Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[hollyblue]

Some believe the FBI are doing this all for Beth because she wanted revenge against Joran. AVS still considers her and the media as the reason Joran's life escalated hownhill.

I understand, but Unreal thinks NH's (disappearance?) was a conspiracy too. My question is why did THEY have it out for JVS?

 

[Unreals]

BUT, why and who would someone want to plan a strategic conspiracy against JVS for killing Natalee and then Stephany in the first place?

Logical question. It's one that is often asked of conspiracy theorists like myself. Unlike many who are intrigued by conspiracies, I don't always feel comfortable speculating about exactly who was behind them. Especially in a case like this, when it appears the most logical suspects (who might have a motive to frame Joran) don't appear to have the clout to do so. In any event, the murder in Peru would be connected to the Natalee Holloway case, of course.

I can only analyze the information. For me, that information has been inconsistent from the very beginning (essential evidence from the crime scene constantly changing, even the most basic facts like murder weapon, mode of death, position of body and clothing), all the "coincidences," etc.

I realize that I'm goiing against the grain here, but I'm used to that. I think this is all just a little too cut and dry- if someone wanted to make Joran look guilty, then the camera outside his door, the body found in a room registered in his name, the five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance, certainly seem to make for an airtight case, don't they?

Whatever you believe, Joran's retraction of his confession was entirely predictable. It also ensures that this case will just get more interesting.

 

[Kat]

Yes please Jwarner. I would like to see the pictures and thank you very much for the one's you have posted so far, it makes things much easier to understand.

 

[marikesh]

I understand, but Unreal thinks NH's (disappearance?) was a conspiracy too. My question is why did THEY have it out for JVS?

Sorry, I think answering that leads away from Stepheny's case and somewhere here it is stated we only stick to direct inferences and/or credible info.

 

[hollyblue]

Unreals, you do believe there was a conspiracy against JVS in Natalee's disappearance too...right? If so, and it was done for something maybe Paulus did, then why didn't it stop with this death? Why would someone want further revenge on JVS. He was 17....what could he have done at age 16/17 to warrant this?

 

[Unreals]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the recent stories in the Dutch media are at least partially motivated by what the Dutch might reasonably perceive to be incredibly biased American and Peruvian press coverage. Maybe all those snide references to the "Dutch Playboy" have kindled some nationalist pride in some journalists.

If I understood the last translation correctly (and that is no sure thing at all), it appears as if someone actually investigated the security camera set up at the hotel, and is now asking the logical questions.

The Dutch certainly can't be pleased with the way every American television network now seems to have an "expert" doctor who displays no reluctance about psychoanalyzing Joran on-air. Shockingly, their totally unethical analysis always matches perfectly with the venomous views of Nancy Grace and company.

Again, just 100% my speculation.

 

[Unreals]

Unreals, you do believe there was a conspiracy against JVS in Natalee's disappearance too...right? If so, and it was done for something maybe Paulus did, then why didn't it stop with this death? Why would someone want further revenge on JVS. He was 17....what could he have done at age 16/17 to warrant this?

I've done a lot of research into the Holloway case, and am firmly convinced that Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance. I have to admit that, while I can document the efforts to unfairly blame him for what happened, I still don't quite understand why he was singled out, and why the focus on him started immediately and never became diverted.

I suspect that there is some powerful connection in the Holloway case that hasn't been completely uncovered yet. Again, all I can analyze is the evidence, and I don't think there is any against him in the Holloway case, while I'm suspicious about everything in the Peru case.

 

[Kat]

Great post Unreals (#86) that does make sense to me.

Not directed at Unreals.

Many of us have differences of opinion and theory on many different cases.

The beauty of WS is that we are all welcome to post and participate if abide by TOS.

In the first post of this thread it states clearly that NH and her case is off limits on this thread. NH does have a thread elsewhere on the website and I just visited it yesterday to read up on her case.

I'm not posting this to be snotty. I can't remember the last time I was even sarcastic or snotty in real life much less on the internet.

I will try to find the post, but a moderator has stated that we cannot continue to argue with someone about their theory or speculations once they have been announced as such by the poster.

I'm not a mod but I really don't want to see one swoop down in here

~hugs~

 

[georger]

Yes please Jwarner. I would like to see the pictures and thank you very much for the one's you have posted so far, it makes things much easier to understand.

Here is one series. I have circled just two areas but there are other
areas of abrasion, redness-swelling, laceration, etc down to the redness at his right wrist where are the handcuffs. There is an open wound at the
edge of the finger nail on his fourth finger... etc. (I could have filled one
photo with circles at the various sites).

Copy this photo composite and zoom it to show in larger frame the details ...

 

[txsvicki]

Well, if Joran's mother really believes that everything that has happened with him is a set up and revenge, then that explains why he may have some of the problems that he does have. Inherited problems, being able to do as he pleased, and the position and family friends in Aruba caused his downfall. Her wild theories and friends won't be able to help now.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Re the crime scene photos: I thought it had been established that those images were taken at the reenactment and were not actual photos. Also the fox team went into rooms in the same hotel, but not the same room because Mark F said in his piece that the orientation was different, and Greta days later said she was in a different room but in the same hotel.

