GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[Magic8Ball]

This may be true but is doesn’t make it right. The victims’ families deserve a voice as it was their loved ones who were brutally taken from them. Again, it’s presumptuous for prosecutors to say what’s in the families’ best interest and if they aren’t considering the families then they are making the choice based on cost and their own beliefs.

BBM:

It is NOT the job of prosecutors to decide what's in the families' best interest.

It's their job to decide what's in the best interest of the State of Idaho and its residents.

It is most definitely in the best interests of citizens of Idaho, and in fact all of the US, for BK to be locked up forever X 4 with neither the possibility of parole nor the right of appeal.

Their priority in this case needs to be the public's safety.
Not SG's desire for retribution.

 

[wildblue]

Envisioning it in your own head or writing about it in your journal or similar wouldn't be odd, distasteful etc, it's the public expression of what SG is envisioning along with inciting others to carry out the death that is the problem.

IMO

SG never specifically asked for someone to kill the murderer not offered anything for it to be done. He has every right to hope that it happens and express his anger at the person who brutally butchered his beloved daughter. If someone in the prison commits such a murder, that’s on them, not SG. He has a public platform through no fault of his own. He would gladly give it up to have his child alive and safe.

 

[seasideForest]

His reaction is understandable considering that he feels no one in that courtroom cares about his or his family’s feelings in this matter. It would be like speaking to a brick wall of a disgustingly smug murderer and a court that is concerned more with dollars and being done than true justice. IMO

"No one in that courtroom cares..."? I think you're exaggerating, spot of hyperbole.

IMO law and feeling don't go quite hand-in-hand. That may be unfortunate in some respects but in other respects it's very important to consider only hard facts and to follow logic. Feelings are not necessarily logical.

Likewise the definition of "true justice" is going to vary person to person, based on things like feelings, and so IMO the carrying out of "true justice", whatever you or SG or anybody else believes that to be, is not possible or even advisable under most codes of law / legal systems, including that of the US or Idaho.

All IMO

ETA: "or Idaho"

 

[Lilibet]

Justice has been done and SG needs to stay off the news, the internet and see a damn good grief therapist and hopefully in future he will channel all of that passion and love into something beautiful and helpful to law for his beloved Kaylee.

BBM
I agree 100%. My heart goes out to all the living victims of BK. I wish them eventual peace and happy memories.

 

[wildblue]

BBM:

It is NOT the job of prosecutors to decide what's in the families' best interest.

It's their job to decide what's in the best interest of the State of Idaho and its residents.

It is most definitely in the citizens of Idaho, and in fact all of the US, for BK to be locked up with neither the possibility of parole nor the right of appeal.

Their priority in this case needs to be the public's safety.
Not SG's desire for retribution.

As we’ve discussed, despite the parameters of the plea, it could change in future to allow him out. Yes, they represent the state and not the victims or families but it’s sickening that such decisions are made without considering them. They have already lost so much and then to be deprived of a voice in the matter is untenable and should be changed. It’s also not the job of a prosecutor to decide based on what’s in his best interest, i.e., his political agenda, want for retirement, etc. SG and other family members can still desire retribution and can talk about it all they want. They are also free to discuss the cowardly actions if the prosecution team all they want.

 

[DizzyB]

I can’t fathom what Steve is going through, thank goodness. I hope to never walk in his shoes. He is not the enemy, he has been put in this position by BK. Is he a horrible person because he wishes death upon a person who brutally butchered his child? Took away her future, a life, grandchildren, a whole family who are damaged forever? Steve might be crazy but I hope I never have to feel that kind of crazy. Don’t judge a man until you feel that level of pain.

 

[wildblue]

"No one in that courtroom cares..."? I think you're exaggerating, spot of hyperbole.

IMO law and feeling don't go quite hand-in-hand. That may be unfortunate in some respects but in other respects it's very important to consider only hard facts and to follow logic. Feelings are not necessarily logical.

Likewise the definition of "true justice" is going to vary person to person, based on things like feelings, and so IMO the carrying out of "true justice", whatever you or SG or anybody else believes that to be, is not possible or even advisable under most codes of law / legal systems, including that of the US.

