Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #15

[Nana46]

Not a coincidence to me. And I will never believe robbery was primary motive; only a secondary benefit. Father is powerful. Wants him in forever - murder for robbery the way it will be laid out - regardless. He murdered her, and that's it as far as they're concerned (additionally, he's done it before).

No different than Castro Castro. What - weapons in here? Course not! What inhumane conditions? See and sniff yourself!

But if he had just blown through all the money he had gotten from the atty. in Aruba would he not be almost desperate by the time he met SF? No money, desperation....he meets her and realizes she has money? I am still shocked how quickly he seemed to admit he killed her....I would have thought he would have held out and denied it till the cows came home....I dunno

 

[Nana46]

Thank you for that hall picture FLNY.....I did not realize it was a long hall..I think I had in my mind there were steps immediately in front of the room.

 

[FLNY]

I think it was robbery because he got her pin #(s) before killing her. She wouldn't have given that info to him voluntarily, imo.
The pants/shirt off - like someone else mentioned - after he killed her he was frantic trying to set up a crime scene (attempted rape) which was part of the phoney coffee trip.

In his state of mind, he was trying to get out of being accused - he just did a very poor job.

I think her clothes had to have been off before he murdered her, since there's only one small blood stain on her shirt and on her jeans. JMHO

 

[Lexington]

Here are photos of the camera outside his room. To me, it's not obvious that it's a camera. I agree that he didn't realize it right away, but then spotted it in the 'fake' coffee video when knocking on the door and comes back a second time to look at it to make sure, with that panic-y look on his face.

My thought is that he thought it was a smoke-detector until he took a second closer look and then realized what it was.

 

[suzihawk]

And... once again I've stayed up WAY too late reading about this case. Eyes are blurred and drooping...

Night night, fellow sleuthers! :seeya:

 

[Bobarino]

But if he had just blown through all the money he had gotten from the atty. in Aruba would he not be almost desperate by the time he met SF? No money, desperation....he meets her and realizes she has money? I am still shocked how quickly he seemed to admit he killed her....I would have thought he would have held out and denied it till the cows came home....I dunno

You are right Nana. Robbery is the clear motive to me. Someone else even pointed out, a few days ago here, her injury to her fingers seemed like keys or something were ripped out of her hand that she did not want to surrender.

Consider even the floor camera that was just posted above. If he came to kill or rape, he'd have taken notice of that camera before, as he was there for a few days. I think he did not plan to kill or even harm anyone on this trip. And sadly if the monster had won money--instead of being made broke by his stupid losses, Stephany would be alive today. She likely resisted his robbery and he has a very short fuse, whatever you want to call it, no impulse control. And he is a monster, once he assualted and damaged her, he made sure not to stop until she was no longer breathing.

Then he thought of all sorts of plans. As I already have written, removing her pants was either to stage a rape (by someone else) or as part of the process of removing her body--perhaps in pieces a la Dexter. But he doesn't like to work, so that thought probaby left him soon thereafter.

His seeming surprise at seeing the camera, and then going through that phony spiel indicates he didn't plan on committing any crimes in that foreign country with a different language, severe jail system, and (presumably) no type of protection from Daddy's "friends." I think it was sheer coincidence as far as the anniversary (unless there are very deep conspiracy things afoot with this second murder), and like I wrote, if he won money instead of going broke--and then being turned down by most or all of his friends--Stephany would likely be alive and well now.

 

[Beatrice]

Has it been established if Stephany was stabbed also?

 

[Lexington]

An earlier post stated that Joran had stolen Stephany's pin number. Is this fact or rumor? I don't remember reading or hearing anything about this.

 

[krowdkat]

Has it been established if Stephany was stabbed also?

I think (based on the police report diagrams of Stephany's injuries) it is very apparent Stephany wasn't stabbed. JMHO

 

[krowdkat]

An earlier post stated that Joran had stolen Stephany's pin number. Is this fact or rumor? I don't remember reading or hearing anything about this.

Lexington, I think I read that he confessed to using her ATM card in the English version of his confession. But don't quote me. LOL

 

[epiphany]

Re the camera: He's in his 20's - grew up with technology, etc. Don't believe he would ever mistake for a smoke detector. He's also well traveled. Cameras all over in many other countries. Also, he's a casino dweller. His life experiences and age point to him being aware there are cameras in the hostel/hotel he's staying at.

