Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

[CBTampa]

LOL, I should have translated.
Call 1; A few days before the death of Stephany in Lima, he called home. He sounded strange and hurried, says Anita. He said he was being followed. Together him and a girl were stopped and robbed. Two men showed him pictures of Natalee. He was very afraid and confused.
Was it true? Or was it only in his head?

Call2: The day before his arrest, she spoke to him again. I said: Joran, you are being searched international. A girl is dead. Where are you? He was on his way to Chile. He sounded afraid. A girl dead?. Then he remained quiet for a bit and said:It is not Stephany? No, not Stephany! I told him to turn himself in.

That is my translation, not robotic. Hope it helps.

Also in the interview Anita states that she wants to start a foundation to help Joran but also the other inmates in prison. Did not see that mentioned in American excerpts.

Seems from this, Joran had already started thinking about a robbery gone bad. IMO

 

[mck16]

After catching up on my reading here since last night, I just have a couple of comments. Part of Stephany's finger was NOT missing. Here is the portion of the transcript from NG's June 7th show:

Let`s go down the body. Broken neck, blunt trauma to the torso. And as you see in this figure, that blunt trauma goes from just below the shoulders all the way down to the navel. Dark red bruising on the inside of her right elbow, the inside. What is that? Guarantee you that will end up to be thumbprints of her attacker grabbing her like this by the arms with such force, it leaves bruising on the inside of the elbow.

Put that diagram back up, please, Dana. As you can see, on her right arm, a circle on the dark red bruising. On the finger, her right index finger it looks like to me -- no, forefinger -- there is an open wound, likely sustained during a struggle. What does this say? This says she was fighting

She is merely correcting her original observation of which finger had the wound on it.
I agree with whoever said earlier about the green bruising--it is old bruising--possibly soccer injuries to the feet. This also may explain her awkward walk.I actually feel that the injuries detailed could be exactly as VDS described the attack.
If they were sitting on the bed with the wall to their backs on the computer. For some reason-whether it's an email or not, he ends up elbowing her to the nose. He is quite a bit larger than her and his elbow lifted could be at her face level. Head and nose wounds bleed profusely I might add. He turns and begins choking her probably dragging her down on to the bed. The choking could produce enough pressure to dislodge an already injured eye. The mattress could have been moved when dragging her down onto the bed. Then he throws her to the floor and she hit the bed frame on her way down. He removes his shirt and goes to finish her off with smothering. Whatever amount of clothing she has on has blood on it as well as any laying close by. The position of her dead body produces the rest of the discoloration as the blood settles after death. The finger wound I still think could have been a key ring or something in her hand she tried to use for defense. It was probably forceable ripped from her finger.

As far as the robbery part or wanting money from her, I'm sure that was the original attraction she posed to VDS. He had several days to investigate her family finances. I still think it was an impulse killing--an act of rage. I don't think he had any intention of killing her--she would be a cash cow to him alive, if he got into her good graces. Too late now. All JMO.

I was just about to post the same thing as your statements I bolded. I totally agree. Old bruises and probably from soccer.

jmo

 

[suzihawk]

LOL, I should have translated.
Call 1; A few days before the death of Stephany in Lima, he called home. He sounded strange and hurried, says Anita. He said he was being followed. Together him and a girl were stopped and robbed. Two men showed him pictures of Natalee. He was very afraid and confused.
Was it true? Or was it only in his head?

Call2: The day before his arrest, she spoke to him again. I said: Joran, you are being searched international. A girl is dead. Where are you? He was on his way to Chile. He sounded afraid. A girl dead?. Then he remained quiet for a bit and said:It is not Stephany? No, not Stephany! I told him to turn himself in.

That is my translation, not robotic. Hope it helps.

Also in the interview Anita states that she wants to start a foundation to help Joran but also the other inmates in prison. Did not see that mentioned in American excerpts.

I wonder if AVS reported these calls to the police since she was aware there was an international manhunt on for him.

 

[mck16]

Very early on a statement came out that Joran was checking the tides and the water currents implying that he was going to dump the body in the water. My question: where was he searching, on his laptop is the assumption I had. But, they said for many days they could not look at his computer because they were waiting for a court order or some such reason.

How do they know he was checking the tides and currents? Is this just another case of poor reporting? And if it is, how can we believe anything that has been reported? tia

 

[rotterdam]

Seems from this, Joran had already started thinking about a robbery gone bad. IMO

I am not sure. He made the call to his mother and he already sounded pretty weird to her. Anita might have gone by the day that Stephanys' death was reported (Wednesday) as a couple of days before her death. Call still could have been made after the actual death. Possibly on Sunday or Monday. Just IMO.

 

[rotterdam]

Very early on a statement came out that Joran was checking the tides and the water currents implying that he was going to dump the body in the water. My question: where was he searching, on his laptop is the assumption I had. But, they said for many days they could not look at his computer because they were waiting for a court order or some such reason.

How do they know he was checking the tides and currents? Is this just another case of poor reporting? And if it is, how can we believe anything that has been reported? tia

May be it was on paper and he printed it out.

 

[epiphany]

I am not sure. He made the call to his mother and he already sounded pretty weird to her. Anita might have gone by the day that Stephanys' death was reported (Wednesday) as a couple of days before her death. Call still could have been made after the actual death. Possibly on Sunday or Monday. Just IMO.

BBM: Thanks for pointing that out. Very good point.

 

[mck16]

May be it was on paper and he printed it out.

