GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #24

[annalia]

I'm trying to think of the lies that Joran first told. He said that robbers broke into his hotel room. He tried to blame Elton Garcia. Were there any others?

I don't believe that he lost it because Stephany was snooping in his laptop. There's no explanation as to why her pants were off.

There have been so many similarities between Stephany and Natalee that I'm more and more convinced that this was also exactly how Natalee died, she rebuffed him, she fought him and he lost it, the only difference in Natalee's case is that he had help cleaning it all up afterwards and he had help for over five years to stay one step ahead of the law.

I don't have links but I recall reading that his mental instability dated back to before 2005.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Whatever he tries, it won't get him off the hook. He knows he can't argue he didn't do it, so this is what is left. I hope he has a GREAT defense and still spends the rest of his life in prison, in Peru or elsewhere.

 

[suzihawk]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/07/lawyer-van-der-sloot-plead-temporary-insanity/#ixzz1FxilTDkR

An attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, said she considered the planned plea "outrageous." Twitty knows the Flores family will never accept it and she plans to "make whatever noise she has to" to make sure it doesn't happen, the lawyer, John Kelly, added.

"He's a very slippery, smart criminal," Kelly said of Van der Sloot, adding that any suggestion he "flipped out for a moment" in killing Flores was mocked by the meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime and his escape.

Kelly also emphasized that even if Peruvian justice were to go easy on Van der Sloot he still faces prosecution in the United States on wire fraud and extortion charges.

 

[FLNY]

I find it strange that looking back through the original laptop findings there was no mention of whether or not any websites re: Natalee were visited while Stephany was in Joran's room. The reported analysis showed that poker websites were accessed before Stephany's death and 'escape' searches were made afterwards, but nothing about Natalee. Does anyone recall seeing anything different reported at the time??

However, according to the Flores' attorney, searches for Natalee were only made before Stephany ever returned to the hotel with Joran:

"For their part, the Flores’ family lawyer, Edward Álvarez, said that the defense’s new strategy does not hold up against further analysis.

'That laptop with information about the crime in Aruba was produced long before Stephany went with him to the hotel,' he explained.

Álvarez stated that it is 'completely false' that Flores argued with van der Sloot over this information."

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/page/2

We can only hope and pray that he's right!!!

(Note: This website also has a video of interviews with both lawyers...in Spanish.)

 

[annalia]

Good article;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...r-sloot-the-insanity-plea-that-could-free-him

Van der Sloot’s defense strategy may be ingenious from a legal standpoint, but he still faces one major obstacle. The parents of Stephany Flores are dead set against the plea, even if it means the man who murdered their daughter admits his guilt. Instead, sources close to the Flores family—who have become good friends with the Holloways—say they will do whatever they can to ensure the young man does not get out of prison.”

Navarro worries that may mean the politically powerful Flores family will mete out their own brand of justice. “The price on van der Sloot’s head has just gone up,” he says. “We need to get him out of there.”

I'm glad to see that the Flores and Holloways have become close. I recall reading that Mr Flores and Beth became close and that Dave spoke with Mr Flores frequently.

Shame on Joran's attorney for now turning Mr Flores' trying to make sure his child receives the proper justice into something sinister.

 

[suzihawk]

Joran van der Sloot's lawyer Maximo Altez Navarro has exclusively told RadarOnline.com: "I'm confident that we can win our temporary insanity plea."

Navarro said: "We are confident that we can prove 'temporary insanity' and I am going to fight to make this happen for Joran.

"If we are successful, he will serve between 3-5 years in prison but will get out earlier if there are no problems.

"Both Joran and his mother agree with my plan, and we believe this is the best option for him.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...ney-confident-he-can-prove-temporary-insanity

 

[Hazel]

I find it strange that looking back through the original laptop findings there was no mention of whether or not any websites re: Natalee were visited while Stephany was in Joran's room. The reported analysis showed that poker websites were accessed before Stephany's death and 'escape' searches were made afterwards, but nothing about Natalee. Does anyone recall seeing anything different reported at the time??

