GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #113

[PunishThenForgive]

Makes sense to me, I may have missed that post. ( hard to keep up in the last few days

Here’s the post by @SteveP, which also refers to a post by @MassGuy

Poster @MassGuy showed a picture yesterday of a way to hold the knife so that you could stab, and use the pommel end, without changing grips, and without holding it by the blade. As to the stripe marks, the killer could have just eased up on his grip, and pushed one side of the handle across her mouth or face, with force. JMO

GUILTY Post in thread 'PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #113'

Jul 24, 2025

When most of us think about how you hold a knife, it’s the first image.

I believe Kohberger held the knife like the second image though.

It is a tactical grip that allows you to stab via thrusting motions, while allowing you to use the bottom of the knife (pommel) as a bludgeoning tool, without adjusting your grip.

This would explain Kaylee’s blunt force injuries, and might also explain why Dylan interpreted the knife as a vacuum.

• MassGuy

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[ttjo]

Here’s the post:

Oh wow, yes the vacuum reference. Any ideas what the flash bang may have been?
Nevermind, I found the whole discussion on that.
Sorry I asked. ,When something has been discussed and someone asks a question cause they havent read. ( GRRR like what I just did)

 

[Jetset]

Oh wow, yes the vacuum reference. Any ideas what the flash bang may have been?

Taser.

 

[KonaHonu]

I hope they get the loser who did this! But he is probably in another country behind a VPN.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

For anyone behind on the thread, here are some of the theories that explain the light and sound witnessed by Bethany and the vacuum-like object seen by Dylan:

IMO, as I think justirish posted, it could've been a "flashbang":

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M84 stun grenade
A stun grenade, also known as a flash grenade, flashbang, thunderflash, or sound bomb,is a non-lethal explosive device used to temporarily disorient an enemy's senses. Upon detonation, a stun grenade produces a blinding flash of light and an extremely loud "bang". They are often used in close-quarters combat, door breaching, and riot control, typically to stun enemies or distract them.
..................

Despite their less-lethal nature, stun grenades are still capable of causing harm, and can injure or kill when detonating in close proximity. They are also capable of sparking fires.

Stun grenade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

THIS looks like what was described in the JP book, what DM saw him carrying..."a firefighter"

I haven't gone thru the 1000's of posts here and this may have been mentioned and if it has, I apologize. Just from the few posts I've read on this mystery item that resembles a vacuum part and the light and sound I automatically thought of a cattle prod or taser of some kind. It would explain a flash and perhaps the sound like a pop or snap. I don't think there was any mention of shock marks on any of the bodies but one could have been used to maybe scare or cause compliance? Just a thought.

EDITED to add an idea at the bottom

I think you've hit it almost right. Not a cattle prod or a taser like cops use that shoots out the darts that attach to the target.....a stun gun.

Many stun guns have a light on them that can be set to strobe when the stun gun is activated--the idea is that it is an additional way to disorient your target.

He could have brought it to use as a threat (or even had one of the models where you can turn on the normal flashlight mode without shocking to help him navigate).

If he encountered Xana and pursued her through the living room, the route to her bedroom would have put her in a location about halfway between DM and BF's rooms, near that stairwell to the basement that has the halfway that faces the living room. A very bright strobe going off in the middle of the living room and the sizzling sound as he tried to attack Xana with it (but missed), could easily be heard and seen in DM's room and interpreted to her drunk and sleepy brain as a firework and a sparkler.

BF could have heard that....but her bedroom is under the area at the top of the living room stairs. As you can see by this picture from the realtor.com listing for the house, you can actually see the underside of those stairs forming part of her room.

Since those stairs have a wall on the "inner" side of them that goes all the way down to the floor of the first floor and creates a wall that is the hall down to BF's room, I'm trying to figure out if there was any way that a strobing light from the living room could be seen by looking under her 1st floor door. All I can think of is if there had been a mirror across from the bottom of those stairs...(the door to the empty room first floor room isn't directly across from the stairs, so there is a small stretch of wall space there....that's right near the front door, so I could see a mirror there to check your looks before you head out).

I've been puzzling about this all night.

Looking at that picture again and wondering if it is actually possible for a bright strobe in the living room (which didn't have drawn curtains) to reflect off of the windshield of Kaylee's new car since it was parked slightly further back from the house than the car right in front of BF's window. If BF's curtains/blinds weren't fully drawn, her drunk and sleepy brain may have assumed that the flashing light she was seeing was coming from under the door instead of through a crack in her curtains, especially depending on where her bed was placed.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1122-King-Rd_Moscow_ID_83843_M94866-24207

View attachment 603685

I’ve been thinking about what the thing DM says she saw BK holding.
That paired with the facial injuries on KG, and BF firecracker noise and flash or spark.

