Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

[hollyblue]

Respectively snipped:

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I would like to know what that leather-appearing book with "W" on it is.

I think this was his "business cards/contacts" holder.

 

[Sanny]

Here's the casino video:

http://www.larepublica.pe/node/271311/01#fotos

I believe I was the first to mention that it appears she's passing him a chip. Some disagreed, but it still looks that way to me...especially in the overhead shots.

I'm with you FLNY.....she passed him what looks to be a chip...from the handshake......he was slick.....and placed it directly on his small pile ...
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.....LOL :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[Sanny]

I can't wait until he is transfered to Louigancho....Think he is whining now, we have no even begun to hear how much he will complain....Get him away from his cell mate buddy and get him in a pod that he will quickly be an outcast.....I can't wait.

In total agreement with you Kimmer......Absolutely and positively.....

Lurigancho make room for [Joran van der sloot].:dance::dance::dance::dance:

 

[selena]

Here's another look into JVDS business, if anyone is interested.
The cafe in Thailand, a vid called the Poker scandal abd a few unrelated vids.
My guess is these will vanish soon, so if you care to watch here they are,
S
http://www.youtube.com/user/AUAJORANBKK

 

[selena]

Nice to meet you, too, Selena and WELCOME :woohoo:
Great first post, glad you're here...Keep it coming!

I'm with you FLNY.....she passed him what looks to be a chip...from the handshake......he was slick.....and placed it directly on his small pile ...
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.....LOL :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

It was a weird extended handshake, for sure!
S

 

[Sanny]

I don't know why anyone has translated "salir con" definitively as "leave with." "Salir con" is commonly used, especially by young people, to mean "to go out with" as on a date. In my opinion, a lot of the confusion in this case was created early on by the media. Many of them appeared to rely on quick translations (via Google?) in order to get the scoop. In my opinion, Google's translation tool doesn't do a good job with Spanish and does an even worse job with Dutch.

I am here in the States, but I try to read (with my three+ years of Spanish) the online versions of Spanish language newspapers in Lima to get information as close to the original source as possible. There are also a couple of websites in English written by people in Lima who know both English and Spanish well. They do a good job of reporting on JVS and the murder of SF, but they don't report on a regular basis. When the news hits here, I am often surprised at what I hear or read because it doesn't match closely enough to what I have read from Lima.

Google translations are at times very peculiar and unreliable. Some media at the start seemed to rely heavily on them. Add to this the fact that a word in Spanish can often be translated into many different words in English depending on meaning and context. Machine translations provide just one word for each word in a sentence. Many of the inconsistencies in the news we have gotten in English do come from faulty translations and from the media releasing information far too quickly before verifying accuracy. This includes news from well-thought-of mainstream media sources.

By the way, I am a newcomer here although I have lurked for a while. I am impressed by the level of discussion and commitment at Websleuths.com. I hope you will welcome me warmly.

:Welcome-12-june::Welcome-12-june:

Just forget the 12 June business.......think WELCOME TO YOU

 

[BuzzieCat]

Respectively snipped:

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I would like to know what that leather-appearing book with "W" on it is.

I think this was his "business cards/contacts" holder.

Oh. I wouldn't have thought of that. It's so large. How could a 2-bit swindler (IMO) have that many contacts? And I wonder what's with the W? That's not his initial, unless maybe that's how it's spelled in Dutch or something.

 

[Sanny]

It was a weird extended handshake, for sure!
S

I agree....but I think the purpose was to slip him the chip....LOL

 

[hollyblue]

Here it is,...whew.

06-10-2010, 05:03 PM #854
$taybuffMM
grinder
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...oker-player-serial-killer-798751/index57.html

Selena/ whole thread is interesting

Thanks for the link---it is interesting. I'm not a card player, so could you explain the bolded above for us that are lacking in that area. TY

 

[FLNY]

I just posted additional info on Elton Garcia on the media thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5335983&postcount=161"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION**[/ame]

It includes his police statement and a video.

From his statement, I think we can rule him out as being the man in the green shirt on the casino video, since it doesn't appear that he was at the casino that night.

 

[Sanny]

I've been thinking about the bottle that was photographed in one of the crime scene pics.

I wish they put a direct arrow to it......and had it enlarged so that we could read or try to read the lable on the front.

Some thought it was a cleaning agent for the blood on the carpet.

