of them murdered Natalee. That she failed to return to the hotel that night and failed to get to the airport BEFORE her family found out about it would indicate to a reasonable person that someone on Aruba is responsible for her death.Not her family in another country.

That of course is an inconvenient point to make when no other suspects have turned up, Joran has confessed multiple times in situations where he faced no consequences, and he has now killed again. And confessed again. But this time, the DNA and the video back up the core of the confession. He killed Stephany. We will probably never know exactly when or why, just as we will never know when or why he killed Natalee. Maybe just because he could.

Well the tactic is typical and well known. You attack the most vulnerable link in order to excuse (speaking metaphorically)... the whole Third Reich.

Joran didnt kill anyone. (Hitler didnt start WWII) It was "the cook in
Milwaukee!". How do we know? "He showed up for work 10 minutes late
on March 29th 1939. Case proven. Oh, and buy the book!

 

[cat thief]

I looked for it recently to see if it was online somewhere but it appears it was published only in Dutch?

Probably a smart move. :ban me:

 

[songline]

I found this:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Kjqmna7...s-to-protect-van-der-sloot-cronyism-cover-up/Breaking News … there was cronyism and a cover up in Aruba in the investigation of missing Natalee Holloway.
Really? There was a cover up and obstruction in the case of missing Natalee Holloway in Aruba? Say it isn’t so. How could anyone not have come to that conclusion?Nearly three and a half years later after Alabama teen Natalee Holloway went missing on Aruba, Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes has finally come out and stated what all of us knew all along. Aruba’s Justice Minister Rudy Croes stated that police commissioner Jan van der Straten obstructed the investigation of missing Natalee Holloway in order to protect his friend Paulus Van der Sloot, the father of suspect Joran Van der Sloot. How could any rational thinking person not have determined that there was an orchestrated cover up in this case when the last three people, Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, were allowed to roam free and two black security guards were immediately arrested to take the fall?

And they call it a legal system :waitasec:
It is so infuriating to anyone with a set of morals.

 

[songline]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

Open mind about this SOB - how about trusting our mistrust?
Frankly my dear I much rather do that.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

Real facts:
1. Natalee Holloway is still missing after 5 years. Her body has never turned up. Joran has confessed to being present at her death and disposing of the body. Neither of her parents knew him before or were on the island when she disappeared.
2. While "we" haven't heard from Joran, Peruvian LE has and has charged him with murder in the case of Stephany Flores, who was found dead in his room. LE says they have video, DNA and other forensic evidence. Joran confessed. We have seen the video.
3. Two young women are last seen with JVDS. One is never seen again and is presumed dead, in part based on Joran's statements; the other is found dead in his room.

The only other facts likely to emerge are the ones that come out at the trial, where the prosecutors lay out the whole video, the DNA, the other forensic evidence (hair, fiber, blood stain patterns, and expert testimony of the time and manner of death.

 

[georger]

There's no doubt in mind, that JVDS has been surrounded by some pretty nefarious characters in the last 5 years. I find that statement to be of "mob" mentality.

Now that you bring this up, isnt that exactly what John Gotti said
to the FBI:

"It's my private life!"

 

[KR2tonenow]

And they call it a legal system :waitasec:
It is so infuriating to anyone with a set of morals.

Right, and think if JVDS was 17 when this happened and his adult role models are corrupt officials...scary to think what else JVDS witnessed and was apart of. Makes sense that he moved onto sex trafficking/murder...and god knows what else. :snooty:

 

[bhammom]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

Unreals, I clicked on the link to your book (before it was removed by the moderator) and couldn't help but notice that your name "Unreals" is the same as the title of your new book. I am afraid that all your conspiracy talk is just a thinly veiled attempt to advertise and promote this book. You say you would like everyone to be open-minded to discussion but your derogatory theory against Beth Holloway contradicts the facts. Perhaps you should find another message board to peddle your nonsense and promote your book.

 

[Kat]

I also saw reference to him beating one of his younger brothers. I think these things were word-of-mouth references from 5 years ago from people on Aruba. I don't think they've actually been published.