However, according to the Flores' attorney, searches for Natalee were only made before Stephany ever returned to the hotel with Joran:

"For their part, the Flores’ family lawyer, Edward Álvarez, said that the defense’s new strategy does not hold up against further analysis.

'That laptop with information about the crime in Aruba was produced long before Stephany went with him to the hotel,' he explained.

Álvarez stated that it is 'completely false' that Flores argued with van der Sloot over this information."

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/page/2

We can only hope and pray that he's right!!!

(Note: This website also has a video of interviews with both lawyers...in Spanish.)

FLNY, on my post #52 I made a transcription of the video, and tried to read the still shot of what was shown of the Laptop Analysis Report, but it only showed portions of the report, so I had to rely only on what the reporter was saying. According to that TV program 'Cuarto Poder', which claims to have access to the full report, the NH searches took place one day before Stephany's murder, and there was no mention that there was a subsequent search re NH the following day, specially not during the hours that Stephany is known to have been in Joran's room.

No idea where Joran's lawyer is getting that from. I am sure he must have a copy of the laptor analysis report. If his claim is based on Joran's word, then it might be all just part of his strategy, maybe waste time? Or, from his point of view, gain time, perhaps looking for a loophole in the law. Seems like a delay strategy, something that will tie up with the other issue about not having been appointed an official translator, MOO.

After listening to both lawyers talking, MA (Joran's lawyer) comes across as kind of 'sleazy', whilst EA (Flores family's lawyer) sounds very confident that the evidence that came out of the laptop totally disproves J's argument; he is practically saying it does not hold any water. Sounds to me like J and team know it's a lost cause, but they are still trying to give it a try, perhaps in the hopes of reducing a couple of years to the sentence, but I don't think (and this is MOO) he will only get 3 to 5 years. Maybe is better if J just pleads guilty and tells all the truth; that might be his best move; at least that would save his mom some $ for lawyers expenses, JMHO, and who knows, the Judge or Jury (haven't read how he is going to be judged) might take a full and truthful confession into consideration? A confession with the only purpose of getting a reduced sentence does not show any remorse, MOO.

Will post a transcript of the video in that link you provided FLNY

gotta love the very last sentence:
In the meantime, the young Dutch man spends his time teaching English to the INPE staff, playing poker with his fellow prisoners, and reading the Bible at the end of the evening.

 

[Hazel]

Álvarez stated that it is 'completely false' that Flores argued with van der Sloot over this information."

http://www.livinginperu.com/news/page/2

We can only hope and pray that he's right!!!

(Note: This website also has a video of interviews with both lawyers...in Spanish.)

RS&bBM

This is a literal transcription, as it is shown on the video - no idea how Google will translate it though. I would do the translation myself, but the legal lingo is a turn-off.
article and VIDEO : http://www.livinginperu.com/news-14339-crime-defense-joran-van-der-sloot-seeks-3-5-year-sentence-peru-murder

direct link to VIDEO : http://elcomercio.pe/player/723530

Flores’ family lawyer: Edward Álvarez : EA
Joran VdS's lawyer: Máximo Altez : MA

Reporter: JVdS ha decidido romper el silencio que mantenía ante el Poder Judicial, y ahora quiere contar su versión sobre la muerte de la joven SF.

MA: Cuando la señorita SF estuvo hurgando en su computadora descubrió que JVD había tenido problemas anteriores por la muerte de la señorita NH. Nosotros estamos señalando que eso produjo la reacción violenta de Joran, ¿no? Empezaron a discutir y se empezaron a tocar de manos, a jugar de manos, a empujar y desencadenó en todo lo que ya sabemos, ¿no?

Reporter: Y es que Joran alegará ante la justicia peruana que el crimen que cometió contra SF se produjo por 'emoción violenta,” para que no se le juzgue por homicidio calificado y evitar así la condena de 25 años de prisión.

