Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

[BloodshotEye]

I think I prefer to discuss the case at hand, rather than supply the research/arguments for someone else's book.

...going back to reading Peggy G's great threads...

 

[georger]

Beth Twitty's arrival time and actions in Aruba are the least significant things even remotely connected to this case. By the time BT arrived, her daughter was already dead and buried...by none other than....JVDS or one of his helper-bees.

Doesn't matter if Beth parachuted in to Aruba, came with carrier pigeons, or on the back of a camel, at 6pm or 7pm or 9pm or 11pm or even the next day. The ONLY thing that matters is NH was in the company of JVDS and the Kalpoe brothers, which is verified by ALL of them, and was never seen again.

THAT is the only evidence that is salient here. Everything else is just an attempt to obfuscate the case and try to make it into something complicated. And it's really very simple:

Boy preys on young women in bars (has a reputation for doing so), boy meets girl (NH), boy leaves with girl (NH), boy goes to the beach with girl (NH) and then.... girl is never seen alive again. Boy says he was with girl but <insert one of many lies about what happened next > by boy.

One beautiful statement of fact. Yours should be framed!

 

[georger]

IRRC Natalee's aunt asked Van der Straaten about the investigation when she was in Aruba. He told her Natalee was dead and when she asked him how he knew, he replied (paraphrasing) "because I'm the investigator and you are not." Natalee's aunt discussed this on GVS but it has been several years ago and I don't have a link.[/quote]

""because I'm the investigator and you are not.""

Amazing. There is the patronising Colonial attitude in a nutshell.

 

[suzihawk]

To those of you who have responded respectfully to my admittedly unpopular theorizing, I express my appreciation. To those who think my thoughts are unworthy of discussion, no one is forcing you to discuss them.

In Peru, nothing has been "made public." All the "evidence" against Joran, outside of the video snippets, which prove nothing other than that he entered the room with a girl who is purportedly the one who was later found dead in the same room, did the strange thing with the coffee and the hotel employee, and then later left the hotel, have consisted of ever changing leaks and pronouncements from Peruvian authorities. In my view, the authorities in Peru have little more credibility than Joran does.

We have heard nothing from Joran, and only sporadic comments from a few attorneys- I'm not even sure who his lawyer is at this point. Certainly any good defense attorney would have been questioning the wildly varying accounts of the crime scene, and be confident of raising reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, on that basis alone. Of course, that would happen under our system, but I'm not certain what role a defense attorney plays in the Peruvian courts; Joran's fate will be decided by three hooded judges.

I'd just like to gently suggest that we all keep an open mind about this until the real facts stop changing. All any of us should be interested in is truth and justice.

Purportedly?! Really?... <blink blink>

His attorney is Maximo Altez. I'm trying not to be snarky here, but you really should try to keep up.

It's true, JVDS hasn't exactly been in a position to hold a presser. I hear a media advisor has been retained, though. So we have to rely on what half the world's media is reporting. They can't ALL be wrong or a part of the conspiracy, can they?

Hooded judges? Link please.

I like to think I keep an open mind, but...

 

[hollyblue]

This sounds very much like the theory that Martha Stout presents in her book "The Sociopath Next Door". The first 9/10ths of the book is an excellent read. I have issue with the last 10th because she comes to the conclusion that Sociopathy (what ever word you choose to use for it APD..etc) is genetic and IIRC she supports finding a way to test for that disorder in order to track a newborn through childhood and adulthood---in other words create a label for that newborn and by tracking them prevent crime by institutializing them before they can commit a crime.

Like I said the first 9/10ths are well written and supported by studies (however, some of those studies are open to other interpretations). I'm going to check out the author someone else here suggested R. Hare and see what he offers.

All the above is just my vague recollection of the ending of her book and my most humble opinion.

I'm posting this for those that are interested in the possible APD diagnosis for JVDS.

JFYI. R. Hare's theories are based a lot on the writings/findings of Cleckley. I've read The Mask Of Sanity and it is very informative and enlightening.