All IMO

I’m saying that’s how SG, based on his interviews, feels about pouring out his heart to a cowardly murderer, a prosecution team he feels failed them and a judge who would rather chastise the families than the murderer. True justice, in SG’s option, was the death penalty and yes, that’s an option in their state.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

This may be true but is doesn’t make it right. The victims’ families deserve a voice as it was their loved ones who were brutally taken from them. Again, it’s presumptuous for prosecutors to say what’s in the families’ best interest and if they aren’t considering the families then they are making the choice based on cost and their own beliefs.

No. The prosecutor makes the decision based on a professional evaluation of what is in the best interest of the citizens of Idaho. The prosecution settled, with that guilty plea, once and for all time, who killed Kaylee, Maddie, Xana and Ethan. That's the purpose of a trial--not retribution or revenge or "considering the families." A person was accused. The trial was to determine whether he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. A guilty plea means there's no need for 12 people to spend months looking at evidence to get to a verdict.

SG has had nothing BUT voice from the very beginning. He gives interview, goes on podcasts, talks to the press, criticizes the people who solved the crime, criticizes the people trying to get BK off the street, and insinuates that some good Idaho prison inmate should do for Bryan what the state declined to do. He's got social media accounts where he expresses himself. He is free to spend the rest of his natural life criticizing the very people who got this monster to confess.

Who didn't have and doesn't have a voice are the two survivors, who as witnesses couldn't tell their side of the story to the media, even when people speculated that they were involved in the killings. Who doesn't have a voice are the innocent people who were accused of murder and vilified on social media. Who doesn't have a voice are the two young people who found the bodies--again, they were to be witnesses, so they can't comment.

The justice system is not a forum for one man's revenge.

 

[Arkay]

This may be true but is doesn’t make it right. The victims’ families deserve a voice as it was their loved ones who were brutally taken from them. Again, it’s presumptuous for prosecutors to say what’s in the families’ best interest and if they aren’t considering the families then they are making the choice based on cost and their own beliefs.

Again, how would you split the baby here?

Half the families wanted the plea deal and half didn’t.

They’re not a monolith. In the divorced families, one ex-spouse wants something different than the other parent.

There is no way in real life to serve them all in the different outcomes that they wanted.

IMO, the permanence of this decision outweighs the uncertainty of waiting and hoping for a unanimous jury verdict of Guilty. That was not guaranteed at all.

All along the defense tried to shoo away the evidence that Bryan alone killed them all.

Now Bryan, the one who knows, the one who remembers, has spoken out. He did it, he did it, he did it, he did it.

Four times, each with premeditation and malice aforethought. Plus the burglary. He did it.

There are families all over the U.S. praying for a cut and dried outcome like this for their murdered relatives.

JMO

 

[wildblue]

I can’t fathom what Steve is going through, thank goodness. I hope to never walk in his shoes. He is not the enemy, he has been put in this position by BK. Is he a horrible person because he wishes death upon a person who brutally butchered his child? Took away her future, a life, grandchildren, a whole family who are damaged forever? Steve might be crazy but I hope I never have to feel that kind of crazy. Don’t judge a man until you feel that level of pain.

Thank you for bringing this conversation back to what truly matters, the lives taken and the families’s pain at their profound loss.

 

[wildblue]

No. The prosecutor makes the decision based on a professional evaluation of what is in the best interest of the citizens of Idaho. The prosecution settled, with that guilty plea, once and for all time, who killed Kaylee, Maddie, Xana and Ethan. That's the purpose of a trial--not retribution or revenge or "considering the families." A person was accused. The trial was to determine whether he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. A guilty plea means there's no need for 12 people to spend months looking at evidence to get to a verdict.

SG has had nothing BUT voice from the very beginning. He gives interview, goes on podcasts, talks to the press, criticizes the people who solved the crime, criticizes the people trying to get BK off the street, and insinuates that some good Idaho prison inmate should do for Bryan what the state declined to do. He's got social media accounts where he expresses himself. He is free to spend the rest of his natural life criticizing the very people who got this monster to confess.

Who didn't have and doesn't have a voice are the two survivors, who as witnesses couldn't tell their side of the story to the media, even when people speculated that they were involved in the killings. Who doesn't have a voice are the innocent people who were accused of murder and vilified on social media. Who doesn't have a voice are the two young people who found the bodies--again, they were to be witnesses, so they can't comment.

The justice system is not a forum for one man's revenge.

Yes, and a large population supports SG in vocalizing his anger, pain and despair. We hope his speaking out can force some changes so that families suffering similar losses in the future feel heard. And, btw, no one got the monster to confess. The murderer was fearful for his own pathetic life and facing the firing squad having run out of defense options, that IMO, is the only reason he confessed.