[ Next I am assuming J's lawyer is answering a question (not on video) re admission of guilt ]:

MA: Homicidio por emoción violenta.

Reporter: ¿Cuánto en años?

MA: De tres a cinco años.

Reporter: ¿Le parece lo justo de 3 á 5 años?

MA: Bueno, es lo que nosotros estamos pidiendo, ¿no? En todo caso la justicia tiene para escoger entre 'homicidio simple' ó 'homicidio calificado'.

Reporter: Es más, el abogado del joven holandés sostiene que si hasta la fecha VdS no ha declarado, es porque no le han nombrado un traductor oficial, del holandés al castellano [español].

MA: Nosotros dos veces hemos solicitado para que Joran dé su instructiva, cuando estaba el anteriior juez. No hay un intérprete nombrado por la Corte para este caso.

EA: ¿En qué momento él [JVdS] intenta solicitar declarar? Que si yo solicito declarar a finales de la instrucción, el tiempo para realizar las coordinaciones son insuficientes para contar con un intérprete.

Reporter: Para el abogado de la familia de la joven asesinada, esta nueva estrategia de defensa que planteará JVdS, no resiste el mayor análisis.

EA: Esa laptop con la información del crimen de Aruba, se produjo mucho antes de que Stephany acudiera con él al hotel a jugar póker. De que ella al revisar la laptop encontró información de ese crimen y eso fue lo que motivó la discusión y que terminó en la muerte de Stephany, es totalmente falsa. Y además de ese homicidio calificado, se ha incurrido en un delito de hurto al apoderarse de bienes. Téngalo por seguro que esa calificación es invariable.

MA: Bueno, que él está muy arrepentido de lo que ha pasado, de todo el daño que le ha causado a la familia Flores, ¿no? Y él [JVdS] en realidad se siente muy arrepentido, pero ya no puede hacer nada al respecto, ¿no?

EA: Si está arrepentido, que diga ¿cómo es que la mató? ¿cómo es que se apoderó del dinero? ¿qué hizo con él [dinero]? ¿cómo se ganó la confianza de Stephany? Pero que no mienta, porque no puede haber arrepentimiento basado en la mentira.

Reporter: El caso de VdS está por elevarse a Sala. Mientras tanto el joven holandés pasa el tiempo enseñado inglés que al personal del IMPE, jugando póker con sus compañeros de reclusión y leyendo la Biblia terminada la tarde.

 

[otto]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/07/lawyer-van-der-sloot-plead-temporary-insanity/#ixzz1FxilTDkR

An attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, said she considered the planned plea "outrageous." Twitty knows the Flores family will never accept it and she plans to "make whatever noise she has to" to make sure it doesn't happen, the lawyer, John Kelly, added.

"He's a very slippery, smart criminal," Kelly said of Van der Sloot, adding that any suggestion he "flipped out for a moment" in killing Flores was mocked by the meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime and his escape.

Kelly also emphasized that even if Peruvian justice were to go easy on Van der Sloot he still faces prosecution in the United States on wire fraud and extortion charges.

I'm confused by what Kelly means when he says that Joran meticulously calculated his attempt to cover up the crime. Other than telling the staff to let his girlfriend sleep and leaving the country, what did he do to cover up the crime?

Also, the statement about Beth knowing that the Flores family will not accept a plea of crime of passion ... does the Flores family have a say in this?

 

[FLNY]

RS&bBM

This is a literal transcription, as it is shown on the video - no idea how Google will translate it though. I would do the translation myself, but the legal lingo is a turn-off.
article and VIDEO : http://www.livinginperu.com/news-14339-crime-defense-joran-van-der-sloot-seeks-3-5-year-sentence-peru-murder

direct link to VIDEO : http://elcomercio.pe/player/723530

Hazel: Thanks so much for this transcription! I put it thru a couple online translators and eked out this fairly good translation:

[Flores’ family lawyer: Edward Álvarez : EA
Joran VdS's lawyer: Máximo Altez : MA]

Reporter: JVdS has determined to break the silence that he maintained before the Judicial Power, and now wants to recount his version on the death of the young woman SF.

