Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

[panthera]

If the reports of JVDS having a tide chart in his possession at the time of his arrest are true ... when did he purchase them? When he went out for coffee? That's the only time I can figure. MOO

That's about the only thing I can think of also. MOO

 

[Sanny]

That ruined my day! Here we go........

I thought it was mandatory that Joran HAD to answer questions put to him by the Judge....

So now he can just sit there and say nothing?:furious:

Also Joe Tacapino :furious::furious:stated he was not going to represent him but I read he is sending an associate or someone from him firm.

 

[jilly]

Its obvious that Joran LOVES being the centre of attention, its written all over his face during most of the interviews I have ever seen him do, he's positively SPARKLING!

Also really enjoyed the man-love-montage at 7:44

Yeah... and he's got a bit of charisma, alright!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Good grief! <palm/forehead> Tacopina just can't help himself from jumping on this trainwreck.

JVS isn't exactly in any position to bargain at the moment, but it will be interesting to see how this tact works out for him.

Yeah, I'm thinking its not going to work out too well at all. The lawyers will be able to preserve his rights in Peru, but as far as slowing down the wheels of justice in order to prolong the inevitable..I think he's picked the wrong country.

He's lucky they're keeping him in isolation IMO.

 

[Solomisskitty]

Please excuse if it's already been asked, but does anyone know what the outcome in Peru is for an "insanity plea"?

 

[Flow]

The TLC special is on the air now.

 

[Eileen O'B]

I thought it was mandatory that Joran HAD to answer questions put to him by the Judge....

So now he can just sit there and say nothing?:furious:

Also Joe Tacapino :furious::furious:stated he was not going to represent him but I read he is sending an associate or someone from him firm.

Under the Peruvian system, a defendant must answer questions put to him by the judge, but if he chooses to remain silent his silence can be used against him. In this country your silence cannot be used against you.

I have no idea what Tacopino is up to.

 

[Columbo]

If the reports of JVDS having a tide chart in his possession at the time of his arrest are true ... when did he purchase them? When he went out for coffee? That's the only time I can figure. MOO

Good question.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Please excuse if it's already been asked, but does anyone know what the outcome in Peru is for an "insanity plea"?

I've been searching online for the answer to this question and can't find anything...so I'm thinking that they just end up in prison along with all the other criminals - insane or not. Regardless, Joran would not qualify to be judged criminally insane, even having a mental illness is not usually enough, and psychopathy is a personality disorder, not even a mental illness.

Unfortunately Joran knew the nature and quality of his acts....as proven by him high-tailing it out of the country.

 

[Kat]

Its obvious that Joran LOVES being the centre of attention, its written all over his face during most of the interviews I have ever seen him do, he's positively SPARKLING!

Also really enjoyed the man-love-montage at 7:44

I might be off base, but JMHO that sparkling, engaging, consistant eye contact with a smile thing Joran's got going on there---is exactly what most women see---JMHO. Until the mask slips.


ETA: JMHO, and two cents but that's also what is described as superficial, glib, and charm. (traits attributed to someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder.

 

[Solomisskitty]

Watching the TLC program. I do so hope Natalee is put to rest. I can so see myself, at her age - many moons ago, saying "I'm going to party with the natives!"

 

[Eileen O'B]

Watching the TLC program. I do so hope Natalee is put to rest. I can so see myself, at her age - many moons ago, saying "I'm going to party with the natives!"

Me too. At her age, and at twice her age!

 

[OneLove]

I might be off base, but JMHO that sparkling, engaging, consistant eye contact with a smile thing Joran's got going on there---is exactly what most women see---JMHO. Until the mask slips.


ETA: JMHO, and two cents but that's also what is described as superficial, glib, and charm. (traits attributed to someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Very true. He clearly thinks he can "bamboozle" this woman with his "charm" and then becomes unbalanced when he can't. I'm betting there have been few women who ever stayed around long enough to confront him on his BS. They probably either succumbed to his "charm" or took three steps back, turned, and ran as fast and as far as they could.

 

[songline]

You're probably right about that Panthera and I don't think the chart is very important in this investigation but I had other question if everybody doesn't mind---just to settle it in my mind

How far from the beach was the hotel located? Does anyone know off hand?

He probably was but I wonder if he had to travel with her dead body how he would get her (or suitcases containing her) to the beach?

I wonder if he has friends in Peru that have boats?

Just some questions in my mind at this moment. Not important to the investigation IMHO.