Agree that the diagram appears to relate not at all to the size or layout of the rooms.

So all of the images we have so far are or could be inaccurate, although I assume the reenactment ones would be closest, we cannot be sure.

 

[hollyblue]

Well, if Joran's mother really believes that everything that has happened with him is a set up and revenge, then that explains why he may have some of the problems that he does have. Inherited problems, being able to do as he pleased, and the position and family friends in Aruba caused his downfall. Her wild theories and friends won't be able to help now.

I like to take a peep at the note JVS left her. I have a feeling it contained more than what we have heard.

 

[georger]

Yes please Jwarner. I would like to see the pictures and thank you very much for the one's you have posted so far, it makes things much easier to understand.

Im going to post the attached which is a blowup of the laceration on his right hand middle finger knuckle - note the very specific geometry (shape)
of the wound. This looks like a percussion wound and I wonder if the
geometry of this wound matches some specific object at the crime scene.
(like a piece of her ear ring?). Its just a thought... however the wound could have
occured after the crime also (just no sure way to knoiw unless something at the crime
scene matches the wound).

The false color in the large image is an artifact of processing used to bring out underlying detail ... its a common technique.

I assure everyone I did not invent this. What you are seeing is the actual shape of
the one wound on Joran's knuckle. My work can be easily duplicated for verification.

 

[georger]

Re the crime scene photos: I thought it had been established that those images were taken at the reenactment and were not actual photos. Also the fox team went into rooms in the same hotel, but not the same room because Mark F said in his piece that the orientation was different, and Greta days later said she was in a different room but in the same hotel.

Agree that the diagram appears to relate not at all to the size or layout of the rooms.

So all of the images we have so far are or could be inaccurate, although I assume the reenactment ones would be closest, we cannot be sure.

That could explain the difference in layouts. So have any actual
crime scene photos been published - maybe not?

I thought the early reports said she was rolled up in a rug or something?
Joran said he laid his shirt over her? So why would they do a reenactment with the actual body as is shown in several Radar images?
I confess to being confused ...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

From my understanding it's not her body but a 'stand in' ie a girl in a similar position. I'm going to do a search for a link and see if we can get an accurate answer to this dilemma...conflicting reports to be sure!

The photos of the wounds on his hands are very telling what could have created such an unusual wound? A tooth or a piece of jewellry perhaps ... On phone at mo will jump onto laptop and have a look.

 

[MCDRAW]

I've done a lot of research into the Holloway case, and am firmly convinced that Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance. I have to admit that, while I can document the efforts to unfairly blame him for what happened, I still don't quite understand why he was singled out, and why the focus on him started immediately and never became diverted.

I suspect that there is some powerful connection in the Holloway case that hasn't been completely uncovered yet. Again, all I can analyze is the evidence, and I don't think there is any against him in the Holloway case, while I'm suspicious about everything in the Peru case.

If Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's death, why would he confess several times? I know he recanted several times too but I can't understand why someone innocent has worked so hard to make himself look so guilty.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

From thread #9 post #11

suzihawk

Quote:
Originally Posted by krowdkat
Hey, everyone. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I wanted to clear up an earlier issue regarding the crime scene photos published in this weeks National Enquirer. I bought a copy and the pics showing the bloody sheets and body wrapped in the comforter on the floor between the bed and wall CLEARY state crime scene RE-ENACTMENT based on police reports.

So, those photos are NOT REAL. Just a demonstration to sell more rag mags.

JFYI.
Agreed! However, the very clever and ambiguous wording leads one to believe otherwise:

"From multiple sources, the Enquirer was able to reconstruct death scene photos and uncover the events surrounding the murder, based on the police investigation."

Yeah... I spent my hard earned $3.69 on the rag.

I couldn't find anything online relating to this...but here's what WS has deducted.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That could explain the difference in layouts. So have any actual
crime scene photos been published - maybe not?

I thought the early reports said she was rolled up in a rug or something?
Joran said he laid his shirt over her? So why would they do a reenactment with the actual body as is shown in several Radar images?
I confess to being confused ...

Sorry to dash all your hard work!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If Joran had nothing to do with Natalee's death, why would he confess several times? I know he recanted several times too but I can't understand why someone innocent has worked so hard to make himself look so guilty.

Because the creep wanted money for media appearances, and got a twisted thrill out of torturing her family...however the confession in the car he made when he wasn't aware he was being filmed cannot be put down to this, and confirms his guilt for the murder of Natalee IMO, although I don't believe he told the true story even then, I now believe that sadly her murder was as brutal as Stepany's.

 

[MCDRAW]

Because the creep wanted money for media appearances, and got a twisted thrill out of torturing her family...however the confession in the car he made when he wasn't aware he was being filmed cannot be put down to this, and confirms his guilt for the murder of Natalee IMO, although I don't believe he told the true story even then, I now believe that sadly her murder was as brutal as Stepany's.

True but I would think that someone innocent wouldn't want to make money by trying to make himself look guilty. I would think most innocent people would want the world to know that they were innocent. I think they would spend their time trying to convince everyone of their innocence. Joran has spent his time trying to make himself look guilty and made money doing it.