MA: When the young lady SF was stirring in his computer she discovered that JVD had previous problems with the death of the young lady NH. We are indicating that that produced the violent reaction of Joran, ¿no? They began to discuss and they began to touch of hands, to play of hands, to push and it triggered everything that we already know, ¿no?

Reporter: And the fact is that Joran will allege before the Peruvian justice that the crime that he committed against SF was produced by 'violent emotion,? so that he himself not be judged for homicide qualified and to avoid thus the prison sentence of 25 years of prison.

MA: Homicide by violent emotion.

Reporter: How many years?

MA: From three to five years.

Reporter: This seems to him the just thing of 3 to 5 years?

MA: Good, it is what we are asking, ¿no? In any case, the justice has to choose among 'simple homicide' or 'homicide qualified'.

Reporter: What’s more, the lawyer of the Dutch youth maintains that if to-date VdS has not declared, it is because they have not named an official translator from Dutch to Spanish.

MA: We ourselves two times have requested so that Joran give its instructive one, when was the anteriior judge. There is not an interpreter named by the Court for this case.

EA: In what moment he [JVdS] tries to request to declare? That if I request to declare at the end of the instruction, the time to carry out the coordinations are insufficient to include an interpreter.

Reporter: For the lawyer of the family of the young woman murdered, this new strategy of defense that JVdS will present, does not resist the major analysis.

EA: That laptop with the information of the crime of Aruba, took place long before which Stephany went with him to the hotel to play poker. That she, upon reviewing the laptop, found information of that crime and that was what motivated the discussion and that finished in the death of Stephany, is completely false. And besides that described homicide, it has been incurred a crime of theft upon seizing goods. Consider assured that that qualification is invariable.

MA: Good, he is very repented of what has passed, of all the damage that he has caused the Flores family, ¿no? And he [JVdS] in reality feels very sorry, but no longer can he do anything about the matter, ¿no?

EA: If he is sorry, how is it that he killed her? How is it that he seized the money? What did he do with the [money]? How did he win the confidence of Stephany? But that he does not mention, because there cannot be repentance based on the lie.

Reporter: The case of VdS is about to elevate to Room. In the meantime the Dutch youth passes the time teaching English to the personnel of the IMPE, playing poker with his companions of imprisonment and reading the Bible at the end of the evening."

 

[annalia]

I'm confused by what Kelly means when he says that Joran meticulously calculated his attempt to cover up the crime. Other than telling the staff to let his girlfriend sleep and leaving the country, what did he do to cover up the crime?

Also, the statement about Beth knowing that the Flores family will not accept a plea of crime of passion ... does the Flores family have a say in this?

Joran meticulously calculated his attempt to cover up the crime.

I believe that the word attempt explains what Kelly meant. Kelly didn't say that Joran succeeded, he said his calculated attempt to cover was meticulous and jmo he was right. There was the coffee run with two cups of coffee while Stephany lay dead in his room, dying his hair, his googling countries to see which ones didn't have extradition, telling the hotel not to disturb his girlfriend, there were other things that I can't recall right now.


As far as Beth where do you get that it means the Flores family has no say? Quite possibly Beth spoke them about it? It's also been reported many times that she's right in what she said, the Flores family will not stand for anything like what Navarro is proposing, they will fight to see justice served.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...could-free-him

 

[FLNY]

"Joran van der Sloot’s lawyer has again demanded journalists be granted access to his client. Mr Máximo Altez told Radio Netherlands Worldwide he has filed a complaint against the Peruvian judiciary for violating the Dutch murder suspect’s constitutional rights.

Dutch journalists have repeatedly been refused opportunities to speak to Van der Sloot. RNW was not allowed to interview the 23-year-old from his cell despite his consent to speak with the Latin American section.