 

[krowdkat]

Re the camera: He's in his 20's - grew up with technology, etc. Don't believe he would ever mistake for a smoke detector. He's also well traveled. Cameras all over in many other countries. Also, he's a casino dweller. His life experiences and age point to him being aware there are cameras in the hostel/hotel he's staying at.

With all due respect, Epiphany, he has many many addictions (IMO) and he had his parents to make excuses and cover his tracks up until now. If you look up the true definition of a narcissicist, you will find that they are usually responsible for their own undoing. Joran was a ticking time bomb poster child for narcissism. IMHO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Not a coincidence to me. And I will never believe robbery was primary motive; only a secondary benefit. Father is powerful. Wants him in forever - murder for robbery the way it will be laid out - regardless. He murdered her, and that's it as far as they're concerned (additionally, he's done it before).

No different than Castro Castro. What - weapons in here? Course not! What inhumane conditions? See and sniff yourself!

Totally agree, the only way to get 'life' in Peru is for them to lay it out like a murder in the course of a robbery, so that's the way its going to play out. I think we're all in agreement that this guy needs to stay behind bars, he's to dangerous to have out on the street, so robbery it is.

 

[Bobarino]

RE The Camera--that's the whole point, he didn't care to even notice, if there was one or not, because he wasn't planning on committing any crimes.

Maybe he even thought he could scam Stephany out of money without having to resort to threats and physical harm and destruction. Maybe he even offered who knows what, and she turned down anything he had to offer. I don't think he planned this to happen in any way, shape or form. But it escalated probably rapidly when she wouldn't give him any money despite all the scams or offers he made.

Then maybe not even having money to fly out of there, he got physical and went for the robbery. She resisted, maybe even knew some martial arts, which given his size and nature, it would have been better if she just gave up all her money. Unless he simply went all out from the onset of the robbery, once he saw that she couldn't be scammed.

But I have previously given a scenario based on his admission of her being slammed into a wall, that he may have held her up agaisnt a wall when he struck her massively. I believe there were no knives involved, and I think all bleeding came from head wounds. Her other wounds, I do not believe were bleeding wounds, but I can't be sure, as I cannot make out what it says in the illustration of the wounds.

 

[Bobarino]

This is based on the review of the Tac Sac Motel by JVDS [but not really] that can be found at this link previously found and posted at WS:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...8753-Hotel_Tac_Sac-Lima.html#CHECK_RATES_CONT

Review of Castro Castro Accomodations by Joran Van Der Sloot, 6/17/10
As relayed to our correspondent in America, Bobarino

· My ratings for “Hotel” Castro Castro

o Value: “Such a deal. I got in for free! I might just never leave!”

o Meals: “I eat what the very top people here eat. And no extra charge to me! Didn’t get food poisoning, or Giardia or ameobiasis, yet! I can’t say that for other places I’ve been to!”

o Rooms: “Hey I got a private Room! You can’t beat that!

o Location: Center of Hell, er… I mean Lima,

o Cleanliness: “Moma told me I might need to learn how to take care of my room one day. I shoulda listened.”

o Service: “Hey, I haven’t been raped yet.”

o Sleep Quality: “Hey, I haven’t been raped yet.”

o Do you plan to return: “First I gotta get out of here.”

o Would you recommend this place to a friend: “Hey, I haven’t been raped yet. And you can play cards with some very interesting people that I have a lot in common with. So yeah, why not.”

o SPECIAL NOTE: In the event of my demise here, change my recommendation to a no! And donate my remains to science. No, I was only kidding. Can I get money for them? Oh I’d be dead, oh just contact my Mama.

o Did I do it? How much have you got? Oh, that’s right I’m dead now… [Silence]

 

[txsvicki]

I figure Joran confessed because there was no other option given to him. There's got to be some reason the guards at the prison don't wear guns and the prisoners don't attack or riot. I believe that they don't wear guns because there's no reason to lie, but they must be very feared and not afraid to assert themselves with criminals. Hopefully Joran won't pay someone to help him with a jail break.

