Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #5

[merlin]

Please don't shoot me, but...If Elton was staying in the same hotel, why didn't he just go knock on the door when Joran missed his dinner appointment with Elton? Something is odd about this person's involvement with Joran and the events that follow. I wonder if the two of them were up to something. Maybe the two, Elton and Joran, talked theoretically about how to get more cash... The whole thing just seems odd, the relationship with the May date and Natalie, this Elton character, and the apparent brutality. Also, why is Stephanie going with Joran to his room at that hour since she is not going to become involved with him? Who in their right mind goes to a hotel room with a strange male especially at that hour - what was the point, to get more cash before going out to eat or something? What did he tell her to get her to his room? Notice in the video, they are not walking arm in arm; she is behind him. Even at the door to the room, they don't appear "cozy". She doesn't seem impaired; unlike the video of Natalie where she clearly was under the influence of something. They are going to the room for something other than physical involvement - what? Maybe he offered drugs? I'm not saying she used drugs, but why go there? What would make a young woman trust him? What did he tell her to make her trust him? NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT THE PERPETRATOR. PLEASE DON'T MISTAKE MY QUESTIONS OR POST AS AN INDICTMENT or BLAME OF THE VICTIM; THAT IS NOT WHAT I INTEND. There is something that is just odd about all the circumstances. It is so sad that the issues were not resolved with Natalie in Aruba five years ago so much additional pain and sorrow could have been avoided. My heart goes out to Stephanie and her family as well as the Holloways.

The book, "People of the Lie", discusses the difference between regular people and people that commit horrendous crimes. Basically it talks about regular people want to understand how something could have happened, they want to package it for their perspective. In other words, what would make THEM do something this awful, be it child abuse, bad upbringing, bad circumstances, mental illness etc.. but the point is these people don't think, act, or respond like normal people - they are people of the lie.

 

[froginTtown]

Whew, that rules out Spiderman! :crazy:

Yeah, that would of been a heck of man hunt wouldn't it... :banghead:

 

[Cher352]

Just a new article from cnn.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.victim.joran/

That article also stated that he had the bloody clothes on him when they got him in Chile. Don't understand why he didn't get rid of them somewhere...I mean he did stop somewhere to do his hair.

 

[marmar]

Just a new article from cnn.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.victim.joran/

What a heartbreaking article to read. Can you imagine knowing nothing about this guy, then googling his name, along with knowing that your sister is missing and she was last seen with him. The panic they must have felt, ugh.

 

[butterfly7]

That article also stated that he had the bloody clothes on him when they got him in Chile. Don't understand why he didn't get rid of them somewhere...I mean he did stop somewhere to do his hair.

Maybe it wasn't blood, but used when he did the hair dye??? By the way, did anyone ever read if the hotel key was still in the room or where??? Have a reason for asking.

 

[AbbieNormal]

I heard that the hotel held his passport, that is why he didn't stop at the desk to check-out. If he took his passport, then they would have gone to his room to get it ready for the next visitor. Holding the passport would assure that a foreigner would pay the hotel bill.

Is he seen on the video getting his key back when he and Stephany arrive at the hotel after5am that day? If not, if he just strolled on in, I doubt the passport/key issue is real. JMO
Cos he had to have his passport so the casino could copy it, right? So he cmae from the casino back to hotel, he would have had his passport...would need to turn it in to the hotel again to get his key back...SWIM?

 

[AbbieNormal]

Just a new article from cnn.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.victim.joran/

Whew, Enrique has some pretty bad eyesight!! JMO Joran is about as close to Brad Pitt looking as I am to Sandra Bullock looking. LOL

 

[strawberry]

I was wondering...in Peru they have an investigative system. Do perps have the right to remain silent?

 

[Beyond Belief]

I don't know about the remaining silent, but I would be almost positive that he is entitled to have an interpretor. In the video of him being fingerprinted he asked alot of questions with no interpretor. I think that would fall under some kind of international law. Well, maybe.

 

[md89]

In the beginning of this video you can see the guy at the left (you can only see his hand) holding Jorans passport. I don't know if he had it with him when he was arrested. I think he did because this is filmed in the same room where they look at all his belongings.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xI4eOf9VDg&feature=player_embedded"]Joran[/ame]

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I will be honest and say that I wasn't comfortable with the way the Dutch (Aruba) media protrayed Natalee. I can't figure out what the Dutch see in Joran or what the family connections are but they insist that the world see Joran as a good boy when he has continually proved otherwise.

Bringing this forward from page 4 of thread - excellent post!

Can't take it but sure can dish it out; that doesn't even fit because one deserves it and the other did not. :furious:

 

[froginTtown]

I don't know about the remaining silent, but I would be almost positive that he is entitled to have an interpretor. In the video of him being fingerprinted he asked alot of questions with no interpretor. I think that would fall under some kind of international law. Well, maybe.