If all of these are the same thing, what could it be?
An object from the crime scene used as a weapon would be easy to figure out- it would be covered in blood. Did he take it with him?

Whatever he took in there he took out- except the sheath.
Maybe a tactical flashlight- used like a billy club? Did he drop it?
Was a lamp knocked over? Bulbs turned on broken can make a flash and also a pop noise.
Some have said maybe a taser, a cattle prod? Would they leave marks?

The facial injuries on KG are a new level of depravity, I’d like to hear what a profiler says about that in addition to stab wounds. What a sick mind

IMO

I think it was a headlamp he was wearing over his caterpillar eyebrows, seeming like a flash because he was likely running and head moving all over. Not sure what the noise could have been though, just about anything really at that pont.. jmo

I'm thinking a taser was involved.
View attachment 604041

 

[ttjo]

For anyone behind on the thread, here are some of the theories that explain the light and sound witnessed by Bethany and the vacuum-like object seen by Dylan:

Thanks for that, I was going to stop asking questions and go back and catch up. That answerd my taser questions.
I appreciate it.

 

[cottonweaver]

The only problem with that scenario is that Kaylee was found on the bed between Maddie and the wall, trapped there, according to her parents.

Upon the officers’ arrival at the scene, Kaylee’s door was unopened and Murphy was on Kaylee’s bed. The door was closed to preserve the scene, then Murphy hid under Kaylee’s desk and had to be coaxed out later.

View attachment 603969


Moscow PD Kohberger Investigation Docs #125

Moscow PD Kohberger Investigation Docs - Google Drive​

Just to say that if you read down to the bottom of the Supp, LEO Gunderson says that Kaylee's bedroom door was open when LEO Nunes had first arrived.
( I think there are a couple more supps which also attest to it having been left open before first LEO arrived. I'm only pointing this out because we'd been discussing it earlier wrt various witnesses claiming Murphy was later outside barking and that the front door was also wide open 9-10am. BTW, I can't find any reference to KG's bedroom slider onto the balcony being open but maybe somebody can recall those records they've read wrt that)
I also haven't come across any record which records bloody paw prints anywhere. Has anybody else? Maybe he stayed up there in her room during the attacks?

ETA Thanks @ttjo but I can't open that' Independent ' link

 

[ttjo]

I also haven't come across any record which records bloody paw prints anywhere. Has anybody else? Maybe he stayed up there in her room during the attacks?

The dog found unharmed inside the home where four University of Idaho students were butchered in their beds did not tamper with the crime scene and was not discovered in the same room as any of the victims, it has been revealed.

Moscow Police said in an update on Monday that Murphy, the pet dog that victim Kaylee Goncalves shared with her former long-term boyfriend, was found in a room where the crimes had not been committed.
there was no indication the animal had entered the crime scene,”
source:

Idaho police offer new details about Kaylee Goncalves’ dog at the crime scene

Investigators previously revealed that the dog was found inside the home when officers arrived on the scene of the murders on 13 November

www.the-independent.com

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Just to say that if you read down to the bottom of the Supp, LEO Gunderson says that Kaylee's bedroom door was open when LEO Nunes had first arrived.
( I think there are a couple more supps which also attest to it being open. I'm only pointing this out because we'd been discussing it earlier wrt various witnesses claiming Murphy was later outside barking and that the front door was also wide open 9-10am. BTW, I can't find any reference to KG's bedroom slider onto the balcony being open but maybe somebody can recall those records they've read wrt that)
I also haven't come across any record which records bloody paw prints anywhere. Has anybody else? Maybe he stayed up there in her room during the attacks?

You’re right—thank you for pointing out my error. Sorry, but I blame a brain glitch for using the word “unopened” when I meant “open.” I provided a screenshot of the Moscow Police investigation document in my post that stated the door was open when the first officer arrived (with Murphy on Kaylee’s bed), and then the door was later closed to secure the scene (and Murphy crawled under Kaylee’s desk), so my post must have been confusing.

Here’s the relevant part of the document:



The fact that the door was open, of course, implies that poor Murphy had the run of the house during the murders, yet he had no blood on his fur.