 

[newone]

http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/date-rape-drugs.cfm

this is just one link regarding date rape drugs -- the drugs leave the body quickly (no results in SF's report doesn't mean for certain IMHO that drugs were not administered sometime during the evening). IMHO she didn't fade as quickly as JVDS had hoped. By removing her clothes etc perhaps he was 'thinking' (loose term there) that should she awaken police would have considered it simple sexual assault (he left no Dna indicating him -- UNTIL he attacked her). I believe it all went wrong (for some uknown reasons) but I believe robbery and $ was his motivating drive.

 

[epiphany]

With all due respect, Epiphany, he has many many addictions (IMO) and he had his parents to make excuses and cover his tracks up until now. If you look up the true definition of a narcissicist, you will find that they are usually responsible for their own undoing. Joran was a ticking time bomb poster child for narcissism. IMHO

Agree, Krowd. He's a narcissist and more. Just don't believe that primary motive was robbery. It's the day of NH's death. Singer or brother of singer (don't recall which) who spoke with VDS that evening at Atlantic City Casino stated in interview that VDS was clearly looking for a woman that evening. Stated that VDS's spoke in a vulgar manner - implying his goal was of a sexual nature.

 

[newone]

Agree, Krowd. He's a narcissist and more. Just don't believe that primary motive was robbery. It's the day of NH's death. Singer or brother of singer (don't recall which) who spoke with VDS that evening at Atlantic City Casino stated in interview that VDS was clearly looking for a woman that evening. Stated that VDS's spoke in a vulgar manner - implying his goal was of a sexual nature.

I remember reading that and thinking ''good cover''......pretending to be a bad boy (which we know he was too)...

 

[Bobarino]

Well some things to just consider.

He's what 22, he's probably looking for a woman every night. And he's probably always vulgar, at least in discussing that with a buddy.

And especially in a country that he might think he is a big cheese or something. He is delusional probably about numerous things, thinks he should be James Bond playing AND WINNING all the time around the world, with lots of women desiring him.

The video of him in Thailand trying to con some local females into "working" for him and his buddies was very instructive. And it shows how quick and smooth he can be.

When one young woman balks at "working" 10 hours straight. He immediately says, IIRC,

"Hey most of that time you will just be sitting down and waiting--not f-----g. And you know if I could make a few grand a night by f------, I'd sure do it!"

Did you all see that video? It's on youtube.

Anyway it shows how quick and smooth he can be. It makes a joke here that some are claiming he's autistic, he's a sociopath, etc., etc.

He's an inveterate liar, conniver, and cannot tolerate being turned down, and I believe goes berserk all too readily under certain circumstances, that likely involves chemical imbalance. (He's on cigarettes, caffeine, alcohol, weed, who knows what else.) But I have written here, that does not give him a pass, he should be locked up for the rest of his life, because his poor impulse control coupled with his depraved indifference for human life makes him a life-liong danger, especially to women.

Likely what happened to Natalie was somewhat similar to what happened to Stephany, except sex probably was the motive with Natalie. And maybe he had grabbed her by the throat as well. But the common factor may be that she turned him down--despite being drunk or drugged (insufficiently for his purposes) and maybe hit him too. And maybe he does go bersek if a woman dares to hit him, and/or resist him.

Going back to Stephany, as I indicated earlier, when she turned down some money scam from him, maybe he then offered somehting sexual which might have gotten a laugh out of her, given the circumstances. And then he grabbed her. Once she did not acquiesce, and instead maybe struck out at him, he went all out on her. His body though, at arrest in Lima, did not seem to show any marks. (Unless she kicked his privates. or such) But this type would go ballistic just from having someone flail at him.

And the matter of drugs in Stephany seems to be that the police were definitive on this issue--saying that she had only amphetamines in her. If ruffie wrappers were in her car-- to me that says he may have tried to get her to take that and she said hell no. Remember, he can be smooth, he may have taken one out of its wrapper to try to get her to take it. When someone dies, metabolism shuts off, and if it were in her system, labs should be good about finding it, if death is only a short (how many hours after ingestion I can't be sure of, but I think there would be at least traces for a full day or so) after alleged ingestion of it.