HLN just said they are waiting for an interpretor before they charge him..

 

[Columbo]

Hmmm, I find this article, if accurate, very very interesting, and it also makes me a little bit nervous.

He says he was absolutely not a friend of Joran, just someone he met there. Then he goes on to say he was worried that they were both kidnapped and asks the Casino owner to call Joran's room? WTH. Who does that for someone you just met, and what on earth made him assume they were both kidnapped. I didn't want to have any doubts about JVDS and this situation but there's something about this story that just doesn't make sense.

This story doesn't seem strange to me, it actually makes me think that Joran will eventually be convicted.

Prosecutor: Why didn't you meet your friend for dinner?
WAS IT BECAUSE YOU KILLED STEPHANY?

Prosecutor: Why didn't you show up for the 9:00 pm meeting with your friend?
WAS IT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY FAST?

I can only assume since both of them were foreigners, then they talked about kidnappings in Peru. When Joran pulled a couple of no shows then he thought Joran might be kidnapped.

I doubt this friend would go to the cops if he took part in or had knowledge of any type of set-up/murder

Nope this solidifys the fact that Joran acted alone.[/quote]

bolded by me.

(Editing this to show that cat thief wrote the part above ; her post had the boxed post in it. I may not have done the quote right. Hope this makes sense!)

It doesn't seem strange to me, either.

Kidnappers tend to target wealthy or well-known people and Stephany was from a prominent family. Having been in the poker tournament, both might have been carrying a lot of cash. Travelers in Peru know of the kidnap dangers, and the Albanian would have been aware of the problem.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Prisoners' rights

Another group whose basic rights are protected is made up of prisoners, people accused of crimes and other people in detention (for example, asylum seekers).
International treaties set out a list of basic procedural - due process - rights which must apply in every criminal trial. These are familiar to Australia's inherited common law system and most are well recognised here. They include the right to silence, to be considered innocent until proven guilty, to be tried by a competent and independent tribunal in public, the right to an interpreter and to legal assistance.
All prisoners and detainees are entitled to be treated with humanity and with respect for their inherent dignity as human beings.

What are international human rights?http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights/human_rights_dialogue/international.html

I don't know if this applies to Peru, its seems to be an Australian site.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wow. It was painful to watch police handle that evidence so carelessly. No gloves, no holding things by the edges, no evidence bags. Nothing. Just rifling through things, getting their fingerprints and DNA all over it, and throwing it back in his backpack.

I guess they don't rely on forensics much down there.

I've read several posts commenting on this - remember that in Peru when they catch the person they think is responsible for a crime, it is his duty to prove he is not guilty. Most of us tend to think in terms of the way we're used to seeing things done. They already think Joran is responsible for Stephany's death so they're not too concerned about protecting any evidence just seeing what's there is all.

Back to trying to catch up - only 30+ pages to go!

I've caught up to here now - I see this post was a day late and a dollar short! I'm still pages behind!

 

[Columbo]

Lots of people have posted this is common practice in hotels like this in south america. The person doesn't get their passport back until they check out and pay their bill in full.

Sorry if someone already posted this,or maybe my brain isn't working right this morning, but how could he cross the border to Chile without his passport?

 

[butterfly7]

In the beginning of this video you can see the guy at the left (you can only see his hand) holding Jorans passport. I don't know if he had it with him when he was arrested. I think he did because this is filmed in the same room where they look at all his belongings.

Joran

So that means the hotel only had a copy of his passport and therefore the hotel key was left in the room, is still on him or ??? JMO

 

[Dreya]

New article on el comercio. From what I can tell by the translation:

*there are four guards watching him to prevent suicide or harm from anyone else
*he's sharing a cell with another inmate accused of murder
*He's eaten and slept so he can't use exhaustion as a reason not to cooperate
*based on previous footage of him in police custody he speaks passable spanish so the request for an interpreter may be him stalling before he has to answer questions? Not sure about this interpretation of the translation!


http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://elcomercio.pe/&ei=vlkKTOG7MYT48Aao4NCNBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ7gEwAA&prev=/search?q=el+comercio+peru&hl=en

 

[md89]

So that means the hotel only had a copy of his passport and therefore the hotel key was left in the room, is still on him or ??? JMO

Good question! In the video surveillance you can see Joran locking the door with his key so I guess it's not one of those doors that locks automatically when you shut it. If he left the key in the room the door would have been open (I mean not locked). I don't know if that was the case? I think I read somewhere that the door was eventually opened using a spare key. My guess is that he took the key with him.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Sorry if someone already posted this,or maybe my brain isn't working right this morning, but how could he cross the border to Chile without his passport?

I can't imagine one would surrender their actual Passport to a hotel. They probably make a copy of it and keep it to identify who's staying in the hotel and then hand the original back to the guest. I would never give my Passport to anybody to keep - I'd always keep it with me while in a foreign country.