GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #24

[Hazel]

Typo or not, it's a problem.

Oh, no! seriously? how big of a problem?

 

[otto]

Oh, no! seriously? how big of a problem?

Should human rights violations be allowed always, never, or only if someone is suspected of murder?

 

[annalia]

Typo or not, it's a problem.

No it isn't. He was legally expelled, Chile was well within their rights to expel him. This is nothing more than another scheme cooked up to stall his trial.

 

[annalia]

none of the articles i've read explain WHY jvds thinks he can sue stephany's father... can anyone enlighten me as to the grounds this monster believes he has to do this? thanks.

IIRC, it was reported that, according to JVDS, Mr Flores was behind it all and was the one pulling the strings.

Looks like JVDS has gone from putting all the blame on his first victim's mother, Beth Holloway, to his second victim's father, Mr Flores.

He is beyond belief.

JMHO

 

[otto]

My impression of Joran's lawsuits is that he fancies himself something of a lawyer by association ... that is, I suspect he always perceived himself as superior to his father, a prosecutor, so he believes that he can wield the law as a weapon with more skill than a trained lawyer. He may view the law as a game of win and lose, a chess game where strategy is what matters.

I do think he has a valid point regarding paperwork dated on May 13. It may be a typo, but that doesn't matter. If a legal document contains errors of fact, that is a problem for the person that completed the paperwork and Joran is well within his rights to exploit that error.

 

[Hazel]

Should human rights violations be allowed always, never, or only if someone is suspected of murder?

My question was regarding the typo. He is claiming the typo is 'evidence' that Chilean and Peruvian officials were violating the Dutch man's rights.

I do realize that this lawsuit represents a problem: more paperwork, more delays, same old tricks, considering himself a victim. Could we expect any better coming from him?

 

[otto]

He is claiming that because the paperwork was filed on May 13, well before the murder in Peru, that there was a conspiracy to usurp his rights. On that basis, he is correct. Too bad there was sloppiness on behalf of those that were filling out the paperwork ... or, perhaps it is not a typo.

 

[Hazel]

My impression of Joran's lawsuits is that he fancies himself something of a lawyer by association ... that is, I suspect he always perceived himself as superior to his father, a prosecutor, so he believes that he can wield the law as a weapon with more skill than a trained lawyer. He may view the law as a game of win and lose, a chess game where strategy is what matters.

I do think he has a valid point regarding paperwork dated on May 13. It may be a typo, but that doesn't matter. If a legal document contains errors of fact, that is a problem for the person that completed the paperwork and Joran is well within his rights to exploit that error.

Totally agree with your first paragraph!

About the typo: that could mean the person who filled out the form has a touch of dyslexia, and I see that being a problem for that person.

I guess he can try to exploit that. I'm reading his former lawyer contacted this other Peruvian lawyer who is based n New York.

"The suit was filed September 4 with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights in Washington.

Cotrina said he expects to complete next week a similar document, to be filed against the government of Peru."

So they are going international ... no wonder when I checked a couple of days ago, I couldn't find anything about this lawsuit in the Peruvian papers.

 

[otto]

It's a human rights issue, which means that the date on the paperwork will be at the core of the case. There's no room for arguing that someone was sloppy with the date, because that opens the door to the possibility that there were irregularities and sloppiness throughout the process.

 

[Hazel]

I just checked again, and found the news over there....love the comments!

 

[RR0004]

Should human rights violations be allowed always, never, or only if someone is suspected of murder?

IMPO there is nothing "human" about JVS.
I have to give Chile credit. The guy was obviously running from the law and they IMPO did the right thing. I suppose the Naizs who found safe haven in South America post-WWII would have also had their "human rights" violated if the governments of SA had expelled them?

ETA: not like I'm comparing JVS to a Nazi, but fleeing a country to avoid capture/prosecution should be reason enough to say good-bye, we don't want you here.

 

[annalia]

He is claiming that because the paperwork was filed on May 13, well before the murder in Peru, that there was a conspiracy to usurp his rights. On that basis, he is correct. Too bad there was sloppiness on behalf of those that were filling out the paperwork ...or, perhaps it is not a typo.

my bolding

An international conspiracy to frame and railroad poor Joran?

There is much more in his claims than the typo. The typo is not going to make his case. He may think he's smart but those he's dealing with now are much smarter, not so easy to fall for his schemes, unlike with his first victim. An international court isn't going to see an obvious typo, buy into any vast conspiracy and say yep his rights were violated. I'm afraid if anyone is holding out hope that his right to exploit the system over the typo is going to work, they're going to be disappointed in the end.

JMHO

 

[otto]

IMPO there is nothing "human" about JVS.
I have to give Chile credit. The guy was obviously running from the law and they IMPO did the right thing. I suppose the Naizs who found safe haven in South America post-WWII would have also had their "human rights" violated if the governments of SA had expelled them?

ETA: not like I'm comparing JVS to a Nazi, but fleeing a country to avoid capture/prosecution should be reason enough to say good-bye, we don't want you here.

The question seems to be whether he should have been expelled to Aruba and whether a Dutch citizen should be extradicted to a third country without legal representation. Legally, it seems like he should have been expelled to Aruba and if he was going to be extradicted, there should have been legal representation. The May 13 date on the paperwork and the speed at which he was whisked to Peru is interesting, as is the connection between the invitation to Peru and the man that reported him to police.