ETA Link: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

 

[Woe.be.gone]

SOB sells lot of BS. She could not escape the heat IMHO.
I personally think that she became a victim because she won a lot of money in the game they were in together. Money is what he needs since he is a wondering man. I think she did not stand a chance the minute she was behind a closed door with him, I also think that the computer and the Natalee story has nothing to do with this case. He is just using it as a BS reason that she invaded his personal space. While he invaded her entire life.

songline, I'm on the same page as you are. I'm not blaming the girls/victims of JVS at all. Back in the day, I could have been one of them. They did nothing wrong; they were young and unaware of how really bad some people are. As Stephany's dad has said, he failed to teach his daughter about the evil in the world - as to be on guard, not to trust everyone blindly, etc.

My comment is only directed at the alternative theory being proposed on these threads. That said, young and old, beware of evil doers and know that they really do exist.

The other day someone posted here that she is teaching her teenagers that some people are bad, have ulterior motives, will do wrong to you to benefit only themselves. Her point was that if one grows up in a law abiding family that tries to instill honest/good values, you may be ill equipped when you meet the wolves so-to-speak. For me, when I was young, it would never dawn on me that somebody was lying just for the sake of it. But for some reason, in my case, I couldn't be led by my nose either. Don't place your soul in another's hands completely; beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Those messages should be taught also imo (not that the young will always listen either).
Fate is mysterious imo.

 

[georger]

I haven't accused Beth of anything; I gave a few examples to those who wanted something specific, and one of those was the official document which recorded a significantly earlier arrival time in Aruba. I think it can be reasonably postulated that she claimed to have arrived later for some reason, and wasn't merely making a mistake because of grief, stress or confusion.

I recognize that others see that much differently.

Ritto, mate.

 

[Roze]

KS1,

I think the earlier arrival time in Aruba is very significant, because it effects everything else that Beth and co. supposedly did after they arrived. If they got to the island some four hours earlier than reported, then we have no idea what they were doing during that time, and their entire timeline is effected.

As for Joran's false confessions, I think it's difficult to figure out exactly what is going on in his mind at any given moment. I think he enjoys playing games with people, lacks empathy for others, and is not the brightest bulb. I think he kept changing stories about what happened in Aruba for two reasons- each time he was paid to do so, and he knew that he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearance, so he had nothing to fear because the authorities were never going to find evidence to convict him.

This time, however, I really don't think he actually "confessed" to anything. If he did, then I believe it was coerced out of him.

You have a book to sell, and therefore I question the theories you've presented. So far I've seen a lot of innuendo and piffle -- nothing substantive.

You seem to believe Joran is an innocent victim and BH is evil incarnate.

Good luck with those book sales.

 

[newone]

Stephanie was the winner in that card game, he lost.... what if he just wanted to rob her of her loot?
He is no good, he is calculated, he is a bum. she may have fallen prey to him without ever having been near his computer or knowing anything about Natalee.

I agree....

Here's a link to SF's father commenting on his daughter's uneven gait....I believe it was a case of 'wanting her money' plain and simple

http://translate.google.com/transla...u-hija-sea-deportado-al-peru.html&sl=es&tl=en

 

[Paintr]

http://gothamist.com/2010/06/12/joran_van_der_sloot_charged_with_mu.php

Earlier posters were trying to decifer the tattoo that Joran had written on his chest. Many thought it was his name.


According to this article ....

"van der Sloot's chest tattoo is reportedly the Thai words for "No worries."

 

[RR0004]

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/9009/13731271/Van_der_Sloot_Tells_All/full/

Oh, my...it sounds like Joran's idea of a good time.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Details about the Hotel Tac

Formal Name: Miraflores Hotel Tac
Address: Av. Republica de Panama 616, Lima Peru.

It's a pretty seedy looking place. Here are a few photos from the Huffington Post. Really a crap place. When SFlores drove up with JVDS, she should have dropped him off. "catch up with you tomorrow, dude". Man, I'd sleep in a bathroom, before I'd stay here. SFlores could have slept in her jeep.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harmon-leon/crossing-paths-with-van-d_b_601350.html

 

[suzihawk]

Right, and think if JVDS was 17 when this happened and his adult role models are corrupt officials...scary to think what else JVDS witnessed and was apart of. Makes sense that he moved onto sex trafficking/murder...and god knows what else. :snooty:

I think God (and us) already knows what else, unfortunately.

