GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[LAborn]

I believe the whole objective of the prosecution and court is to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom. The prosecutor didn’t have to accept the plea and nor did the judge.

The families will always have to worry until the murderer no longer takes breath. Look what happened with the Menendez brothers and what if some misguided governor decides to pardon him.

Of course the court has to accept when someone pleads guilty! LOL This convo is getting absurd.

 

[AngTxGal]

I believe the whole objective of the prosecution and court is to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom. The prosecutor didn’t have to accept the plea and nor did the judge.

The families will always have to worry until the murderer no longer takes breath. Look what happened with the Menendez brothers and what if some misguided governor decides to pardon him.

But a trial would not have secured a guilty verdict, or the death penalty.
And a guilty verdict with the death penalty doesn’t mean death for 20-40 years.

Hmm, I think anyone would agree that a sure thing is better than an unsure thing.
They got a sure thing- he admitted to what he did, no parole, no appeals, and no getting out for 10 years + 4 life sentences.

Is this at all similar to the Menendez brothers? No. They have already spent 35 years in prison.
If their crime was committed today they may not go to prison at all. The way we see, know about, and deal with sexual abuse of children is very different as compared to 1989.

In 2012 a man in Texas caught another man sexually abusing his daughter- he beat the man to death. He was not arrested. Texan Kills Daughter’s Molester

IMO

 

[browneyes]

Freedom of opinions here, of course, but to me it seems as if these two sentences actually contradict each other.

They will have no rest, as you state, until the “murderer ceases to breathe.” Next you state (and I agree), that you don’t believe “there is ever any cessation to the grief.”

Therefore, Steve could watch Bryan be killed, four times if that were possible, but it would not end his grief over losing Kaylee.

Also, it’s impossible to both kill and not kill Bryan. The wishes of the two families that wanted this plea deal are no less important, just because they carry their grief differently.

I’m a mother and a grandmother, and I don’t know how I’d ever find peace if this happened in my family.

The trouble IMO is not that Steve is loud, he should be loud if that’s what he needs, but that he is implicitly suggesting violence with this talk about Idaho vs. a Pennsylvania “city boy.” Which, by the way, Bryan lived a rural life. Steve is just talking in code.

I have earlier posts in these threads asking for grace for Steve, but he can’t step over the line this way. He is a law-abiding man who loves his family——he needs to avoid making trouble so his family can heal slowly.

One day I hope he’ll thank Judge Hippler for his rulings that forced Bryan and AT to give up. It was the defense, not the prosecution, who wanted a plea deal.

All moo

Very well said. I would just like to add that DM and BF will be spared the horror of reliving that horrible night, having their actions questioned and their memories contradicted. They are young victims as well who will probably never feel absolute safety again in their lives, IMO. This decision far outweighs just what would satisfy one or two families. I pray everyone affected can begin to heal and move forward as best as possible.

 

[AcousticViper]

I don't see him ditching the knife that early. Especially in a body of water. Magnet fishing is growing in popularity. Scuba divers sweep under bridges for old relics and "treasure". He wanted to keep that knife, I'm sure. Not on his person or property. At a safe distance.

If I were a betting man (I'm not), I'd wager it was in his vehicle when he travelled back home to Pennsylvania for the holidays. He may have ditched it forever after the two police stops.

Place yourself in his shoes. Increasingly fatigued, the last thing you want to do is draw the curtains and block all light for the entire day. It might draw suspicion.

"'Thinking back, I didn't see or hear a sound from him all day,' his closest neighbour stated" is not the kind of comment you want to read in the paper later on.

Perhaps he overcompensated. Told his family that he had slept well, was full of energy, and wanted to make most of the day by exploring the region. That plan included backtracking on his path the night before, on his way to Lewiston. Find a quiet place, out of the way, to begin cleaning his vehicle.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I believe that once the murderer is dead, the families can rest as to one aspect, i.e., that the person responsible for their devastation can no longer enjoy watching tv, exercising, even if it is just for a short time, eating, even if it is just commissary snacks, etc. Their grief for their children will never fade.

As long as SG isn’t paying someone to kill the murderer, yes, i believe we should give him the grace to release his anger and express his hopes for that person’s demise anytime he feels inclined. IMO

We don't have DP in my country. Most killers in my country get out of prison after laughable and cursory short sentences. Even the ones who have perpetrated horrific multiple offences have the right to appeal. Just knowing BK is 'away' for a whole life order with no parole ought to be a great relief to many surely?

I can understand that if a murderer were given the DP, they can never harm anyone again, including not anyone else inside the prison or any fellow inmate, they also cannot escape and hurt another person. However, those risks are tiny. I'd have thought a person could take comfort knowing BK is never going to trouble anyone again.

