GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[10ofRods]

If a future court were to rule that his rights and those of others of his ilk were violated, he may indeed walk. If a future court rules that LWOP or is unconstitutional or older or infirm inmates should be released, he may indeed walk. I believe the families have a right to a punishment that fits the crime perpetrated on their loved ones and not to have to worry about changing beliefs altering a sentence. If this murderer was dead, they wouldn’t have to worry about even the remote possibility he could walk free.

Since he has no right of appeal, how do you envision this coming about?

Idaho has a very consistent set of laws around both DP and LWOP.

In this case, the four families were divided. Ethan's family said from the beginning that they did not want the DP. Families do not have "rights" when it comes to justice and sentencing, at least not in America.

If we added in the need to give each of the victims' families their own "right" to decide punishment, it would have been a "hung" process. What then? There are good reasons we can't do it that way. We don't even know what Mrs. G feels about the matter.

People have been known to escape from Death Row (very rare, always recaptured or suicided, IIRC). The possibility of Idaho's Supreme Court or SCOTUS vacating this sentence are vanishingly remote and the incredibly complex system we'd have to have in place for mass murders would slow justice down to a mere crawl. Not everyone wants the DP for such people.

It's about 50/50 in the US, as to whether people think the DP should even exist. Keeping things in the courts for decades is not the option I would personally choose.

NEW POLL: Overall Support for the Death Penalty Remains at Five-Decade Low as Opposition to the Death Penalty Grows Among Younger Generations | Death Penalty Information Center

According to October 2024 polling produced by Gallup, support for capital punishment remains at a five-decade low in the United States. Overall,...

deathpenaltyinfo.org

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm pro-DP and I absolutely, unequivocally support this plea deal.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Life without the possibility of parole and no appeals are worse than a death sentence.

People living on death row are still able to harbor some measure of hope in prison, because they can cling to the possibility that they'll get a reprieve from a successful appeal or a last-minute commutation of their sentence.

BK is being left in a state of complete hopelessness.

It's a fate worse than death.

I happen to agree with you. While I am personally against the DP, I have often said that if I were on a jury where 11 people agreed on the DP in a DP state, I'm not sure I could be the cause of a hung jury. Justice is not about my personal beliefs or feelings, but about a legal process.

I agree that LWOP is the bleakest possible sentence. No state-paid lawyers coming and going. No zoom calls with lawyers. No right to try to access law books to assist in appeals. IMSI has to be about the bleakest place to spend the rest of one's life. He is unlikely to be able to acquire the means to eventually request transfer to a different prison.

My sense of BK is that he has been somewhat coddled/assisted in managing his life. Moscow's city jail will look like paradise to him. He seems to have adjusted to jail, as he had access to law books and some contact with other prisoners. The cells at IMSI appear not to have bars but solid steel doors (probably bars on the inside of those doors) so there's no inter-prisoner communication for most prisoners in maximum security. BK is some kind of loner, but at the same time he has consistently sought social content through education and online interaction.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

If a future Supreme Court ruled anything about this case was unconstitutional it would be a good thing they hadn't put him to death already.
JMO

Not going to happen. BK waived his ability for future appeals.

 

[justwannahelp]

Let's flip this plea deal decision on its head for a minute.
What do we think would happen, and in particular, what do we think SG would have to say if the prosecution had declined to offer a plea bargain, one that specified LWOP and no right of appeal, let trial play out instead and then one juror, one as pigheaded as we have seen some people in here be and definitely the wider Internet, decides to vote not guilty?

What do we realistically think would happen then? When the only option Judge Hippler had would be to declare a mistrial, and the whole shebang had to start over, and then it comes out that the prosecution turned down a guilty plea, an admission in open court straight from the horses mouth?

I think everybody here can absolutely understand and empathise with SG, but he is a grieving father who has made it his mission to fight for his daughter for almost 3 years, he has delayed his grief and his healing because its unbearable for him to face it, he has had the distraction of the trial and the single minded focus of the DP to keep him going, and now that is at an end and he has nothing to hold onto to distract from pain that he doesn't want to face.
His feelings are 100% valid, but his methods are not.

The prosecution has done its job, and done it well. Their only goal is to get the best justice they can, and they did that. BK will leave prison in a box, whether the State had eventually killed him or nature does, the outcome is ultimately the same.

I’m not going to begin to imagine what SG is going through, but I personally don’t believe in the DP. (Don’t want to argue with anyone about it. I don’t judge anyone for believing in the DP at all, I just PERSONALLY don’t believe in it.)

I really like this decision of no appeals — tick tock the gate is locked, BK. No appeals.