The money offer that was initiated by Ms Holloway's mother, after Joran cancelled the original deal, makes the situation appear even more suspicious. It was a volatile time for Joran, and his mother had just arranged for him to be admitted for psychological/psychiatric evaluation in the Netherlands (under the care of his physician uncle). Joran was scheduled to get on a plane the next day for that evaluation, and instead he had the thousands of dollars given to him by his first victim's mother. If there was anything deliberate going on in the background, even the manipulation of Joran to get him out of Aruba and into a position where he could be extradicted or expelled to the US, then it's very unfortunate that no one anticipated how dangerous Joran is.

 

[otto]

When you think about it, Beth had involved the FBI, her lawyer and a Dutch TV show in the money deal with Joran. Was the happy ending supposed to be Joran sent to the US via Peru?

 

[annalia]

Didn't take long to try to blame BH for this too.

Chile was under no legal obligation to expel him to Aruba, too bad for Joran but that's not how it works. He fled Peru he was expelled back to Peru.

He wasn't extradited anywhere, he was expelled and legally so, any talk of extradition is moot and a non issue. Interpol, LE knew exactly what they were doing,

And JFTR Joran never cancelled his extortion, it was not a deal it was a crime. Hatred for his victims doesn't excuse his crimes.

 

[otto]

Please, don't get me wrong. I am not blamining anyone for anything. I'm simply trying to synthesize all the information we have about the life of Joran v.d. Sloot over the last 6 or 7 years.

 

[otto]

Didn't take long to try to blame BH for this too.

Chile was under no legal obligation to expel him to Aruba, too bad for Joran but that's not how it works. He fled Peru he was expelled back to Peru.

He wasn't extradited anywhere, he was expelled and legally so, any talk of extradition is moot and a non issue. Interpol, LE knew exactly what they were doing,

And JFTR Joran never cancelled his extortion, it was not a deal it was a crime. Hatred for his victims doesn't excuse his crimes.

So ... if a US citizen or a Dutch citizen is in Chile, it is perfectly legal and within the Declaration of Human Rights to expel that person to Peru without consultation with a lawyer and with contacting Dutch or US embassies? All that is required is suspicion of a crime and US citizens can be sent from one South American country to another where they face 30 years in harsh prison conditions ... and it's all legal? I'm suprised.

 

[otto]

Didn't take long to try to blame BH for this too.

Chile was under no legal obligation to expel him to Aruba, too bad for Joran but that's not how it works. He fled Peru he was expelled back to Peru.

He wasn't extradited anywhere, he was expelled and legally so, any talk of extradition is moot and a non issue. Interpol, LE knew exactly what they were doing,

And JFTR Joran never cancelled his extortion, it was not a deal it was a crime. Hatred for his victims doesn't excuse his crimes.

What does JFTR mean?

Joran did cancel his arrangement with Ms Hollaway's mother. She contacted the FBI and the Dutch Television station, and then initiated contact with Joran suggesting that she wanted to pursue his offer to give him money in exchange for him telling her where her daughter could be found. He made the offer, he cancelled the offer, she pursued it. He went along with it and I understood that he received $10k, but perhaps it was the full $25k that he originally mentioned. I thought her offer made it closer to $10k and that he counted it out in the hotel under the watchful eye of the FBI and her lawyer ... a bit like a sting. FBI were notified by Aruban authorities that Joran had left the Island and was on his way to Peru. He was vulnerable to being sent (expelled or extradicted) to the US after leaving Aruba, which was exactly what FBI and Ms Holloway's mother were hoping - they just didn't get the paperwork done fast enough (unlike the Chileans/Peruvians with their May 13 date). The Dutch Television crew was probably in it for the ratings ... as it was they had to settle for flying Ms Holloway's mother to Peru, sneak her into the jail and let her finally say what she had to say. Peter was sure disappointed with that interview!

 

[annalia]

What does JFTR mean?

I thought her offer made it closer to $10k and that he counted it out in the hotel under the watchful eye of the FBI and her lawyer ... a bit like a sting. FBI were notified by Aruban authorities that Joran had left the Island and was on his way to Peru. He was vulnerable to being sent (expelled or extradicted) to the US after leaving Aruba, which was exactly what FBI and Ms Holloway's mother were hoping - they just didn't get the paperwork done fast enough (unlike the Chileans/Peruvians with their May 13 date). !

snipped and bolded by me

Totally false, just more bs put out by JVDS' camp to deflect everything onto his victim.

The truth is that there was never a need either by the FBI or Beth to see Joran leave Aruba so they could extradite him. Their treaty states that he could have been extradited from Aruba to the US for his financial crime. Surely the FBI was already fully aware of this since they were running it and working closely with Aruban officials.

There was also an interview by Greta where she spoke directly to Aruban prosecutor, who confirmed that he could indeed have been extradited to the US from Aruba.

And as far as it being under the watchful eye of the FBI, so what? That is no different than when the FBI wires someone and then sends them in while they listen, or when someone wants to hire someone to kill another person, the FBI goes in and films a fake transaction. It's not an uncommon practice.

 

[otto]

And as far as it being under the watchful eye of the FBI, so what? That is no different than when the FBI wires someone and then sends them in while they listen, or when someone wants to hire someone to kill another person, the FBI goes in and films a fake transaction. It's not an uncommon practice.

<snipped>

The big difference is that the FBI has jurisdiction in the US, not the world, so any monkey business they were doing in Aruba requires a lot more paperwork than, for example, listening to men from Maryland plot to murder their online dates. Any paperwork the FBI wanted to file about extradicting Dutch citizens contacted by US women about money for information would not be a smooth process.