 

[Ghostwheel]

It’s not what our justice system is based on. BK will never be punished enough for his heinous actions, but he plainly stated he premeditated the murders and accepts responsibility…as cold as he was. It matters that the prosecution has ensured he can never, ever hurt anyone again. In our society, it’s the just outcome. JMHO

Except they haven't insured that. People die when inmates escape. (See my link above for just one case).

The justice system in Idaho included the DP as a possibility. That would be a death for a death. But with the plea, that was taken off the table, so justice ("being what is merited") is now not possible.

I'm just trying to make clear that for people who believe it in their heart and soul, death for a death is just and anything else is not. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but they are entitled to their belief. For at least the ones I know, death for a death is "punished enough". If someone can kill without any fear of losing their own life, prison is not such a deterrent to that kind of person.

BTW, I am more flexible on this, but I respect others beliefs about it. It's a topic of discussion amongst my friends.

 

[Arkay]

As long as SG isn’t paying someone to kill the murderer, yes, i believe we should give him the grace to release his anger and express his hopes for that person’s demise anytime he feels inclined. IMO

Yes, expressing anger and wishing BK dead are normal reactions to this horrific loss.

But what he’s doing now is calling for a political uprising against the judge, and a violent uprising in prison against Bryan.

That he just cannot do without eventually getting in trouble.

Inciting a riot or violence by speaking in code to prisoners is not going to honor his daughter’s memory, IMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Of course the court has to accept when someone pleads guilty! LOL This convo is getting absurd.

For reference

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-the-judge-reject-plea-deal.html

 

[LAborn]

Except they haven't insured that. People die when inmates escape. (See my link above for just one case).

The justice system in Idaho included the DP as a possibility. That would be a death for a death. But with the plea, that was taken off the table, so justice ("being what is merited") is now not possible.

I'm just trying to make clear that for people who believe it in their heart and soul, death for a death is just and anything else is not. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but they are entitled to their belief. For at least the ones I know, death for a death is "punished enough". If someone can kill without any fear of losing their own life, prison is not such a deterrent to that kind of person.

BTW, I am more flexible on this, but I respect others beliefs about it. It's a topic of discussion amongst my friends.

Not sure how many times this has to be said. BK plead guilty, that changes everything. The court can't just merrily go along with the trial now. The DA got the max. The "what if" BK does x, y, z in prison or escapes prison is bizarre.

 

[Jw192]

I believe the whole objective of the prosecution and court is to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom. The prosecutor didn’t have to accept the plea and nor did the judge.

The families will always have to worry until the murderer no longer takes breath. Look what happened with the Menendez brothers and what if some misguided governor decides to pardon him.

See, that part I do somewhat agree with as I'm one of the few (I believe) that isn't exactly comfortable with the menendez situation. That said, the two cases are not comparable imo.
You yourself just stated above "to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom." Well justice is there is it not? We have an admitted confession of guilt and what will most certainly be a complete LWOP plus zero chance of appeals - the things that span over years, decades even and are proven to cause prolonged and repeated trauma and pain for victims family members.
I was shocked as hell at the plea deal, but not because the prosecution agreed to one - any prosecution worth their silk would not turn down a guilty plea on a quadruple homicide to roll the dice at trial, no matter the evidence - I was shocked because that ghoul clearly imo gets off on the lot of this. The planning, the crime, the immediate aftermath and the entire judicial procedure. He gets off on the pain and I was very surprised that he didn't see out "his show" in full with trial.
Imo SG is giving that devil EXACTLY what he wants by attention and weird attempts to go balls to balls up against him in a sense. He's giving him what he wants by SG attacking the very people who are actually legally defending his daughter, Ethan, Xana and Maddie. He's playing into his creepy boney hands and doesn't even know it.
Justice has been done and it's been done in the best interests of the two surviving victims who would have had to relive the most terrifying and traumatic night of their lives to not only a full court of people, but to hundreds of thousands of people on a live stream which would then be on YouTube for the rest of ever with every streamer gifter, deranged proberger and everyone else analysing their every word and action that tragic night/morning. Not only that, but they would be testifying in front of the specimen who butchered their friends. Why isn't their feelings and mental wellbeing as important as SG's to some people? Because he goes on Banfield and any media outlet who wants to rile him up and is loud? Does that make him and his grief more important than the Chapins who have been extremely quiet in front of the media, but have made it clear that they are relieved with the outcome of justice? How about Maddie's family? Is their wanting to move on after the plea worth less than SG's t-shirt with a firing squad slogan?
I could go on and on and on about how juries are more and more unpredictable lately and how no matter how good the evidence in a case is, it takes ONE juror. ONE. The death penalty that SG states he was robbed of was never a certainty, far far from it, not in a court room and not even 15-20 years from now when BK would still be sat in a cell surrounded by hundreds of lengthy appeal documents.