Some thought it was henna for his hair......but if that's the case....he left "Tacky" without it......and his hair in the video of him leaving shows.....no hair dye or buzz cut.

So it's back to the cleaning agent.......

 

[hollyblue]

Respectively snipped:



Oh. I wouldn't have thought of that. It's so large. How could a 2-bit swindler (IMO) have that many contacts? And I wonder what's with the W? That's not his initial, unless maybe that's how it's spelled in Dutch or something.

Joran was a conniver, smooth talker and he prolly had unbelievable opportunities for contacts with people in every port he sat his butt down in. The media alone has infinite contacts. Don't know what the W is.

 

[Unreals]

Once again, you move right past the answer that fits the facts toward the answer you want. We need to some some evidence that Joran was set up. Your "theory" requires that someone would plan to murder another young woman to set Joran up, that someone would follow Joran to not only Peru, but to a hotel room with a security camera right outside his door, that someone would lie in wait for the moment when he would bring a woman back to that hotel, then wait again until Joran left her alone; that someone would somehow gain entrance to that room without breaking down the door. Then the unknown person would have to kill Stephany, attempt to clean up the blood, and Ninja his or her way out of the room without being seen by the camera, all the while not knowing where Joran is or when he was coming back.

At some point, the "real" killer(s) would have to exit the room without being seen by the camera or the hotel staff or any visitors, even though this person is presumably covered with blood or blood spatter. Then, somehow, the killer has to get the innocent Joran to do a lot of things that make him look guilty of murder but also MAKE HIM GUILTY of other crimes and point to knowledge of guilt, such as stealing her money and car, disguising his appearance, leaving the country, and telling Chilean LE a patently false version of what happened, a version that differed from what he said in Peru. Then, the killers get very lucky and find out that Interpol and LE in Chile and Peru have bought into their frame up or--gasp--are in on the frame up, along with federal agents in the US.

We are expected, then, to believe that the same people who set up Joran in Aruba set him up in Peru, and LE in four countries didn't suspect a thing? That five years of scrutiny didn't turn up a shred of evidence that anyone from the US killed Natalee Holloway? Who are these murderers? Where is there a shred of evidence that they exist? Why would anyone need to set up a murder in Peru when there is already evidence of a crime that would allow the US to request extradition, that would require Joran to answer questions about Natalee Holloway because HE was claiming to know the location of her body. The extortion case provided all anyone would ever need to get Joran to the US, in an American jail, to answer questions posed by American federal agents. There is (we have been told in the indictment against Joran and by witnesses in the US and Aruba) evidence that Joran initiated the extortion plot (emails, signed documents, video, wire transfers) and took the money. So the Holloways and their supporters had no reason to set up Joran in Peru and no reason, certainly, to murder another young woman. Joran has confessed to knowing where Natalee's body is and also to being present at her death.

As to your contention that few murderers would be that "stupid," the prisons of the world are full of people who murder and then get caught. Most unsolved cases are probably "solved," in the sense that LE has a good idea who did it but can't try the case because the body is missing or witnesses won't cooperate, etc. People who kill other people deliberately are massively arrogant and entitled, and thus often believe they are smarter than whoever is investigating the case. So my contention is that murderers are morally stupid and fully capable of deluding themselves into thinking that they can get away with murder.

You are, as people say, entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The basics of this case have not changed: Joran and Stephany enter his room. Joran leaves alone. These movements are caught on video. Joran runs away, steals her money and car, gets caught, and lies to LE in Chile. There is a body and a defined crime scene, which will point to the murderer with objective evidence. Peruvian LE has every reason to want to arrest and try the person who committed the crime.

Of course, from the video we've seen, Joran looks guilty. The problem is, we haven't seen video from before they came back together to his room (which would have shown someone else entering the room), and more importantly we haven't seen any video from the time after Joran left the hotel, which would have revealed if anyone else entered or left the room after that.

My suspicions were aroused immediately when I heard that a dead girl was found in Joran Van Der Sloot's room, on the exact five year anniversary of Natalee's disapperance. Yes, I'm prejudiced here, just as most people who already thought Joran had escaped justice in the Holloway case are prejudiced, too. I'm looking for loopholes in the Peru case, because I find the "coincidences" and ever changing "evidence" to be suspicious, and because I think Joran was unfairly hounded for Natalee's disappearance. Miost posters here, and most people in general, are looking for things to justify their predisposed antipathy towards Joran, which was fed and fueled for five years by Nancy Grace, JVM, Geraldo, etc.