 

[seasideForest]

Eye for an eye. Death for a death. This is truly what some believe.

What "some believe" doesn't necessarily fit in the justice system/legal system of Idaho.
MOO

 

[xjd11]

Just want to add, they do all care deeply, AT too.

yes, I feel sympathy for AT, she had an unenviable assignment. but in the end, she did her job; protected him from the DP

 

[wildblue]

yes, I feel sympathy for AT, she had an unenviable assignment. but in the end, she did her job; protected him from the DP

She may have done her job but the smiling at, laughing with and touching and petting her murderous client are reprehensible displays in front of the families who lost their loved ones. <modsnip: name calling>

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes, and a large population supports SG in vocalizing his anger, pain and despair. We hope his speaking out can force some changes so that families suffering similar losses in the future feel heard. And, btw, no one got the monster to confess. The murderer was fearful for his own pathetic life and facing the firing squad having run out of defense options, that IMO, is the only reason he confessed.

Look: BK feared the death penalty because (1) he is guilty; (2) law enforcement gathered sufficient evidence to charge him with premeditated murder; (3) the prosecution's evidence as evaluated by BK's attorneys was very strong; and (4) the defense was unsuccessful in submitting alibis and alternate suspects to the court, because the judge wasn't having a throw spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks trial. He ran out of defense options because the prosecutor and judge DID THEIR JOBS.

Good night, all. And I hope my US friends here had a happy 4th of July.

 

[wendy44]

Not for the families of those the murderer slaughtered…

Even for the families.

We can't have a justice system where one of the benefits of the death penalty is preventing a future Supreme Court from ruling that their constitutional rights were violated. You posed it as a hypothetical, but as a hypothetical it's just wrong. Regardless of anyone's feelings about the death penalty in general. If someone's rights were violated our system says they didn't get due process.

Also, if a future court were to rule BK's rights were violated, it doesn't mean he walks. The plea would be thrown out or overturned and he would go to trial.

As for what went down leading up to the plea, how the families were told, handled, etc., we have one family's version. One understandably angry family. We haven't heard how the others felt about how it was handled.
JMO

 

[LAborn]

Even for the families.

We can't have a justice system where one of the benefits of the death penalty is preventing a future Supreme Court from ruling that their constitutional rights were violated. You posed it as a hypothetical, but as a hypothetical it's just wrong. Regardless of anyone's feelings about the death penalty in general. If someone's rights were violated our system says they didn't get due process.

Also, if a future court were to rule BK's rights were violated, it doesn't mean he walks. The plea would be thrown out or overturned and he would go to trial.

As for what went down leading up to the plea, how the families were told, handled, etc., we have one family's version. One understandably angry family. We haven't heard how the others felt about how it was handled.
JMO

Agreed. We have heard from Maddy's family, and they are grateful for what the DA was able to do. They spoke on the day.

 

[wendy44]

Off-topic but well-meaning

Hope everyone had a happy Fourth of July! We were on the Coney Island boardwalk.

Sorry (not sorry) to our British friends as we celebrate our independence from you!


View attachment 599876

Beautiful! We always go over to Mount Vernon and watch the new citizens get sworn in at the naturalization ceremony. Today the keynote speaker was Arnold Schwarzenegger and his speech was so moving.

 

[Ghostwheel]

What "some believe" doesn't necessarily fit in the justice system/legal system of Idaho.
MOO

Its true. The question was "What would be "true justice" for the slaughter of 4 young people?" and I was trying to explain what "true justice" is for some people. I was under some crazy idea that maybe it's just not understood what true justice would actually be for some people. The question was not "What would be "true justice" be in the court system for the slaughter of 4 young people"?

Again, I was just trying to make it clear WHY this is not justice (being what is merited) for people who believe in eye for eye, death for death. If the answer isn't what one wants to read, ok. But it's a valid answer if one really WANTS to know the answer to "What would be "true justice" for the slaughter of 4 young people?" If one doesn't want to know the answer, that's also a choice, but then I have to wonder why ask if one doesn't want to know or care what the answer is or that others might see things differently?

 

[angelainwi]

Beautiful! We always go over to Mount Vernon and watch the new citizens get sworn in at the naturalization ceremony. Today the keynote speaker was Arnold Schwarzenegger and his speech was so moving.

I LOVE that!