He noticed the cameras in the hotel...How was he going to get her out? in a suitcase? he'd Cary 115-130 pound as if it its normal weight?
He would get the porters dolly to roll the suitcase out?
That would alert the cashier and they would get into the room and see evidence....

NO ....
He was not going to carry her out. he knew he was trapped.

He wanted to know if he can swim and find his way to a near by boarder.
I think....Taking her out of the room would be too risky.

 

[Beatrice]

Beatrice thanks for sharing that I hadn't seen that before. IMHO that statement gives us an enormous insight into that relationship. IMHO he strums her like a banjo. He knows where her buttons are and when to push them or dance on them to ellicit the response he wants.

Of course that is all MHO and not supported by known fact or links. JMHO.

Joran: "Mom, if you had been here, none of this would have happened."

JMO...But, I feel while Anita was away...Both her "mama's boys",
Joran & Paulus were out playing.

Paulus had been at the Excelsior Casino in the late afternoon. Joran said Paulus doesn't like to gamble.
(I think he loves to drink.)JMO.

 

[FLNY]

I will say this (and then duck) when NH went missing Joran was 17. Apparently he was someone NH was attracted to as she went with him. I in no way blame her. We all need to remember when we were 18. I personally think Joran was a cute guy at that time and in any other scenario he would be an attractive man. (I don't see any frontal lobe damage that some have pointed out). Having said that I don't have any idea what happened in Aruba. I honestly think something did happen with NH and he panicked. What 17 year old wouldn't. But, the way it was handled by dad, authorities, whatever, it escalated way out of control. It made him think he was invinsible and cheapened the life of another person.

He never went to prison, not a conventional prison. But, he was sent away by his parents. He was 17 or 18 on his own in another country. And when he returned to his home country he was ridiculed he had no friends anymore, and according to his friend RL 5 years later he was still having insults hurled at him from his own people. He was almost a man without a country. We think he got away with murder and yet he was a total outcast. He was estranged from his family and home land and left to his own devices for survival.

To an already fragile psychic this can be devastating. Is that an excuse for murder, absolutely not, but it could explain it a little. All the persecution he had felt for 5 years, all the lies, memories of that night with NH came to the surface in that little hotel room. I don't think he was murdering SF, I think he was killing mom, dad, and himself. He had to know this was the end of the road.

There is no good reason for him doing what he did, but there are reasons that led to it. He is a tormented person and I am sure he is glad this game has ended. I don't believe that he does not need to be punished but I do understand how this has come to this conclusin. I don' know how it could have ended any other way. I believe if he had been treated 5 years ago this never would have happened. And I hope it does not end tragically in that prison. I am a firm believer in forgiveness and second chances.JMO

I'm so glad that you posted your comments, as it's almost exactly what I've been thinking. Except I do believe he had psychological problems before meeting NH. But, whether her death was accidental or caused by his anger control issues, I think her death was a turning point in his psychosis. If he had been provided treatment at that point, there's a possibility he wouldn't have spiraled completely out of control and Stephany would be alive today.

As far as his boastful and arrogant demeanor, part is due to his illness, part from the sense of entitlement instilled by his parents and, possibly, part was to mask deeper feelings of insecurity. JMHO

 

[Solomisskitty]

I've been searching online for the answer to this question and can't find anything...so I'm thinking that they just end up in prison along with all the other criminals - insane or not. Regardless, Joran would not qualify to be judged criminally insane, even having a mental illness is not usually enough, and psychopathy is a personality disorder, not even a mental illness.

Unfortunately Joran knew the nature and quality of his acts....as proven by him high-tailing it out of the country.

Thanks for your research! So, Peruvian prisons are the dumping grounds for the insane just as the US prisons are.

 

[songline]

Please excuse if it's already been asked, but does anyone know what the outcome in Peru is for an "insanity plea"?

I dont know. but him sitting silence and not replying to a judge is a wild card.

 

[Lori59]

He is the perfect example of why I tell my daughter...MONSTERS don't always look like MONSTERS.

 

[Kat]

He noticed the cameras in the hotel...How was he going to get her out? in a suitcase? he'd Cary 115-130 pound as if it its normal weight?
He would get the porters dolly to roll the suitcase out?
That would alert the cashier and they would get into the room and see evidence....

NO ....
He was not going to carry her out. he knew he was trapped.

He wanted to know if he can swim and find his way to a near by boarder.
I think....Taking her out of the room would be too risky.

hehe Songline you cracked me up