I often wonder if we could have a prison for the most heinous of criminals - the MOST dangerous to society that is a legit island protected by drones etc but with fertile land. Give them seeds, basic tools, water filtration devices, basic clothing, maybe some hiking boots too then say build your own huts and plant your own food and catch your own fish. Survival of the fittest. That would be an interesting experiment BK would likely want no part of

 

[justwannahelp]

I happen to agree with you. While I am personally against the DP, I have often said that if I were on a jury where 11 people agreed on the DP in a DP state, I'm not sure I could be the cause of a hung jury. Justice is not about my personal beliefs or feelings, but about a legal process.

I agree that LWOP is the bleakest possible sentence. No state-paid lawyers coming and going. No zoom calls with lawyers. No right to try to access law books to assist in appeals. IMSI has to be about the bleakest place to spend the rest of one's life. He is unlikely to be able to acquire the means to eventually request transfer to a different prison.

My sense of BK is that he has been somewhat coddled/assisted in managing his life. Moscow's city jail will look like paradise to him. He seems to have adjusted to jail, as he had access to law books and some contact with other prisoners. The cells at IMSI appear not to have bars but solid steel doors (probably bars on the inside of those doors) so there's no inter-prisoner communication for most prisoners in maximum security. BK is some kind of loner, but at the same time he has consistently sought social content through education and online interaction.

BBM

Interesting point. I never thought about that! I suppose if i was on a jury and the DP was the sentence, I would not be able to consider that. As most of us know, as a juror you are only able to consider the evidence and whether you the think the defendant is guilty or not guilty of the charges. The punishment is not supposed to affect your decision, which makes sense. So in this case, if I was a juror, I would have followed the legal process and have found him guilty even though I don’t believe in the death penalty. Interesting to think about.

 

[justwannahelp]

Since he has no right of appeal, how do you envision this coming about?

Idaho has a very consistent set of laws around both DP and LWOP.

In this case, the four families were divided. Ethan's family said from the beginning that they did not want the DP. Families do not have "rights" when it comes to justice and sentencing, at least not in America.

If we added in the need to give each of the victims' families their own "right" to decide punishment, it would have been a "hung" process. What then? There are good reasons we can't do it that way. We don't even know what Mrs. G feels about the matter.

People have been known to escape from Death Row (very rare, always recaptured or suicided, IIRC). The possibility of Idaho's Supreme Court or SCOTUS vacating this sentence are vanishingly remote and the incredibly complex system we'd have to have in place for mass murders would slow justice down to a mere crawl. Not everyone wants the DP for such people.

It's about 50/50 in the US, as to whether people think the DP should even exist. Keeping things in the courts for decades is not the option I would personally choose.

NEW POLL: Overall Support for the Death Penalty Remains at Five-Decade Low as Opposition to the Death Penalty Grows Among Younger Generations | Death Penalty Information Center

According to October 2024 polling produced by Gallup, support for capital punishment remains at a five-decade low in the United States. Overall,...

deathpenaltyinfo.org

IMO.

I don’t know what generation i am. lol. I’m 45. Anyone know. Am i x

 

[Kudzuu]

We don’t actually know the numbers in each family and from family to family. I think the rush to accept the deal was a grave disservice. The prosecution team could have taken more time to discuss everything in depth with each and every family member and the two survivors and get a full assessment of what the families wanted. The prosecutor didn’t and sent an email with an attachment basically stating it was a done deal. That’s so disrespectful and devastating to those who wanted to voice their opinions.

Do you actually believe that SG would discuss this with the prosecution team or anyone else for that matter?

If SG got his beloved DP he would criticize the appeal process.

His mind is made up. He's angry at the world, including himself. Like any protective loving father he couldn't keep his daughter safe.

MOO.

 

[Salah11]

I don’t know what generation i am. lol. I’m 45. Anyone know. Am i x

You are X

 

[Seattle1]

Random question: If any of the families wish to pursue a civil suit against BK, does anyone know if presenting (or not presenting) an impact statement in the sentencing hearing would mean anything in the civil suit?

ETA: Remember, this is an IF. I am only wondering.

From what I can gather, no, it doesn't have any negative effect. I guess it could help slightly because as it's both formal and documented.

What helps immensely is that liability has already been established as a result of his guilty plea, so that's a big hurdle gone.

Similarly, in Idaho, an intentional act-- including criminal homicide-- that causes the death of an individual--a civil suit by the families would fall under the Wrongful Death Statute
(Idaho Code § 5-311).

