Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

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  • #141
I would like to know the truth of the dog story too. I read (not in a link) he tried to blame it on a neighbor kid but he was ultimately sent to anger management classes. It seems to me to be a big red flag and IMO anger management classes was the least of what he needed, but his parents didn't follow through and he never got any kind of psychological counseling, from what little bit I have read. IIRC the story come from a childhood friend.
Would love to see the story verified by a credible and nameable source.
jmo

abbie
 
  • #142
It was a couple of days before they caught him. So the $5000 soles (I think that's what they call them) was really $1700.00 in US dollars. They say he caught a bus, probably got something to eat. He also stopped one night for a room in Chile (where he dyed his hair) and paid the drivers to get him across the boarder. That may have been a lot if he tried to avoid a passport check at the border. That could explain why they only found him with $300.00 (what I read).
 
  • #143
Hmm. Well, that's an odd way to go about things. I don't see how whatever BH did or didn't do or say in any way changes what can be proven that VDS did do or say- or I should say, lie about. BH could be a pathological liar who is mean to cats and hates unicorns, or other unlikeable traits, but that does not change any of the documented facts of what VDS did/said in either case, nor in other unsavory things like attempting to sell women in Thailand.

I know who I would prefer to meet in a dark alley.

But anyway, I'm wondering how you are going to be able to write a book about anything, really, unless entire chuncks of evidence are left out. Like the VDS knocking on an open door, realizing it's open, and then shutting it, knocking again, and then getting the desk to open it for him. How are you going to explain him purposefully locking himself out? Unless you somehow plan on speaking directly with VDS, I can't see how that can be addressed. I like, and believe in some conspiracy theories. I just don't like conspiracy theories for the sake of writing a book. In fact, I've realized that I don't think it's in good taste for anyone to be mentioning that they are writing a book (no matter what the subject), or hinting that they know information that will only be found in their book, on a board- and specific thread that deals with the murder of at least 2 women. It doesn't seem appropriate to me at all. Good luck with the book- it will be interesting to see if any of your theories pan out.

But that's just my thoughts.

Different topic- I have now read numerous theories of why VDS killed Stephany, many who claim that possibly he tried to rape her, and then got 'furious' because she was on her period.

That makes no sense to me. A woman certainly can be raped while on her period. Not only that, but honestly, I really have only known a couple guys who claim to not like having sex while someone was on their period, or to think that was a good reason to not have sex, unless the woman was not feeling well. I think most guys will take it when they can get it. I find it hard to believe that someone who was capable of killing a woman would have stopped raping her because she was on her period. Or that she said no to the rape 'because' she was on her period, and that angered him enough to kill her.

I am going to guess the truth will be the simplest explanation- that they went to his room to play poker on the laptop, that they argued about something, possibly his involvement with NH, and that he then beat her to death and robbed her. Based on how little it took to anger him enough to throw a glass of wine in someone's face, she probably said some nasty things to him as she attempted to leave, and he went ballistic on her. She was not reported as having been sexually assaulted, and was known to be a lesbian- I don't believe sex was a motive in this case at all.


I think she was killed because Joran needed and wanted her money. You can see her little white change purse in the overhead video over the poker table, she lays it down on the table after opening it and either putting something inside or taking something out.
How her pants came off, I don't know. Was she bisexual? Did he yank her jeans off and cause her to slide off the bed onto the floor, either laying on her stomach or laying on her back? So much for the tennis racket, which we were led to believe was practically dripping with blood when they found it, now it turns out no blood on it at all. So, did he bash her head on the wooden bedframe? His story of women falling and accidently hitting their head is getting old...Natalee on a rock and now Stephany on the bed. Simply not beleiveable. I do think he had already killed her when he left for the coffee, etc. He seemed to be thinking this crime out ons step at a time and not well thought out, at that. The incident with the door, that was very key I think. He wanted the hotel staff to walk in his room ahead of him and discover Stephanys body, "obviously killed while he was buying coffee", except he didn't know about the hall video camera at the time he formed this loose plan. JMO. That camera will do him in, am sure his atty has watched the whole tape by now and knows darn well nobody entered that room but Joran. And Stephany certainly didn't commit suicide. I suspect no conspiracy theory, although it would make an interesting fiction book I suppose. A lie, a cover up, and allowing Joran to come and go from Aruba unchecked seems to have set up another opportunity for him to kill again. If left to his own devices, I think he would have killed yet again, and again.

I think he is where he belongs and I am sure the streets are a little safer now that hes not walking them. JMO

abbie
 
  • #144
Good morning... Catching up on the overnight posts...

I am still waiting to see the video where he first goes out for coffee and then returns and goes into the room and then comes out again with the coffee and starts his act that he forgot his key and has to get the TAC employee to let him in. I want to see the complete tape of when he returns and then goes out again to see how long he was in the room.

I'm beginning to wonder if JVS actually did go out for the two cups coffee as initially reported. The media could have gotten wind of the video that we've all now seen and it somehow morphed into this interpretion through the mis-reporting and translation issues that have been so common. Just a thought.

I have been totally unable to locate anything using google that indicates a source for the ''alleged'' killing of the family dog by JVDS

The thing about a rumor/fact such as this is that it would hardly be the type of item that would be reported in the news media as to provide confirmation. It came out back in the initial days when Natalee first went missing in Aruba. I thinks it's very possible it came from personal friend(s) or acquaintance(s). Aruba is a relatively small island where everyone knows everyone. I tend to think there is at least some truth to it. It didn't come out of nowhere, IMO.

snipped for length and pertinent info:

At that point, had "received an email stating" I'll kill mongolito "which are colds, the murder of Natalee Holloway, the young American who was accused of having murdered in Aruba in 2005.

activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Felcomercio.pe%2Fnoticia%2F493043%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-simulo-como-coartada-no-tener-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

Mongolito is described in the Urban Dictionary as '🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬'.
 
  • #145
So if this was a set-up that means somebody planted her credit cards on him or he found her dead and decided to take her credit cards so he could use them to escape from the murder he didn't commit.

If you look at the security videos It would be evident by his demeanor if he was framed or set-up. I think he looks more like someone trying to cover his tracks as opposed to someone HORROFIED:flashbak: he has just found a body and will surely be blamed for a murder.

I suppose she could have been killed after he stole her credit cards and left the hotel. The only thing they would have to do is plant her blood:drac: on his clothes inside his luggage in a moving cab.

The cab drivers could have been in on it.
And after planting the credit card on him, they somehow used mental telepathy to get him to the bank and attempt to use the card.
 
  • #146
Sorry if this has already been pointed out and discussed.
I was re-watching the casino video and was wondering why Joran has his left arm/hand under the table like he is trying to hide something. I noticed this on the above shot of the table at the 1:24 mark. Shortly before Stephany sits down beside him at the 2:00 mark it looks like he switches whatever he has in his hand from his left hand to his right hand then puts his right arm/hand under the table.
I also noticed Stephany rubs her eye. A signal? Were they running a scam?

Link to casino footage:

http://www.larepublica.pe/node/271311/01#fotos

I've watched this video over and over again. At the 0:35 mark, it looks to me that she hands him something during the handshake. Then watch his hands in the overhead shots from the handshake onwards. To me it looks like Stephany passes him something during the handshake. Then he opens his hand and places it on the table....it looks like it may be poker chips. He keeps fiddling with the chips with his right hand, then moves his right hand under the table and is bent way over. He stays in that position for awhile. Something about the handshake and then his stooped posture there has really been bothering me....maybe they were teaming up for something...or maybe I'm just getting paranoid over this whole thing!!!
 
  • #147
First, when I referred to my notions as "outlandish," I was being part sarcastic and part self-deprecating. I would think that was obvious.

Everyone here is accepting that the video footage, which had to have been continuous (almost certainly set up to record any motion detected), consists only of the snippets we've seen. Without seeing the entire, uncut video, we have no idea if anyone else left or entered that room during the crucial time period.

The same thing goes for the "confession" and all the "facts" coming out of Peru, which are being leaked and/or issued by police spokespersons. Peru is a third world country with a less than stellar human rights record- its prisons are perhaps the most brutal in the world. Why anyone would place unfettered trust in their officials is beyond me.

I'm not going to mention my book any more, since evidently some posters find it tacky that I've done so. FYI, it hasn't been pubilshed, and may never be published now, so my motivation for posting here isn't to shamelessly self- promote. (Removed link and have asked unreals to contact Tricia so that she can verify him. Once that is done, Tricia will let us know and there will be no further need to question unreals credentials - Salem) Here is a link to my previously published work, *********. This is not to promote it-it's full of even more conspiracy theories, but is science fiction- but to assure everyone that I am a credible author, if one correlates respectability with publication. If I've violated a forum rule by doing this, I apologize.

One more note on the Holloway book- the research and writing was all done prior to the unforeseen event in Peru, and if the project continues, Stephany's murder will obviously have to be addresed in depth.

I thank those who have treated my unpopular contentions respectfully. I recognize that it is an extreme minority view, and appreciate the opportunity to post my thoughts here.
 
  • #148
O/T
As for books....being for reference.......my husband was interveiwed for a TRUE story and when it was edited and the book went to the publisher, it made my husband look like Rambo..........not true!
so between the author (who was innocent) and the editor..........who wanted to sell the book, it was not controlled. Sensationalism.......................misleading many times.
 
  • #149
Amazon link does not work for me. Is there another way to reference your work?




First, when I referred to my notions as "outlandish," I was being part sarcastic and part self-deprecating. I would think that was obvious.

Everyone here is accepting that the video footage, which had to have been continuous (almost certainly set up to record any motion detected), consists only of the snippets we've seen. Without seeing the entire, uncut video, we have no idea if anyone else left or entered that room during the crucial time period.

The same thing goes for the "confession" and all the "facts" coming out of Peru, which are being leaked and/or issued by police spokespersons. Peru is a third world country with a less than stellar human rights record- its prisons are perhaps the most brutal in the world. Why anyone would place unfettered trust in their officials is beyond me.

I'm not going to mention my book any more, since evidently some posters find it tacky that I've done so. FYI, it hasn't been pubilshed, and may never be published now, so my motivation for posting here isn't to shamelessly self- promote. Here is a link to my previously published work,(Removed link and have asked unreals to contact Tricia so that she can verify him. Once that is done, Tricia will let us know and there will be no further need to question unreals credentials - Salem) Here is a link to my previously published work, *********. This is not to promote it-it's full of even more conspiracy theories, but is science fiction- but to assure everyone that I am a credible author, if one correlates respectability with publication. If I've violated a forum rule by doing this, I apologize.

One more note on the Holloway book- the research and writing was all done prior to the unforeseen event in Peru, and if the project continues, Stephany's murder will obviously have to be addresed in depth.

I thank those who have treated my unpopular contentions respectfully. I recognize that it is an extreme minority view, and appreciate the opportunity to post my thoughts here.
 
  • #150
I've watched this video over and over again. At the 0:35 mark, it looks to me that she hands him something during the handshake. Then watch his hands in the overhead shots from the handshake onwards. To me it looks like Stephany passes him something during the handshake. Then he opens his hand and places it on the table....it looks like it may be poker chips. He keeps fiddling with the chips with his right hand, then moves his right hand under the table and is bent way over. He stays in that position for awhile. Something about the handshake and then his stooped posture there has really been bothering me....maybe they were teaming up for something...or maybe I'm just getting paranoid over this whole thing!!!


I also thought that was an awkward looking handshake where something was passed between them. I thought JVS made an unnatural movement with his hands/arms after the shake.
 
  • #151
Ok I love a diiference of opinion. Like the case of Jon benet Ramsey. There are many theories as to whole killed her and why. The evidence could go a lot of different ways, but it is hard to ponder the innocence of jvs with the lack of clear evidence or a sound explanation as to why he is innocent! It's all vague innuendos and just a stating of doubt regarding Peruvian le and the media or mysterious aruban drug trade. IMO we need more information if you believe jvs is innocent. With all due respect, if you are writing a book and cannot or will not get into details on here then of course you will get a negative reaction for many posters.
 
  • #152
Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.

Mornin' Unreals... What do you attribute to the time difference alleged in your first paragraph?

I distinctly recall it being reported that at least one of Natalee's friends last saw her get into the car with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. Even yelling at her to come back with Natalee responding in some fashion that I can't recall at the moment. Joran himself hasn't denied being the car with her, making out in the back seat and going to the beach to see sharks, going to the lighthouse, leaving her on the beach, etc.

What 'family secrets' could be so overwhelmingly horrid that the Holloway family would pursue in framing Joran for five long years? You've also alluded to the fact it could have to do with the drug trade in Aruba. So, are you implying that the Holloways are involved somehow in that as well? Or are these two separate theories?

I have to go along with the others. The evidence is simply overwhelming that Joran alone is responsible. Not to mention that a set up of the magnitude you're alleging is out of the realm of believability.
 
  • #153
Mods, will we soon get a forum for JVS???
In great need to break this thread down.
thanks
 
  • #154
Mods, will we soon get a forum for JVS???
In great need to break this thread down.
thanks


Yes! I felt uncomfortable derailing the discussion by replying about Unreals publications. It would have been more appropriate to have a different thread. JVS forum? Please and thank you.
 
  • #155
Olay, I'll give just a few examples of why my research focused so much on the Beth/Mountain Brook connection. First, we have an official immigration document that shows Beth went through customs in Aruba at 7:45 p.m., after initially learning Natalee was missing. In her book, and every interview she's ever given, Beth states that she arrived at app. 11:00 p.m. This is a huge discrephancy, and it throws off her entire timeline of what allegedly happened after she landed on the island.

Second, it has been stated countless times that Natalee "was last seen" entering a car with Joran and the Kalpoes. The problem is, if one analyzes the statements from her friends/students at the bar, one discovers that NONE of them is on the record as having seen her get in a car with anyone that night. Only two people reported even seeing her leave the bar, one said "looked like with Joran" and the other one described her being with the Kalpoes, but said nothing about Joran. Despite this, Beth immediately seemed to focus on Joran and Joran only, and would go on to declare in a t.v. interview that "20-40" of Natalee's friends had seen her get in the car with Joran and the Kalpoes.

While the rumors and allegations against Joran, leveled by Beth and others over the years, almost invariably cannot be substantiated when one looks for sources, the ones about Beth (thought not all of them) are a lot easier to source. Again, not accusing Beth of being involved in Natalee's disappearance. I don't think she set out to be dishonest, but people sometimes become desperate when they're trying to conceal embarrassing family secrets. Imo, Natalee had a very unhappy home life.

So, with my view of Beth colored by what I've been researching, it was only natural for me to instantly suspect that something was fishy about the murder in Peru. Joran is a very hard guy to defend, even if, like me, you don't believe he's a murderer. He has done a lot of stupid things, showed little empathy for others, and appears willing to do almost anything for money. All in all, hardly a sterling character, but someone I firmly believe was framed.

Finally this morning I was able to read all your posts and I appreciate you viewing this case way outside the box rather then running around bouncing off the walls.

In your post here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5276891&postcount=16"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #5[/ame] , you indicated why nothing was ever mentioned about the clerk going to the room on Sunday, May 30th when the clerk opened the door for Joran.

Early on, when this story first broke and hit the airwaves, a reporter interviewed the desk clerk, inside the hotel, when the reporters were still able to get into the hotel. The desk clerk was devasted that he never saw anything when he opened the door for Joran.

I know we have the link for this interview, however it will be a major hunt to find it. I will, throughout time, search for the link so that you can view the video.

I know that the video of Joran coming out of the room with the coffee seems strange, however I see it this way:

Once Joran murdered Stephany, of which, is obvious, Joran needed to come up with a plan and he decided to stage himself actually coming back with the coffee. Unfortunatley this didn't work for him as someone apparently showed up in the hallway, so he turned around to appear as if he was locked out of the room coming back with the coffee. Thinking on his feet, he decided to get the clerk to open the room, and perhaps hoping the clerk would see Stephany laying on the floor, while Joran is holding the full coffee cups in his hand.

If the clerk had seen Stephany, Joran probably would have said: "she was alive when I left for the coffee."

It would help if the media would release the video of Joran going out of his room to go and get the coffee, and what he was wearing, and showing him returning with the coffee.

It has been reported, by a local American reporter (not Jean C), but that of a male, that Joran wore the white shirt. That alone makes me feel that there is video of Joran leaving for coffee.

Thanks again for all your posts and I will continue to follow what you write and keep an open-mind, as I too, look at things way outside the box. Normally when I get all the pieces, I rarely sway away from my thoughts.
 
  • #156
First, when I referred to my notions as "outlandish," I was being part sarcastic and part self-deprecating. I would think that was obvious.

Everyone here is accepting that the video footage, which had to have been continuous (almost certainly set up to record any motion detected), consists only of the snippets we've seen. Without seeing the entire, uncut video, we have no idea if anyone else left or entered that room during the crucial time period.

The same thing goes for the "confession" and all the "facts" coming out of Peru, which are being leaked and/or issued by police spokespersons. Peru is a third world country with a less than stellar human rights record- its prisons are perhaps the most brutal in the world. Why anyone would place unfettered trust in their officials is beyond me.

I'm not going to mention my book any more, since evidently some posters find it tacky that I've done so. FYI, it hasn't been published, and may never be published now, so my motivation for posting here isn't to shamelessly self- promote. Here is a link to my previously published work, (Removed link and have asked unreals to contact Tricia so that she can verify him. Once that is done, Tricia will let us know and there will be no further need to question unreals credentials - Salem) Here is a link to my previously published work, *********. This is not to promote it-it's full of even more conspiracy theories, but is science fiction- but to assure everyone that I am a credible author, if one correlates respectability with publication. If I've violated a forum rule by doing this, I apologize.

One more note on the Holloway book- the research and writing was all done prior to the unforeseen event in Peru, and if the project continues, Stephany's murder will obviously have to be addresed in depth.

I thank those who have treated my unpopular contentions respectfully. I recognize that it is an extreme minority view, and appreciate the opportunity to post my thoughts here.

I have no doubt the surveillance video IS continuous and that the authorities have it in their possession. But, as you can imagine, it would be difficult, not to mention silly, to publish the entire 3 days worth of tape from the time she entered his room until the body was discovered just to prove to a point to the naysayers.
 
  • #157
suzihawk,

Yes, we've all heard that her friends saw her getting into the car, they shouted at her, she shouted something back, etc. The problem is, when you examine their individual statements, you find that none of them testified to that. If you can come up with one who is on the record saying he/she saw her get into a car, let me know, because I couldn't.

The fact that an official document shows Beth got to Aruba about four hours earler than she claimed is obviously very important. First, it establishes that she didn't tell the truth about something that, on the surface, seems perhaps innocuous. However, there had to be a reason why she did that; obviously she knew whether it was light or dark outside, for instance, when she got there, since she described seeing the lights of Aruba in the dark (when it would have been light outside at the time she actually arrived). It also throws off her entire timeline, and in fact the timeline we've all relied on when sorting out the facts in the Holloway case.

Family skeletons can be the most important thing in the world to those who would be most embarrassed by them. As I said, it doesn't seem that Natalee had a very happy home life. As I also said, I don't think Beth intentionally set out to lie, or do anything wrong. I can only guess at the motivation behind a lot of the things she's said and done over the years. I bear no animosity towards her or her family. On the other hand, the attitude she and some of her fellow Mountain Brookies adopt can best be expressed by the email I received, from one of Beth's best friends, shortly after the story in Peru broke. It said simply, "so what's your 'take' on Joran now?" A taunting, childish snipe- and I received no reply when I responded with my personal doubts about the details coming out of Peru.

Anyhow, I've talked too much about a project that will have to be reworked considerably in light of what's happened over the past week and a half. I think I'll confine my posts to just speculating about the "evidence" coming out of Peru.
 
  • #158
  • #159
Not sure why the link didn't work. I'll try again: [...]

Your first link didn't work because you have two http's in the address. When I cut out the first http, it worked. Thanks for providing that.
 
  • #160
UNREAL, sorry the Hollaway family and NH are not the ones that should be talked about here.
They are not the problem.
IMO, JVS murdered NH and probably others.
JVS is the discussion here.
IMO, he was never tricked by anyone.
JVS is responsible ...........not NH, her family or Stephany, family or cops.
 
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