As I noted, we don't know if the real killer(s) left the room after Joran or not. The videotape would prove this one way or the other. You mention that the killers would have been covered with blood- that's exactly the point I made about Joran. Where was the blood on him? He looked totally clean (and unmarked from the struggle Stephany put up against him) when he left. And we do have video of this. We also don't have video of Joran stealing her money and her car. We have to take the Peruvian authorities' word for that, and frankly I think their reputation for integrity leaves a lot to be desired. Remember, it was also stated that Joran stole Stephany's jewelry, but we can see from the crime scene photos that she was still wearing an expensive watch and gold ring.

Again, all I'm doing is posting my thoughts, speculating, theorizing. The rest of you are doing the same thing. It's just that my thoughts and speculation run contrary to the majority of opinions here.

 

[selena]

Thanks for the link---it is interesting. I'm not a card player, so could you explain the bolded above for us that are lacking in that area. TY

Oh,...lol, I wish I knew. I didn't bold it here so it must have been bolded in the original text, or the keyboard fairies are responsible!
I'm learning as lot of the lingo form reading the boards and I surmise that she was more accomplished by the posts I read about her ability vs his. He was an occasionally lucky player but not so much lately per his stats on his online accounts, some are negative.

S

 

[selena]

Joran was a conniver, smooth talker and he prolly had unbelievable opportunities for contacts with people in every port he sat his butt down in. The media alone has infinite contacts. Don't know what the W is.

:croc::croc:

I found a Winn leather goods company online but no monogrammed product resembling the card holder. Could be from another company but that was the only company on a quick search and it didn't show anything like the folder he had.
S

 

[hollyblue]

Oh,...lol, I wish I knew. I didn't bold it here so it must have been bolded in the original text, or the keyboard fairies are responsible!
I'm learning as lot of the lingo form reading the boards and I surmise that she was more accomplished by the posts I read about her ability vs his. He was an occasionally lucky player but not so much lately per his stats on his online accounts, some are negative.

S

selena, I bolded it to make it stand out for my question. LOL. Hopefully, some card players will come forward and explain it. Thx again.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That's most likely why I read that his specialty was preying on young female tourists.

I didn't follow the NH case. But from reading the previous posting listing all the anger issues that JVDS had displayed over the years, it had to have been general knowledge on that island. So, it seems that he should have been the obvious person to have been suspected in NH's disappearance. Now I can more fully understand why you're all so vehement that her case was totally mishandled by the ALE.

I read through all the police reports from the NH case and there were examples of Joran and his friends being questioned about incidents of gang rapes, although the guys denied that the police were pretty specific - girls names included etc. These sounded like local girls to me, because some of the incidents occurred in the girls' cars etc. Sounds to me like they could have prosecuted him for SOMETHING.

Anyway at the risk of getting off track here.....but it does add up to a long history of this kind of behaviour. There must be other girls out there...

 

[hollyblue]

:croc::croc:

I found a Winn leather goods company online but no monogrammed product resembling the card holder. Could be from another company but that was the only company on a quick search and it didn't show anything like the folder he had.
S

Could be. Maybe it's no longer available. Don't get the two icons you posted. ??

 

[selena]

Donk
A donk is short for donkey, an inexperienced player who often plays very loosely and passively. Donks are also known as newbies and fish.

Donkament
A donkament is a poker tournament in which many of the players involved are inexperienced, or donkeys.

Donkey
A donkey is an unskilled player, or fish, who often plays extremely poorly, loosely, or passively. A donkament is a tournament full of donkeys.

I don't know how the alligators showed up, seems my mouse is dragging !

 

[GetSmart]

You know I am usually one of the most polite posters on board. But I am going to say something here.. and please I ask that nobody "flames" me for this remark.

For crying out loud... what is it with all the conspiracy stuff. The next thing I imagine I'll be reading is This whole thing has indeed been a set up right down to Steph really wasn't murdered she is alive and well .. that there was some plan to put Joran away and since her Dad has so many contacts everywhere and he is in the entertainment industry they were able to pull this off and Joran is finally going to pay his debt cause he narced on the Venezuela Sex Slave Trade... JMI (just my imagination)

I am sorry but that is just not the case. Joran has been VIPER most of his "of age" life. He has been a bomb ready to explode and finally was caught. I feel for all the families involved....

OK I feel better now. and once again please forgive me for my outburst..