While Wrongful Death lawsuits aim to compensate the surviving family members for the loss of their loved one, the damages recoverable in such a lawsuit are very specific, and broken down between economic, non-economic, and sometimes punitive damages.

• Economic damages: Medical bills, lost wages before death, loss of financial support after death, end-of-life care, and funeral costs
• Non-economic damages: Emotional distress, pain and suffering, or loss of companionship

In this case, the court may also award punitive damages if the responsible party’s actions were deemed oppressive, fraudulent, malicious, or outrageous.

Punitive damages serve as penalties for severe wrongdoing and may not exceed $250,000 or three times your compensatory damages, whichever is higher.

Specific to OP's question about whether a "Victim's Impact Statement" might affect the recovery in any civil suit by the family, I don't see their spoken words at sentencing, not given under oath, having any effect whatsoever in determining the economic, non-economic, or punitive damages, as described above.

However, there are two things I can think of that could affect any civil suit:

At the hearing, I recall the Judge also issuing an Order for BK to make restitution for each victim up to $50,000. I believe the Statute provides for reimbursement of the funeral costs, so families couldn't make the claim twice.

Second, and most importantly, Idaho Statute requires a wrongful death claim to be filed within two years of the individual's date of death. If no party here with standing, under the Statute, filed notice with the Court before November 13, 2024-- I believe they are time-barred from suing under Wrongful Death.

MOO

Section 5-311 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[SteveP]

I have been reading and avoiding any urge to add my opinion to those of the many others here, as it pertains to the plea deal and some families' displeasure with it. Regardless of how one feels about whether or not the death penalty should have a place in our society, it is a legal sentencing option in the state of Idaho. If ever there was a criminal deserving of being put to death, I strongly believe that it is BK. I had no problem at all with the state deciding to pursue the death penalty, quite the contrary, and I would have shed no tears if the state carried that penalty out on this monster. Having said that, as strongly as I believe this case would have resulted in a conviction on all counts, had it gone to trial, I am not equally convinced that a jury would have agreed to sentence the monster to death. I think the majority would have, but it would have only taken one juror, one, to wipe the death penalty away, leaving the murderer with a sentence that affords far more future options than this plea deal affords him, which is the option to die in prison, and to live every day of the rest of his life, until then, in prison. Nothing more, nada. No appeals. No commutations. No release based on a technicality. Pardon my double negative, but no nothing. If he dies a month from now, or sixty years from now, he will die in the same cell he will move into in a couple weeks, or another one just like it.

I have so much empathy for all of the families and friends of Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan. I pray for them, and pray that I never have to feel a fraction of the grief that they have felt for almost three years, and to some extent will feel for the rest of their lives. I pray especially for SG, who I believe is a good man and wonderful father, who I believe is talking from his hurting heart now and not from his head. I hope that in time he will come to realize that Kaylee would not want him to continue to live, filled with rage and hatred over the things that he cannot control. She would love to see him smile again, and live again, looking ahead, and not behind.

I do hope that he will decide to honor his daughter by facing her killer and letting him know that he took her body, but he did not kill Kaylee, because she will live forever in the hearts of those who loved her. Then perhaps he can begin the slow process of healing. JMO

 

[Bekind89]

I've followed the case of Darlie Routier in Texas since the murders of her two little boys by stabbing since they occurred in June 1996. She's been on Death Row since she was found guilty of murder of 5 year old Damon. She's continually getting appeals granted for more and more DNA testing, it's so beyond ridiculous. In this case, NO ONE fights for the boys, because Darlie's mother insists she is innocent and the father of the boys has truly moved on. The DP in her case serves no one. After more than 29 years she's still spewing her self serving garbage.

Darlie Routier - Wikipedia

And that's why I believe justice in this case has been done. Let BK fade into obscurity.

I also followed this case and I agree that all of her appeals are just sickening. What she did to her two little boys almost defies description. She is also a blazing narcissist and I don't understand her husband at all.

 

[wildblue]

Do you actually believe that SG would discuss this with the prosecution team or anyone else for that matter?

If SG got his beloved DP he would criticize the appeal process.

His mind is made up. He's angry at the world, including himself. Like any protective loving father he couldn't keep his daughter safe.

MOO.

It might not have changed their minds, but the rush to accept the plea seemed underhanded and insensitive. Perhaps, given some time, the prosecution team could have brought in some counselors and/or families who have been through something similar, talked through the pros and cons, etc. Taking care of the families, allowing them a voice and time to accept it, even if the prosecutors were hellbent on accepting the plea which is their right, might have lessened the extreme anger. Instead, they met only with “available” family, in their haste.

I don’t believe the DP is beloved by SG, or anyone for that matter, just thought of as the much deserved punishment for such a heinous crime. And it seems the appeals process is criticized by a majority, on both sides, in every case, from DP sentences down to sentences of lesser crimes. I don’t think that will ever change.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I have been reading and avoiding any urge to add my opinion to those of the many others here, as it pertains to the plea deal and some families' displeasure with it. Regardless of how one feels about whether or not the death penalty should have a place in our society, it is a legal sentencing option in the state of Idaho. If ever there was a criminal deserving of being put to death, I strongly believe that it is BK. I had no problem at all with the state deciding to pursue the death penalty, quite the contrary, and I would have shed no tears if the state carried that penalty out on this monster. Having said that, as strongly as I believe this case would have resulted in a conviction on all counts, had it gone to trial, I am not convinced that a jury would have agreed to sentence the monster to death. I think the majority would have, but it would have only taken one juror, one, to wipe the death penalty away, leaving the murderer with a sentence that affords far more future options than this plea deal affords him, which is the guarantee that he will die in prison, and will live every day of the rest of his life, until then, in prison. Nothing more, nada. No appeals. No commutations. No release based on a technicality. Pardon my double negatiive, but no nothing. If he dies a month from now, or sixty years from now, he will die in the same cell he will move into in a couple weeks, or another one just like it.

I have so much empathy for all of the families and friends of Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan. I pray for them, and pray that I never have to feel a fraction of the grief that they have felt for almost three years, and to some extent will feel for the rest of their lives. I pray especially for SG, who I believe is a good man and wonderful father, who I believe is talking from his hurting heart now and not from his head. I hope that in time he will come to realize that Kaylee would not want him to continue to live, filled with rage and hatred over things that he cannot control. She would love to see him smile again, and live again, looking ahead, and not behind.

I do hope that he will decide to honor his daughter by facing her killer and letting him know that he took her body, but he did not kill Kaylee, because she will live forever in the hearts of those who loved her. Then perhaps he can begin the process of healing. JMO

So well said, SteveP. As always.

 

[LAborn]

Similarly, in Idaho, an intentional act-- including criminal homicide-- that causes the death of an individual--a civil suit by the families would fall under the Wrongful Death Statute
(Idaho Code § 5-311).

While Wrongful Death lawsuits aim to compensate the surviving family members for the loss of their loved one, the damages recoverable in such a lawsuit are very specific, and broken down between economic, non-economic, and sometimes punitive damages.

• Economic damages: Medical bills, lost wages before death, loss of financial support after death, end-of-life care, and funeral costs
• Non-economic damages: Emotional distress, pain and suffering, or loss of companionship

In this case, the court may also award punitive damages if the responsible party’s actions were deemed oppressive, fraudulent, malicious, or outrageous.

Punitive damages serve as penalties for severe wrongdoing and may not exceed $250,000 or three times your compensatory damages, whichever is higher.

Specific to OP's question about whether a "Victim's Impact Statement" might affect the recovery in any civil suit by the family, I don't see their spoken words at sentencing, not given under oath, having any effect whatsoever in determining the economic, non-economic, or punitive damages, as described above.

However, there are two things I can think of that could affect any civil suit:

At the hearing, I recall the Judge also issuing an Order for BK to make restitution for each victim up to $50,000. I believe the Statute provides for reimbursement of the funeral costs, so families couldn't make the claim twice.

Second, and most importantly, Idaho Statute requires a wrongful death claim to be filed within two years of the individual's date of death. If no party here with standing, under the Statute, filed notice with the Court before November 13, 2024-- I believe they are time-barred from suing under Wrongful Death.

MOO

Section 5-311 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

It's actually $5000 per victim. I couldn't believe my ears when the judge said it.

"Hippler says Kohberger could face a fine of up to $50,000 and a period of incarceration of life in prison and a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years on each of the counts. Bryan Kohberger pleads guilty at hearing in Idaho college student murders

He also faces a fine of up to $5,000 to each victim of the crime in the form of a civil judgment in addition to any restitution to the victims."

 

[Bekind89]

I've followed the case of Darlie Routier in Texas since the murders of her two little boys by stabbing since they occurred in June 1996. She's been on Death Row since she was found guilty of murder of 5 year old Damon. She's continually getting appeals granted for more and more DNA testing, it's so beyond ridiculous. In this case, NO ONE fights for the boys, because Darlie's mother insists she is innocent and the father of the boys has truly moved on. The DP in her case serves no one. After more than 29 years she's still spewing her self serving garbage.

Darlie Routier - Wikipedia

And that's why I believe justice in this case has been done. Let BK fade into obscurity.

I also followed this case and I agree that all of her appeals are just sickening. What did to her two little boys almost defies description. She is also a blazing narcissist and I don't understand her husband at all.

I

https://twitter.com/x/status/1941432561055482114

So well said, SteveP. As always.

Yes, very well said.

 

[Jw192]

It might not have changed their minds, but the rush to accept the plea seemed underhanded and insensitive. Perhaps, given some time, the prosecution team could have brought in some counselors and/or families who have been through something similar, talked through the pros and cons, etc. Taking care of the families, allowing them a voice and time to accept it, even if the prosecutors were hellbent on accepting the plea which is their right, might have lessened the extreme anger. Instead, they met only with “available” family, in their haste.

I don’t believe the DP is beloved by SG, or anyone for that matter, just thought of as the much deserved punishment for such a heinous crime. And it seems the appeals process is criticized by a majority, on both sides, in every case, from DP sentences down to sentences of lesser crimes. I don’t think that will ever change.

Judge Hippler explained the reason that the plea agreement hearing had to happen fast. It was all explained in court and is available to watch back if you missed it.

Again, the Goncalves family's horrendous unimaginable pain is no worse than the other victims families pain yet for some reason this has turned into the SG show, which is icky.

Justice is done and no matter how you try to spin it, Kohberger is going to die in prison and never have the chance to kill anymore college students as they lay in bed.

IMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

It might not have changed their minds, but the rush to accept the plea seemed underhanded and insensitive. Perhaps, given some time, the prosecution team could have brought in some counselors and/or families who have been through something similar, talked through the pros and cons, etc. Taking care of the families, allowing them a voice and time to accept it, even if the prosecutors were hellbent on accepting the plea which is their right, might have lessened the extreme anger. Instead, they met only with “available” family, in their haste.

I don’t believe the DP is beloved by SG, or anyone for that matter, just thought of as the much deserved punishment for such a heinous crime. And it seems the appeals process is criticized by a majority, on both sides, in every case, from DP sentences down to sentences of lesser crimes. I don’t think that will ever change.

It is not the prosecutors' job to provide counseling for the victims' families to help them accept the criminal justice process. It's not "underhanded" to take a deal that benefits the people of Idaho, guaranteeing that BK will be in prison for life, no appeals. If you take a look at your language,"hellbent" and "underhanded" betrays your own bias against the prosecutors. If the prosecution had a favorable deal on the table, there is no reason to delay accepting that because delay opens the door to other issues, e.g., leaking to the press.

Your interpretations are based on the assumption that the families are the primary clients of the prosecution, and while they are of course important, the case was not Goncalves v. Kohberger; it's the State of Idaho v. Kohberger. There are cases in which I think the families have been treated shabbily and shamefully. This is not one of them. Less than 3 years from the killings to LWOP, no appeal. That's almost unheard of today in a major case with national attention.

SG of course has the option of filing a civil suit in which he and his family will be BK's opponent.

 

[Kudzuu]

I'm pro-DP and I absolutely, unequivocally support this plea deal.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

Life without the possibility of parole and no appeals are worse than a death sentence.

People living on death row are still able to harbor some measure of hope in prison, because they can cling to the possibility that they'll get a reprieve from a successful appeal or a last-minute commutation of their sentence.

BK is being left in a state of complete hopelessness.

It's a fate worse than death.

I agree.

I would like to add that the DR prisoner can give up and stop appealing the case. This gives them the power to decide to accept the punishment.

I think Kohberger would embrace that power.

Moo

 

[Kudzuu]

Meaning sentenced by a jury of his peers, not some hurried plea deal so the murderer gets what he wants…

Have I missed something?
How do we know the plea deal was rushed. As far as I know the defense could have been trying to persuaded him for a long time. All her silly reasons for delaying the trial, SODDI etc. The prosecution did their job and could have been open to a plea as well.

Moo.

Please post a link if I'm mistaken.

 

[Boxer]

One thing about this plea. Kohberger admitted he killed them. That would not ever happen in the trial scenario. He would be found guilty, I think 50/50 the jury would follow through with a death sentence, but that would be it.
Found guilty. He would then challenge that verdict from then on with the fiction that his rights had been violated.
His best interest would preclude him from ever admitting guilt even as being put to death.
The same SM that gives SG a platform would develop a full throttle support for Kohberger s innocence no matter how nonsensical that is, it brings clicks.
During the 18 or so appeals over time it seems predictable that one was going to work and send him back for a re-trial where the IGG DNA might be suppressed, leading to voiding of all evidence discovered due to it. That is the nightmare this plea avoided.