Justice has been done and SG needs to stay off the news, the internet and see a damn good grief therapist and hopefully in future he will channel all of that passion and love into something beautiful and helpful to law for his beloved Kaylee.

 

[LAborn]

For reference

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-the-judge-reject-plea-deal.html

Not clicking on a link. What's the gist?

 

[Ghostwheel]

Not sure how many times this has to be said. BK plead guilty, that changes everything. The court can't just merrily go along with the trial now. The DA got the max. The "what if" BK does x, y, z in prison or escapes prison is bizarre.

Let me try again. People keep saying this is justice.

Not to some people it is not. It is not a death for a death. His pleading guilty does not change that this is not justice to them.

Btw, did you read the link I posted upstream about the escapee who killed five people? Have you read about Ted Bundy? Escaping from prison is not so bizarre. I can probably find many more cases like that.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Not clicking on a link. What's the gist?

Yes, they can reject a guilty plea

 

[wildblue]

Agree, I didn't even address the Menendez aspect of their comment. If their trial had happened today, their lifetime of sexual abuse by father would have been a factor and they would already be released (if convicted at all).

SA by their father, only per two murderers wanting to get away with their crimes, including the brutal murder of their innocent mother.

 

[LAborn]

Let me try again. People keep saying this is justice.

Not to some people it is not. It is not a death for a death. His pleading guilty does not change that this is not justice to them.

Btw, did you read the link I posted upstream about the escapee who killed five people? Have you read about Ted Bundy? Escaping from prison is not so bizarre. I can probably find many more cases like that.

This is a moral and philosophical discussion. SG proudly wore a cap with a white crucifix on it during his interview on Banfield. I'm guessing because he's a Christian. The old testament touts "an eye for an eye", but the new testament, that has the symbol of the cross representing Christ's death on the crucifix teaches "turn the other cheek". If he claims Christianity, he can't also embrace an eye for an eye. So there seems to be much hypocrisy going on here. I don't click on links unknown to me, so no.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Agreed. Like I said in a previous comment, SG is never going to have an iota of satisfaction until his version of justice happens where he is put into a room with BK alone and no legal repercussions would result from the outcome - a version of justice that cannot and will not ever exist. I repeat that my heart breaks for his unfathomable pain, just as it does for the other families and BK can rot in hell for all care, butttt I hate to say this but SG has lost it, almost completely. He's lashing out at the people who HAVE gotten justice for HIS daughter and has been in a sense since the get go. I've tried to look away each and every time he has done something in the media or online which had the potential to be harmful to the case. I've done my best to understand when he attempted to take the whole investigation into his own hands with some private investigator and random internet clout chasers. Plus much more. I knew that I couldn't possibly understand what pain he (and the other families are going through) and I also know that despite the many I's there, it's not about me or any of us. What I will say now and I feel awful saying it, but that's what it's come to, it isn't about SG! His pain, anger and loss isn't the most important thing here, far from it. Justice for FOUR dead college students and TWO living survivors is what's important. Justice that keeps an extremely violent and dangerous criminal behind bars for the rest of his natural life without ever ever getting the chance to be free to kill again is what is ACTUALLY important.
I apologise if people don't agree with me and please feel free to do so, but this whole SG show has to stop. He's feeding off the media imo and boy are they feeding off of him. The media are not his friends or allies and he needs to realise that sharpish. There are 3 other sets of families who have had their beloved children ripped away in the exact same horrific way and their feelings matter just as much as his. I truly hope that his loved ones rally round him and get him some help before he crosses any more over the line as the last thing I or anybody would want to see is him having to experience the prison "daycare" he imagines

In my very sad to say opinion.

And I agree, and it is indeed a very sad opinion. I feared for the case every time SG opened his mouth to criticize the very people trying first to find the killer and then to make sure he could never do it again. How could a jury believe LE and the prosecutor if SG was attacking them publicly?

I think people forget that this was a stranger homicide, a "burglary" or home invasion by someone unconnected to the victims. Those are notoriously hard to solve. LE did a great job, in my opinion.