He was taught that whatever bad thing he's done or might happen to him... (remember him proclaiming, "something bad has happened")... whatever it was would be 'handled' so he had no need to worry.

 

[georger]

Unreals, I clicked on the link to your book (before it was removed by the moderator) and couldn't help but notice that your name "Unreals" is the same as the title of your new book. I am afraid that all your conspiracy talk is just a thinly veiled attempt to advertise and promote this book. You say you would like everyone to be open-minded to discussion but your derogatory theory against Beth Holloway contradicts the facts. Perhaps you should find another message board to peddle your nonsense and promote your book.

It wont get Joran our of prison, in any event. His goose is cooked.

Unreals has no power over Joran whatever! Nor any other power over
anything else either. Winds are often heard in thenight then gone as
the Sun rises. Unreals "is" Unreal.

 

[georger]

I would really like to see this OFFICIAL DOCUMENT you mention.

It does not exist. It is Unreal. Dont you get that? Rest easy.
This is all hogwash.:angel:

 

[KR2tonenow]

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article...ells_All/full/


A Van der Sloot conviction may seem like a slam-dunk, but there are still potential caveats. The Dutch consulate in Lima says Van der Sloot's confession was coerced, and his mother Anita, who spoke with him briefly by telephone, told a Dutch radio station that his interrogation has been "barbaric." In 2009, Peru was singled out by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor for human rights abuses involving "abuse of detainees and inmates by police and prison security forces" and "harsh prison conditions."

Why pick Peru to committ murder?

 

[Eileen O'B]

I don't purport to speak for unreal, but the reference to "hooded judges" is most likely a reference to Lori Berenson, the recently released American who was convicted 15 years ago in Peru. I've read the three judge panel was hooded.

 

[teedie2]

Skipping a lot of posts I haven't read to voice my aggravation with all the misinformation we get. I was so happy to have my curiosity satisfied by a caller to Nancy Grace a couple of evenings ago .. She asked what Joran was wearing when he left the hotel room to get the coffee. The correspondent's reply was "The white shirt." Wasn't that Jean C who responded?

Anyway, now that we have seen the video of him leaving for coffee, he is wearing the striped shirt. I mean "a" striped shirt. Is it the same striped shirt he was wearing when he finally departed the hotel?

The time that he "left" and was playing knock-knock with the door, did he leave then to go for coffee? He really did go to a store and get two cups of coffee at 8 a.m., didn't he? Why do I get so confused?

If Joran worked as hard at a real job as he has at lying, he wouldn't be where he is today.

BTW, is he still eating the same meals as the guards, or has he hit the real menu for prison life in Peru yet? Will LE wait until he is sentenced before feeding him slop?

 

[suzihawk]

http://gothamist.com/2010/06/12/joran_van_der_sloot_charged_with_mu.php

Earlier posters were trying to decifer the tattoo that Joran had written on his chest. Many thought it was his name.


According to this article ....

"van der Sloot's chest tattoo is reportedly the Thai words for "No worries."

Oh my... I can't help it, but that made me laugh. The irony...

 

[Unreals]

I don't have a book about the Holloway case to sell- at least yet. I only brought it up because I thought it would be of interest to those posting on a message board about the case. Obviously, the murder in Peru negatively impacted the potential for the book to ever be published, and if it is, much more will need to be researched and written.

I have used the poster name "unreals" for years on various forums. Yes, I thought it was a clever way to get the title of my novel out there, and perhaps people might stumble upon it and be interested. I usually didn't indicate that it was a title, however, unless the forum allowed you to leave a link (and only a few do that).

I actually posted a handful of times here on the Jon Benet Ramsey forum, some months ago. FYI, in that case I postulate no conspiracy, except one to shield a wealthy family from being investigated properly.

The references I made to the immigration document and the testimony of the students were only in response to requests that I stop being so vague about what was in the book. I never intended to do that, preferring simply to analyze the evidence in the Peru case on this thread. I think there is a lot of room for doubt there, without even mentioning the Holloway case.