According to Mr Altez, it is very common for prisoners to talk to the press from their cells. He says the restrictions on Van der Sloot are an unjust infringement to his right to information and freedom of expression."

http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/van-der-sloot’s-lawyer-renews-call-end-interview-ban

Looks like Joran and his legal cohorts are on a roll...now he wants to give more interviews to tell more lies to substantiate his new 'crime of passion' strategy. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather not hear anything more from him until he's ready to tell the truth....which is most likely NEVER!!! :maddening:

 

[annalia]

Hazel: Thanks so much for this transcription! I put it thru a couple online translators and eked out this fairly good translation:


EA: That laptop with the information of the crime of Aruba, took place long before which Stephany went with him to the hotel to play poker. That she, upon reviewing the laptop, found information of that crime and that was what motivated the discussion and that finished in the death of Stephany, is completely false. And besides that described homicide, it has been incurred a crime of theft upon seizing goods. Consider assured that that qualification is invariable.

respectfully snipped

Thank you for the translation. I see no reason for the family's attorney to lie about the laptop findings. It would make sense that Joran would have been googling to see if there was any news on him fleeing with the money he extorted from Beth. jmo

 

[Nova]

...Looks like Joran and his legal cohorts are on a roll...now he wants to give more interviews to tell more lies to substantiate his new 'crime of passion' strategy. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather not hear anything more from him until he's ready to tell the truth....which is most likely NEVER!!! :maddening:

I could be wrong, but I suspect JVDS wants to SELL more interviews so he can pay his lawyers and other legal expenses.

 

[otto]

Joran meticulously calculated his attempt to cover up the crime.

I believe that the word attempt explains what Kelly meant. Kelly didn't say that Joran succeeded, he said his calculated attempt to cover was meticulous and jmo he was right. There was the coffee run with two cups of coffee while Stephany lay dead in his room, dying his hair, his googling countries to see which ones didn't have extradition, telling the hotel not to disturb his girlfriend, there were other things that I can't recall right now.


As far as Beth where do you get that it means the Flores family has no say? Quite possibly Beth spoke them about it? It's also been reported many times that she's right in what she said, the Flores family will not stand for anything like what Navarro is proposing, they will fight to see justice served.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...could-free-him

To me, it doesn't look like Joran attempted to cover up the crime at all. He didn't clean up the blood or remove evidence from the scene, he didn't remove Stephanie, he didn't take his things. He fled Peru, but I don't see a clean up.

It seems to me that a defense of crime of passion would have to be verified by a psychiatrist. I don't see how the family of the victim can say whether it was a crime of passion or not.

 

[annalia]

To me, it doesn't look like Joran attempted to cover up the crime at all. He didn't clean up the blood or remove evidence from the scene, he didn't remove Stephanie, he didn't take his things. He fled Peru, but I don't see a clean up.

It seems to me that a defense of crime of passion would have to be verified by a psychiatrist. I don't see how the family of the victim can say whether it was a crime of passion or not.

It was reported that he did try to clean it up, how would he have removed all of that blood? Also, didn't Joran say in his confession or it was reported that he wanted to take Stephany out of the hotel in a suitcase and dispose of her in the water but he didn't know where to get one and didn't have time to find one? How would he have gotten Stephany out? What evidence didn't he remove? He stole her belongings.

Just because he wasn't successful doesn't mean he didn't attempt to cover it up. All of those things he did imo was a blatant attempt to cover up his crime, maybe he just wasn't as successful this time around because he didn't have any help.

It was posted upthread that the Flores family attorney stated that the google searches on Natalee were done the day before which would blow Joran's crime of passion story out of the water. Do you think the Flores family's attorney is making it up?

 

[otto]

It was reported that he did try to clean it up, how would he have removed all of that blood? Also, didn't Joran say in his confession or it was reported that he wanted to take Stephany out of the hotel in a suitcase and dispose of her in the water but he didn't know where to get one and didn't have time to find one? How would he have gotten Stephany out? What evidence didn't he remove? He stole her belongings.