The fact that the murderer let Murphy live (assuming he even saw Murphy) might be explained by his fondness for dogs. (He asked about his own dog after his arrest.)

IMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

For anyone behind on the thread, here are some of the theories that explain the light and sound witnessed by Bethany and the vacuum-like object seen by Dylan:

Thanks for posting this! I am in and out of the Idaho threads as almost impossible to keep up with it all.

BK heard someone calling out about noise while he was in the house. He likely knew at least another person or more were there if he new if wasn't Xana that yelled out. Not sure on that, maybe he thought Xana was the one who yelled out.

Perhaps he was ready to leave the house because of exhaustion. Did he spark something up to lure others out of their rooms? Or did he prep himself and spark up a stun gun or other weapon in case another persona came out of the room to surprise him?

Doesn't make sense to me really either to use something like that if he had a knife, but maybe he was feeling weak in the arm or tired. Thinking out loud, still unsure what it was... JMO MOO

ETA: I'm starting to veer towards a stun granade/flash bang type thing after looking up stuff online

 

[ttjo]

Here’s the relevant part of the document:

View attachment 604063

The fact that the door was open, of course, implies that poor Murphy had the run of the house during the murders, yet he had no blood on his fur.

The fact that the murderer let Murphy live (assuming he even saw Murphy) might be explained by his fondness for dogs. (He asked about his own dog after his arrest.)

IMO

So Murphy was in Kaylee's room and the girls were in Maddie's room? The door was open but Murphy just stayed in the room that was his home.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ugh can't believe I'm googling some of this stuff.... I was trying to find out if any serial killers or mass killers use stun grenades/firebangs because I feel like BK takes his ideas from everyone else, is not an authentic person and as Alivia said is a "wannabe".

I couldn't find any link to known serial/mass killers according to AI/google search, however one search mentioned police can use stun grenades.

Maybe BK learned about this somewhere in his studies of criminology? Still seems an odd choice of weapon and unsure he could get his hands on one, not sure where you could buy one. There would likely be a purchase trail maybe.

Sorry if already discussed, it's a curious tidbit about this sad story!

 

[cottonweaver]

You’re right—thank you for pointing out my error. Sorry, but I blame a brain glitch for using the word “unopened” when I meant “open.” I provided a screenshot of the Moscow Police investigation document in my post that stated the door was open when the first officer arrived (with Murphy on Kaylee’s bed), and then the door was later closed to secure the scene (and Murphy crawled under Kaylee’s desk), so my post must have been confusing.

Here’s the relevant part of the document:

View attachment 604063

The fact that the door was open, of course, implies that poor Murphy had the run of the house during the murders, yet he had no blood on his fur.

The fact that the murderer let Murphy live (assuming he even saw Murphy) might be explained by his fondness for dogs. (He asked about his own dog after his arrest.)

IMO

Glad you don't think I was being nit-picky. I just know how easy it is to create confusion - I have done it myself - other people don't have time to read past posts & it snowballs from there.

Anyway....
Throughout 2023 I believed that Murphy had been closed into Kaylee's bedroom. I totally appreciate why a dog like that could be scared and cower in there even if KG's door was open during the attacks.

Getting to the point - there's lots of survivor & friend testimony about Murphy going out to the scrub & trees at the back of 1122 & not returning.
This is in the weeks prior, same time that a ' creeper' or trespasser was observed.
Obviously dogs get on the scent of rodents and creatures, so this reluctance to return may be inconsequential but it's just another ' What if.......?'

He does claim to love animals & most of us believe he's been inside that house before ( Did he pet the dog? Bring treats on past occasions, or in his typical spiteful way amuse himself by distracting the dog at the back so the girls couldn't get him back easy when Murphy was taken to go potty late at night? He thinks he's so clever & cunning, I wouldn't put it past him)

 

[AngTxGal]

Honestly yes I can see it especially because it wasn't very long. Just imo.

Based on the autopsies, he stabbed them in a specific manner to hit lungs, liver, heart
His stabs were planned, patterned, meant to quickly incapacitate and bleed out.
Timeline?
For this reason I believe Maddie was the first victim, nearest to his entrance to the room, and this woke up Kaylee who struggled more.
After looking up how a KBar fighting knife can be used- I think the ‘second weapon’ was him hitting Kaylee with the butt of the knife, and the rounded striped shape left was its handle
I also think Xana was moving around, she may have heard something- come up the steps.
Dylan yelled out to Kaylee
DoorDash order for Xana crossed over the time BK was near the house- the driver saw him and car
As per Dylan- she thought Xana was in the bathroom with someone- heard a man speak
Dylan also yelled out to Kaylee
I think BK may have heard Dylan or Xana and expected them when coming down the stairs- he bumped a table, knocked over or dropped something in the living room
Bethany heard something, saw a flash under her door
Xana fought, defended herself as best as she could without any weapons, had the most defense wounds and was stabbed 50+ times.
Then Ethan last- I assume in a deep sleep didn’t even have a chance to get awake to fight.
Dylan looked out and saw BK, she watched him leave out the back sliding door

All of this carnage in less than 15 min- was he on something?
He dispose of clothing and not leave blood in his car.
He had studied weapon use, not leave footprints in the crime scene, protection of clothing, keeping blood evidence from the car
He had studied how to use a KBar knife in an efficient quick and deadly manner

Cop body camera videos from a noise disturbance call months earlier shows a back yard that is very dark, no street lights, He may have had a tactical flashlight? Phase of moon? I don’t know

If he had done these things better- who knows how many more victims there could have been!?
- leave cell phone at appt
- park farther away and walk through neighborhood behind home
- don’t leave sheath at crime scene, or DNA on the sheath
- don’t leave evidence of knife purchase from Amazon
- don’t time the crime so close to arrival to a new city
- drive a darker car
- don’t visit crime scene at same time as a pattern repeatedly
- remove footprints leaving house
- don’t commit a crime so similar to plot of sisters’ acting role in B movie
- learn to blend better, work with students, not be creepy to classmates, students, neighbors
- don’t take selfies in grim reaper dark clothing on phone
He made a lot of mistakes for a criminology grad student.

Others as twisted and sick and angry will learn from his mistakes- we have to expect that.

What a horrific experience, scene, and crime, I’m still waking up hearing noises in the night
Stay safe, help young women stay safe
IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think he just went there expecting to kill Maddie quick and quiet and found himself way over his head and reacted with excessive force. I don't think it was any deeper than that. Both Maddie and Ethan, who didn't have time to fight back were dispatched relatively quickly. Kaylee and Xana, who did fight back, were attacked ferociously. I think his goal was to kill them as quick as possible. No calculating moves, just primal attack to dispatch the victim as quick as possible fueled purely by adrenaline. Was he angry? Well, most definitely. Someone who plans to kill with a knife has quite a bit of anger stored in him yes but I don't think their injuries were done so because he planned it or wanted to take it out on them specifically. I think he wanted to do a very calculated, well planned attaack that left no trace and allowed him to quickly slip out with none the wiser. His plan immediately went to crap and he was forced to react on instinct and panic.


I mean, he does care to some degree. In his past comments he said something of the like 'i hate hurting my parents'. I think by the time he committed these murders he was so checked out from depression that he wanted to feel 'alive', so to speak. He was chasing the high he got from the heroin

Maddie and Kaylee's faces were attacked leaving them unrecognizable, that despite the fact both were also stabbed in the lungs and liver. Kaylee also had a fatal stab behind her clavicle as well as asphyxiation and bludgeoning injuries and was bleeding heavily from her midsection. That sounds like the overkill was rage induced and with the intent of completely destroying them, erasing their idenities. MO

Then the monster was heard saying, (most likely to Xana) (paraphrazing), "It's ok, I'm going to help you". A person who murders, describing carnage as helping...it was personal. I do believe that one of them may have been the impetus for him being there that night, but once there and committed, he was all in...just like Bundy (someone I think he idolized) in that sorority. MO

I think DM is only alive because she was so still with fright and he didn't see her. That and visual snow in the darkness probably saved her. MO

Kohberger Investigation Documents | Moscow, ID

Related to State of Idaho v. Bryan Kohberger, Latah County Case CR29-22-2805, Ada County Case CR01-24-31665, and MPD Case No. 22-M09903. Includes Non-Exempt MPD Investigatory Records that have been redacted pursuant to the Idaho Public Records Act and authorized for release to the general public.

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Glad you don't think I was being nit-picky. I just know how easy it is to create confusion - I have done it myself - other people don't have time to read past posts & it snowballs from there.

Anyway....
Throughout 2023 I believed that Murphy had been closed into Kaylee's bedroom. I totally appreciate why a dog like that could be scared and cower in there even if KG's door was open during the attacks.

Getting to the point - there's lots of survivor & friend testimony about Murphy going out to the scrub & trees at the back of 1122 & not returning.
This is in the weeks prior, same time that a ' creeper' or trespasser was observed.
Obviously dogs get on the scent of rodents and creatures, so this reluctance to return may be inconsequential but it's just another ' What if.......?'

He does claim to love animals & most of us believe he's been inside that house before ( Did he pet the dog? Bring treats on past occasions, or in his typical spiteful way amuse himself by distracting the dog at the back so the girls couldn't get him back easy when Murphy was taken to go potty late at night? He thinks he's so clever & cunning, I wouldn't put it past him)

Yes, the docs certainly leave room for thinking the murderer may have interacted with Murphy prior to the murders, at least when Murphy was let outside to potty.

And then there’s the morning of the murders. According to Bethany (supp doc #90):



What time did Maddie and Bethany take Murphy outside? Would Maddie go to bed without first finding Murphy? Did Murphy really spend the rest of the morning alone in Kaylee’s room, and why did Dylan think she heard Kaylee playing with Murphy at 4 am?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

So Murphy was in Kaylee's room and the girls were in Maddie's room? The door was open but Murphy just stayed in the room that was his home.

That appears to be the case (Murphy stayed in Kaylee’s room), unless he could move between rooms without getting blood on him or leaving bloody doggie footprints anywhere.

Maybe he was terrified and hid under Kaylee’s bed or desk during the murders. It seems counterintuitive, though, that he would not try to protect Kaylee, or that he would bark in Kaylee’s room with the door open.

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I mean, he does care to some degree. In his past comments he said something of the like 'i hate hurting my parents'. I think by the time he committed these murders he was so checked out from depression that he wanted to feel 'alive', so to speak. He was chasing the high he got from the heroin

I think the psychology of BK is complicated, and our instinct wants to say he is a monster, has no human qualities and we are human and not like him. The binary is how we separate the Others from Us, and it isn’t reality

So it all depends on the context- we are not robots- we are infinitely more complex
He can care only for himself, sometimes
And also care for his parents, sometimes
It is clear he did not expect to get caught, so he had convinced himself that his parents would not be impacted by his choices, because he was so damn smart.
It doesn’t seem he had a close relationship with his sisters- why? Age difference? Favoritism?

Has he ever had a close friend, who accepted him as he is, and he accepted them?
Has he ever had a mutually caring relationship with a woman other than his mother?

He is a mixed bag- obsessive about some things yet other parts are stunted, absent.
Socially awkward- feels like a social failure, seeks acceptance from subculture- serial killers, incels
Full of shame and self loathing- feels like a failure in love- seeking acceptance into a group of heroes he identifies with
Self medicating- addict, lacking control, hiding from reality- heroin is a depressant
Avoidance- unable or unwilling to develop skills needed for healthy coping, not reflective
Obsessive- seeking control- rotates through obsessions like addictions
Anger- blame, unfair world, victim mindset

I am no behavioral expert, but I saw these things in his reaction to the victim impact statements- and we have so little footage of him to go on.
- fear
- shame
- fury
- boredom
- entertainment, dupers delight
- surprise, shock

He exhibited an intense inhuman level of self-control through all of these intense emotions. Wow
That is a skill- what causes a person to develop that skill? It feels unusual, almost as if he saw the truth in the statements and he was shocked at the accuracy and could not deny it.
Almost as if he has respect for the process, the game of cat and mouse between perp and LE, and he has accepted that he lost.

He pled guilty to everything- he has accepted that he lost.
He could have prolonged the agony of the victim’s families and extend his time on the stage, and lead on his proberger minions- he didn’t.
I think he does not have the attention span or maturity or resilience to have heard all of his mistakes be pointed out in court.
I think he fears insignificance and germs as much as death.
So does he accept failure- what will that do to him if he does?

What if he isn’t done? He is only 30, how could he be resigned to prison for the rest of his life and accept that his one single contribution to the genre of serial killers is viewed as a flop?
Is he is done? I don’t think he is done. So, what is next? What will be his next obsession?

My 2 cents

IMO

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948827614207938815

"That is crucial to the case,
because if Kohberger did in fact chase after Kernodle,
it would explain why he might have left behind the biggest piece of evidence in the case
— his KA-BAR knife sheath.

The struggle between the two
caused enough of a 'commotion'
to get the attention of Mortensen,
who then opened her door to check on her roommates
and instead saw Kohberger as he exited the residence,
making her the lone eyewitness in the case."

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948149163348082736

What do these 2 letters on his orange prison uniform mean?



He looks very thin, especially his arms IMO.