 

[wildblue]

See, that part I do somewhat agree with as I'm one of the few (I believe) that isn't exactly comfortable with the menendez situation. That said, the two cases are not comparable imo.
You yourself just stated above "to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom." Well justice is there is it not? We have an admitted confession of guilt and what will most certainly be a complete LWOP plus zero chance of appeals - the things that span over years, decades even and are proven to cause prolonged and repeated trauma and pain for victims family members.
I was shocked as hell at the plea deal, but not because the prosecution agreed to one - any prosecution worth their silk would not turn down a guilty plea on a quadruple homicide to roll the dice at trial, no matter the evidence - I was shocked because that ghoul clearly imo gets off on the lot of this. The planning, the crime, the immediate aftermath and the entire judicial procedure. He gets off on the pain and I was very surprised that he didn't see out "his show" in full with trial.
Imo SG is giving that devil EXACTLY what he wants by attention and weird attempts to go balls to balls up against him in a sense. He's giving him what he wants by SG attacking the very people who are actually legally defending his daughter, Ethan, Xana and Maddie. He's playing into his creepy boney hands and doesn't even know it.
Justice has been done and it's been done in the best interests of the two surviving victims who would have had to relive the most terrifying and traumatic night of their lives to not only a full court of people, but to hundreds of thousands of people on a live stream which would then be on YouTube for the rest of ever with every streamer gifter, deranged proberger and everyone else analysing their every word and action that tragic night/morning. Not only that, but they would be testifying in front of the specimen who butchered their friends. Why isn't their feelings and mental wellbeing as important as SG's to some people? Because he goes on Banfield and any media outlet who wants to rile him up and is loud? Does that make him and his grief more important than the Chapins who have been extremely quiet in front of the media, but have made it clear that they are relieved with the outcome of justice? How about Maddie's family? Is their wanting to move on after the plea worth less than SG's t-shirt with a firing squad slogan?
I could go on and on and on about how juries are more and more unpredictable lately and how no matter how good the evidence in a case is, it takes ONE juror. ONE. The death penalty that SG states he was robbed of was never a certainty, far far from it, not in a court room and not even 15-20 years from now when BK would still be sat in a cell surrounded by hundreds of lengthy appeal documents.

Justice has been done and SG needs to stay off the news, the internet and see a damn good grief therapist and hopefully in future he will channel all of that passion and love into something beautiful and helpful to law for his beloved Kaylee.

If it helps him and his form of advocacy for the rights of victims and their families, he should blast his voice on all available mediums until the rights of victims are of utmost importance, over the price of a trial, over the personal beliefs of a prosecutor, etc

 

[Jw192]

If it helps him and his form of advocacy for the rights of victims and their families, he should blast his voice on all available mediums until the rights of victims are of utmost importance, over the price of a trial, over the personal beliefs of a prosecutor, etc

Respectfully he doesn't give a damn what the two surviving victims in this case want, nor the other families who have stated they are satisfied with the verdict - families who have lost exactly the same as he has - SG isn't advocating for the rights of victims and their families. SG is advocating for HIMSELF and his own version of justice that imo doesn't exist. I understand that it's grief swirling around inside of an angry and outspoken man right now but please don't lie and say he's even remotely advocating for anybody but himself. It's not all about him and what he wants, it's about justice and keeping the public safe from a dangerous freak and I'm sorry, but justice has been done.

ETA - Please show me where money has been stated to be the reason for accepting the plea deal over justice. Also, please show me where any of the prosecution team have stated that they were against the DP in this case... If that was even remotely the case then they wouldn't have blocked AT every which way and more when she tried to knock it off the table repeatedly.

Reaching so far now I can circle the palm from here

 

[LAborn]

Respectfully he doesn't give a damn what the two surviving victims in this case want, nor the other families who have stated they are satisfied with the verdict - families who have lost exactly the same as he has - SG isn't advocating for the rights of victims and their families. SG is abdicating for HIMSELF and his own version of justice that imo doesn't exist. I understand that it's grief swirling around inside of an angry and outspoken man right now but please don't lie and say he's even remotely advocating for anybody but himself. It's not all about him and what he wants, it's about justice and keeping the public safe from a dangerous freak and I'm sorry, but justice has been done.

100%. If I had to guess, I bet his own family doesn't agree with his recent actions.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

For reference

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-the-judge-reject-plea-deal.html

This was the purpose of the series of carefully crafted questions that Judge Hippler posed to BK. Had BK said he was coerced or had changed his mind or didn't understand, then no judge could accept it. In this case, BK had nearly 3 years of advice from a highly accomplished and committed death-qualified defense attorney, who sat beside him and had signed the plea deal herself. He didn't plead NOLO. He pleaded guilty to each count.

If it helps him and his form of advocacy for the rights of victims and their families, he should blast his voice on all available mediums until the rights of victims are of utmost importance, over the price of a trial, over the personal beliefs of a prosecutor, etc

The prosecutor was seeking the death penalty. The defense asked for a plea deal, so let's not hang any of this on the "personal beliefs of a prosecutor" or "the price of a trial" or anything other than BK didn't want to go to trial.