I read a fascinating article once about sociopathy (unfortunately I would never be able to find the link again). In it the doctor said that one theory is the person is born with some sort of deficit which is then either encouraged or discouraged by family influence and the culture they live in. He said that although the percentages of these people is the same world wide, you see more sociopathic behavior in the US because the culture has come to promote selfishness, and less in certain asian countries where sacrifice for the family is promoted. His theory was that the family/culture had a strong effect because sociopaths will try to fit into their surroundings somewhat. This was his also his reasoning for the difference between common criminals and "snakes in suits" - the direction of the behavior being influenced by IQ, socioeconomic background and education. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it was very interesting food for thought.

This sounds very much like the theory that Martha Stout presents in her book "The Sociopath Next Door". The first 9/10ths of the book is an excellent read. I have issue with the last 10th because she comes to the conclusion that Sociopathy (what ever word you choose to use for it APD..etc) is genetic and IIRC she supports finding a way to test for that disorder in order to track a newborn through childhood and adulthood---in other words create a label for that newborn and by tracking them prevent crime by institutializing them before they can commit a crime.

Like I said the first 9/10ths are well written and supported by studies (however, some of those studies are open to other interpretations). I'm going to check out the author someone else here suggested R. Hare and see what he offers.

All the above is just my vague recollection of the ending of her book and my most humble opinion.

I'm posting this for those that are interested in the possible APD diagnosis for JVDS.

 

[BloodshotEye]

A few thoughts about JVDS' money situation
I clicked over to Peggy G's timeline (great work Peggy!). And I am looking at the date for this $10,000.00 cash payout. And this $25K wire transfer. Fine.

Fast forward, to one of our theories, that JVDS supposedly stalked SFlores, with an intent to steal her winnings. Fine.

Did anyone "blink", when it was reported that he took $300.00 (not sure if that is U.S. or Peruvian Nuevo Soles, which is 0.3517 US dollars per sol); her jewelry, & credit cards? Not a very big "reward" for the risk attached to the commission of another murder.

I also find it odd, that blew through 10K cash, in about 2 weeks or so, if we are to believe that he didn't have any money on him, save the 300 bucks. Yea, he paid for a taxi cab to Chile. I'm talkin' 10K. Where did it go?

I am very curious about JVDS' where/on what, JVDS spends his money:
1. What's the activity on his account, to which the 25K was wired?
2. What else did he buy, since he was given the 10K cash, and 25K wired.

 

[suzihawk]

Joran wrote a book?!

Lol! Apparently so, here you go...http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3925483&page=1

Just when I think nothing else can shock me in this case...

 

[twirlygirl]

I haven't accused Beth of anything; I gave a few examples to those who wanted something specific, and one of those was the official document which recorded a significantly earlier arrival time in Aruba. I think it can be reasonably postulated that she claimed to have arrived later for some reason, and wasn't merely making a mistake because of grief, stress or confusion.

I recognize that others see that much differently.

I would really like to see this OFFICIAL DOCUMENT you mention. Because at this point the mere mention of an official document doesn't make it official or factual. It only makes your point moot. Because you are not backing it up by producing such OFFICIAL DOCUMENT.

Speculation only doesn't support your theory it only makes it more unbelievable.

I can speculate til the cows come home and it doesn't make what I say any more truthful and/or believable.

Speculation doesn't create a theory it creates doubt. Which is essentially what your theory wants to put out to the masses. I for one will not be bamboozled by such nonsense.

Poor Joran...he happens to be the only one who's mere happen stance ends in WRONG PLACE...WRONG TIME...NOT!!! Coincidence absolutely NOT. Fool me once shame on YOU Fool me twice shame on ME! What makes this more unbelievable is that this man/child isn't even someone important enough to be at the bottom of my shoe but YET he's being framed? Hmz I don't really think so.

I didn't just fall from a tree sorry.

 

[georger]

Yes it was a two part series.

The first being "How To Get Away With Murder" :Jumpie:

The second "How Not To Get Away With Murder" (in publication from a Peruvian jail cell) :argue:

I have to say I missed that epic of modern literature.
But I never finished reading Mein Kampf either (tossed is aside
in my college dorm in favour of Playboy and Clarke's "City and the
Stars" .... so Im uneducated. :dance: