Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #12

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  • #161
Good morning everyone...I just went to Peru.com and saw a new video (new to me) of Joran being fingerprinted and given his prison blanket. Sorry if it has already been posted, just wanted to share.
http://www.peru.com/noticias/
 
  • #162
suzihawk,

Yes, we've all heard that her friends saw her getting into the car, they shouted at her, she shouted something back, etc. The problem is, when you examine their individual statements, you find that none of them testified to that. If you can come up with one who is on the record saying he/she saw her get into a car, let me know, because I couldn't.

The fact that an official document shows Beth got to Aruba about four hours earler than she claimed is obviously very important. First, it establishes that she didn't tell the truth about something that, on the surface, seems perhaps innocuous. However, there had to be a reason why she did that; obviously she knew whether it was light or dark outside, for instance, when she got there, since she described seeing the lights of Aruba in the dark (when it would have been light outside at the time she actually arrived). It also throws off her entire timeline, and in fact the timeline we've all relied on when sorting out the facts in the Holloway case.

Family skeletons can be the most important thing in the world to those who would be most embarrassed by them. As I said, it doesn't seem that Natalee had a very happy home life. As I also said, I don't think Beth intentionally set out to lie, or do anything wrong. I can only guess at the motivation behind a lot of the things she's said and done over the years. I bear no animosity towards her or her family. On the other hand, the attitude she and some of her fellow Mountain Brookies adopt can best be expressed by the email I received, from one of Beth's best friends, shortly after the story in Peru broke. It said simply, "so what's your 'take' on Joran now?" A taunting, childish snipe- and I received no reply when I responded with my personal doubts about the details coming out of Peru.

Anyhow, I've talked too much about a project that will have to be reworked considerably in light of what's happened over the past week and a half. I think I'll confine my posts to just speculating about the "evidence" coming out of Peru.

Again... thanks for your responses. I, too, appreciate an alternative view. I think it's most interesting to look at things from a completely opposite viewpoint than my own.

Could the discrepancies regarding Beth's recollection to her arrival in Aruba not be chalked up to the extreme stress and worry she must have been going through by that time? Surely she was terrorized beyond belief by then. It seems like such a small matter unless one suspects a motivation for her lying, which obviously you do. So, I have to ask again, what you think that motivation was?

Everyone has family skeletons. An unhappy home life seems hardly a reason to stage an over the top, extremey complicated plan to frame him, not only for Natalee's murder, but for Stephany's murder in Peru, IMO. It had to have been one hell of a skelton to go to such elaborate measures. Do you think she (Beth) really is Hitler's sister (tongue in check) or something equally as sinister?
 
  • #163
Good morning everyone...I just went to Peru.com and saw a new video (new to me) of Joran being fingerprinted and given his prison blanket. Sorry if it has already been posted, just wanted to share.
http://www.peru.com/noticias/

Great find! Can you also stick a copy in the Media thread, thanks.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106482"]Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
  • #164
Good morning everyone...I just went to Peru.com and saw a new video (new to me) of Joran being fingerprinted and given his prison blanket. Sorry if it has already been posted, just wanted to share.
http://www.peru.com/noticias/

Great, I didn't see him being fingerprinted and shackled!!
 
  • #165
Thanks for posting this video Passion Flower. I noticed his beard growth on his face. Also, I assume he was given something to hold up his britches as they seemed to be staying in place. I pray that he never ever has the opportunity to hurt anyone ever again.
 
  • #166
Thanks for posting this video Passion Flower. I noticed his beard growth on his face. Also, I assume he was given something to hold up his britches as they seemed to be staying in place. I pray that he never ever has the opportunity to hurt anyone ever again.

Thanks should go to Karma-girl, she found it.
 
  • #167
Now I know what the pages highlighted in yellow that I have seen on various videos are...duh, lol! It's his confession!!!
http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/493708/...llo-estrangule


(now if I could only afford 600.00 for Rosetta Stone to learn Spanish I would be in great shape, lol)
 
  • #168
  • #169
I am further behind than I thought, I guess, because I wasn't aware that Stephany's father actually owns the casino at which they were gambling. Wow, did Joran ever pick the 'wrong' victim this time...

I wonder if Joran knew that Stephany's dad owned the casino? There was no way the casino employees were not going to observe who the boss' daughter was leaving with.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/0...presso-near-peru-womans-mutilated-corpse/?loo
 
  • #170
I am further behind than I thought, I guess, because I wasn't aware that Stephany's father actually owns the casino at which they were gambling. Wow, did Joran ever pick the 'wrong' victim this time...

I wonder if Joran knew that Stephany's dad owned the casino? There was no way the casino employees were not going to observe who the boss' daughter was leaving with.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/0...presso-near-peru-womans-mutilated-corpse/?loo

More misinformation now being reported as fact.
The casino is owned by a friend of her father.

It was reported who owns it early on, several rough translations of the original articles went around, and now it has morphed to her Dad owning it.

You are not behind, just paying attention and catching contradictions.
 
  • #171
Hello WS :)

I saw BH's lawyer on one of the morning shows. He said JVS contacted him first. I had seen(earlier in the thread)that some were stating that BH is the one who put that in motion. Just wanted to add that I heard the lawyer say it was JVS and not BH. If this is wrong, please correct. TIA.

ETA: Speaking of the extortion, just to clarify.

:twocents:
 
  • #172
I am further behind than I thought, I guess, because I wasn't aware that Stephany's father actually owns the casino at which they were gambling. Wow, did Joran ever pick the 'wrong' victim this time...

I wonder if Joran knew that Stephany's dad owned the casino? There was no way the casino employees were not going to observe who the boss' daughter was leaving with.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/0...presso-near-peru-womans-mutilated-corpse/?loo

Thanks, smart blonde! I can't keep up with this quick moving thread with working and taking care of 3 kids, lol! I didn't know that about Stephany's dad either and that is very interesting...Feeling the need for a summary of the facts as we know them. Any of my ambitious WS'ers up to the task? Can't blame a busy girl for trying, lol!
 
  • #173
More misinformation now being reported as fact.
The casino is owned by a friend of her father.

It was reported who owns it early on, several rough translations of the original articles went around, and now it has morphed to her Dad owning it.

You are not behind, just paying attention and catching contradictions.

Okay- almost missed this one too since we're on a new page. Thanks impatientredhead!
 
  • #174
does anyone know when or if we will see tox reports on Stephanie?

the notion that JVS has any kind of mental deficiency is ridiculous, he is a player and a compulsive liar. ...I beleive as a narrcisitic sociopath, JVS objectifies all women and beleives they are all prostitutes in the making, or lesbians who are evil and enjoy rejecting him, or think they can reject him, in which case he will show them otherwise.

I think he was on the lookout for a girl to kill and groomed her to be his victim. I am sure he will try to lie and blackmail Steph's parents too, for the details of her death, as we have already seen.

as i watch the video of Joran being shackled , he looks at the camera for a moment and I see excitement and pleasure on his face. He loves the attention and the power of withholding all he knows and using it for attention and favors. He loves doing this to his mother, too and wants her to be bankrupt and miserable for shutting his trust fund.

he is a true sociopath and sadist, A babyfaced sadist!
 
  • #175
I found that odd how he looked at the camera during the shackle application....I guess I am thinking how I would be hiding my face in shame and screaming and crying for my mis deed,lol...that is too rational for him I guess.LOL
 
  • #176
Hello WS :)

Taking everyone's opinion into account...I wonder, if JVS has been framed(all these years for NH)and now for SF, I wonder why he doesn't say so? He has come up with every other story. I wonder why he wouldn't tell that "truth?" I am not of the opinion he was framed. IMHO, JVS is very guilty of both NH's disappearance and of the murder of SF.

:twocents:
 
  • #177
I forgot to mention this but, in one of the videos I saw when they were bringing him out of the van into the prison and he is the only one who is not covering his head ( more narcissism) he appears to me to have a possible black eye.

perhaps he wanted photogs to see that...he loves to play victim.
 
  • #178
I just posted a note about Joran telling Beth Holloway things that Natalee said when she was drunk and questioned whether it triggered memories of that same night 5 years before.

Here is the quote from the book:
According to Joran, after they left Carlos'n Charlie's, Natalee asked to see sharks.
He told her there were no sharks, but she insisted. So they drove to the lighthouse.
On the way over, Joran says he and Natalee made out in the backseat, but she was
"so drunk," she kept falling asleep and waking up.

Joran relates some crazy things Natalee supposedly said — that she's a lesbian,
that she's related to Hitler.

There are only 3 pages but if you'd like to refresh some early memories here is the link:
http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/family/real/natalee-holloway-daughter-beth-holloway

I am just now catching up and stopped to read this article written by Beth Holloway. Thank you, doobiedoo52. I had not read this when it was first out.

This article really touched me and showed Beth's desperation in trying to find Natalie. It has angered me all over again that this is how the first hours in Aruba went. The authorities there are dispicable. They let the trail go cold.

I am glad Joran is in one of the world's worst prisons and I feel that the Kalpoe brothers need to get what is coming to them for being complicit in Natalie's disappearance. Unfortunately, it has to be left up to karma to get the two brothers. They know what they did in helping Joran. Paulus also.

I just have to hope for justice. Who could possibly watch the videos of Stephany's case and feel that Joran may be innocent or framed? Who could possibly know how the investigation went in Natalies' case and think Joran was framed?

Dear Lord, please let there be justice for Natalie and Stephany!
 
  • #179
does anyone know when or if we will see tox reports on Stephanie?

the notion that JVS has any kind of mental deficiency is ridiculous, he is a player and a compulsive liar. ...I beleive as a narrcisitic sociopath, JVS objectifies all women and beleives they are all prostitutes in the making, or lesbians who are evil and enjoy rejecting him, or think they can reject him, in which case he will show them otherwise.

I think he was on the lookout for a girl to kill and groomed her to be his victim. I am sure he will try to lie and blackmail Steph's parents too, for the details of her death, as we have already seen.

as i watch the video of Joran being shackled , he looks at the camera for a moment and I see excitement and pleasure on his face. He loves the attention and the power of withholding all he knows and using it for attention and favors. He loves doing this to his mother, too and wants her to be bankrupt and miserable for shutting his trust fund.

he is a true sociopath and sadist, A babyfaced sadist!

BBM
ITA And find that if you use the bolded part of your post only-we could slip it into some of our other threads of sociopaths in the news!! I'll never be able to truly understand the pleasure they (sociopaths) derive from causing such misery to those around them! :banghead:
 
  • #180
Sociopathic Personality

As we said earlier, all these sociopathic traits start surfacing during childhood, but parents tend to ignore them as minor mistakes, and the child would mend his ways as he grows up. Sociopathic tendencies in children like habitual lying, being manipulative, cruelty to animals, are more likely to worsen with time as the child grows up. Other than these traits, sociopaths often tend to associate themselves with criminal behavior. These people get unknown sort of pleasure watching someone tortured or reading about criminal activities. In quite a few cases, they themselves are associated with several criminal cases, including rape and molestation.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/sociopathic-traits.html
 
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