Good idea but I don't think he was carrying around a printer and I doubt the room had one. Probably more speculation to try to tie it back to the similarities to NH. JMO

 

[suzihawk]

MSNBC Video Report - AVS Speaks Out

[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37808580#37808580"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

 

[i.b.nora]

I wonder if AVS reported these calls to the police since she was aware there was an international manhunt on for him.

Maybe yes, maybe no. The Peruvian Police knew fairly quickly on Wednesday, once they knew who they were looking for, that Joran had crossed the border into Chile on Monday and that he had been spotted in Arica, Chile. So, once Anita knew about the international manhunt, I think the police were already hot on his trail.

 

[rotterdam]

Very true. I think the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose the support of their family, especially their mother, and even though they deserve it. MOO

Another interesting part of the telegraaf interview of Anita

Snipped
Ik zal hem niet opzoeken in zijn cel, ik kan hem niet omarmen. Maar hij moet wél een eerlijk proces krijgen. Hij is psychisch ontspoord. Dat moet toch meewegen?”

Translated;
I will not visit him in his cell, I can not embrace him. But he should get an honest trial. He is psychological derailed. That should have some influence on his trial?

She also mentioned that her two other younger sons wanted her to let Joran go.
They were horrified at some of his interviews, full with lies/fantasy stuff, he gave in exchange for money. Especially to Greta van Susteren.

 

[FLNY]

LOL, I should have translated.
Call 1; A few days before the death of Stephany in Lima, he called home. He sounded strange and hurried, says Anita. He said he was being followed. Together him and a girl were stopped and robbed. Two men showed him pictures of Natalee. He was very afraid and confused.
Was it true? Or was it only in his head?

Call2: The day before his arrest, she spoke to him again. I said: Joran, you are being searched international. A girl is dead. Where are you? He was on his way to Chile. He sounded afraid. A girl dead?. Then he remained quiet for a bit and said:It is not Stephany? No, not Stephany! I told him to turn himself in.

That is my translation, not robotic. Hope it helps.

Also in the interview Anita states that she wants to start a foundation to help Joran but also the other inmates in prison. Did not see that mentioned in American excerpts.

[bolded by me]
I wonder if he told his mother he was robbed in the hopes that she'd send him money! By all accounts, that's about when he started calling friends asking for money.

 

[mck16]

Another interesting part of the telegraaf interview of Anita

Snipped
Ik zal hem niet opzoeken in zijn cel, ik kan hem niet omarmen. Maar hij moet wél een eerlijk proces krijgen. Hij is psychisch ontspoord. Dat moet toch meewegen?”

Translated;
I will not visit him in his cell, I can not embrace him. But he should get an honest trial. He is psychological derailed. That should have some influence on his trial?

She also mentioned that her two other younger sons wanted her to let Joran go.
They were horrified at some of his interviews, full with lies/fantasy stuff, he gave in exchange for money. Especially to Greta van Susteren.

I also remember in one of her statements she said he told her that he could not remember what he had said that he had lied so much. He didn't know the truth from the lies.

 

[epiphany]

Appears that Mother has begun the painful journey. Her timetable, not mine. One step forward, two steps back. Wouldn't wish any of it on my worst enemies (Goes without saying - same for victim's family.).

 

[texaslb218]

MSNBC says "Van Der Sloot Case" at 8 PM CST tonight. I can't tell if it is a new report or repeat.

 

[epiphany]

I do not BTW believe he is mentally ill>hence his adjustment to prison as per whomever is observing him. Do believe he is likely a psychopath.

ETA: I will be quite surprised if we hear otherwise when/if we receive information about psychiatric exams.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I can't help comparing Anita with Cindy....and let me tell ya, Cindy's coming off a very poor second.

 

[panthera]

Another interesting part of the telegraaf interview of Anita

Snipped
Ik zal hem niet opzoeken in zijn cel, ik kan hem niet omarmen. Maar hij moet wél een eerlijk proces krijgen. Hij is psychisch ontspoord. Dat moet toch meewegen?”

Translated;
I will not visit him in his cell, I can not embrace him. But he should get an honest trial. He is psychological derailed. That should have some influence on his trial?

She also mentioned that her two other younger sons wanted her to let Joran go.
They were horrified at some of his interviews, full with lies/fantasy stuff, he gave in exchange for money. Especially to Greta van Susteren.

I can't imagine what his brothers have to go through with his notoriety; I'm sure it isn't easy for them. MOO

 

[nosysw]

GREAT POST :innocent:
While denial is not necessarily willful. If someone is told EXMPLE your husband was seen with another women it is no longer unconscious, if you are told your kid is drinking it is no longer unconscious.
Joran was in trouble many, many times in his life and his parent just got him out of trouble now that is consciously avoiding reality and it is a willful denial.
I agree that sometimes, something can trigger for you to be in self protection mode, and way to overwhelmed to deal with something at hand right away. BUT once you know you have to take it on, and you cant shy away from it or it will get worse. IMHO parent know when a kid is not right, they just know.

this is basically what i was trying to say songline...i'm sorry about your daughter...imo and experience girls are not diagnosed as early as boys and are often given less serious "labels" if you will...i am very sorry for your experience but as you say so very well, joran was having serious problems early on and apparently ongoing and for serious things that were "willfully" denied and unacceptably blamed on others...i do see the differentiation between willfull and unconcious denial but we may all never agree on which was the case here.... all :cow:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I do not BTW believe he is mentally ill>hence his adjustment to prison as per whomever is observing him. Do believe he is likely a psychopath.

ETA: I will be quite surprised if we hear otherwise when/if we receive information about psychiatric exams.

This online film about psychopaths is really interesting IMO...and yes, agree, psychopath.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/