Just because he wasn't successful doesn't mean he didn't attempt to cover it up. All of those things he did imo was a blatant attempt to cover up his crime, maybe he just wasn't as successful this time around because he didn't have any help.

It was posted upthread that the Flores family attorney stated that the google searches on Natalee were done the day before which would blow Joran's crime of passion story out of the water. Do you think the Flores family's attorney is making it up?

I honestly don't know what Kelly means when he says " any suggestion he "flipped out for a moment" in killing Flores was mocked by the meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime and his escape."

It wasn't covered up. I see a cover up as sanitizing the scene and meticulously removing evidence of himself. The scene in the hotel room is exactly the opposite. There is evidence of him all over the place. Taking a couple of credit cards doesn't tell me that Joran meticulously tried to cover up the crime.

I understood that there was a message that came in while they were playing poker ... something about Joran being a "mongoloid". That, according to Joran, sparked the discussion about Natalie. Presumably there's a record of the message somewhere.

"The two were playing online poker on his laptop, said van der Sloot, when an insulting message arrived on the screen mentioning the Natalee Holloway case and saying, "I'm going to kill you, you little Mongoloid."

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007595-504083.html

 

[suzihawk]

Joran meticulously calculated his attempt to cover up the crime.

I believe that the word attempt explains what Kelly meant. Kelly didn't say that Joran succeeded, he said his calculated attempt to cover was meticulous and jmo he was right. There was the coffee run with two cups of coffee while Stephany lay dead in his room, dying his hair, his googling countries to see which ones didn't have extradition, telling the hotel not to disturb his girlfriend, there were other things that I can't recall right now.


As far as Beth where do you get that it means the Flores family has no say? Quite possibly Beth spoke them about it? It's also been reported many times that she's right in what she said, the Flores family will not stand for anything like what Navarro is proposing, they will fight to see justice served.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...could-free-him

Thank you. That's exactly the way I interpreted Kelly's statement.

"meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime"

Emphasis on the words 'calculation' and 'attempt'. Meaning JVS researched and weighed his options and did his best to conceal his involvement while attempting to make his escape. Unfortunately for him, he didn't do a very good job.


Thanks for the translations!

 

[otto]

Thank you. That's exactly the way I interpreted Kelly's statement.

"meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime"

Emphasis on the words 'calculation' and 'attempt'. Meaning JVS researched and weighed his options and did his best to conceal his involvement while attempt to make his escape. Unfortunately for him, he didn't do a very good job.


Thanks for the translations!

Since he failed so miserably at attempting to meticulously cleaning up the crime, I think that supports the argument that he was not thinking straight. It will be interesting to see if this legal argument succeeds.

 

[annalia]

I honestly don't know what Kelly means when he says " any suggestion he "flipped out for a moment" in killing Flores was mocked by the meticulous calculation of his attempt to cover up the crime and his escape."

It wasn't covered up. I see a cover up as sanitizing the scene and meticulously removing evidence of himself. The scene in the hotel room is exactly the opposite. There is evidence of him all over the place. Taking a couple of credit cards doesn't tell me that Joran meticulously tried to cover up the crime.

I understood that there was a message that came in while they were playing poker ... something about Joran being a "mongoloid". That, according to Joran, sparked the discussion about Natalie. Presumably there's a record of the message somewhere.

I really don't see what's so hard to understand. You keep repeating that it wasn't covered up as a way to say that Kelly is making things up but it seems pretty clear that Kelly isn't saying that it was, he clearly says attempt.

If someone flips out and murders someone out like for example like Andrea Yates, they don't make calculating decisions to try to cover it up as in the examples already posted. The meticulous calculation was in Joran's thought process in his attempts to cover it up, albeit unsuccessful, which shows he knew exactly what he was doing.

He also saw that Stephany was still breathing after his initial actions and then suffocated her to make sure she was dead.