Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[Minette]

You know, if the 8yr old felt it was important to be part of a search, who are we to say? If my kids wanted to go take part in a search for Sky, I might let them, because I think it's important that they feel they can contribute to something for the greater good. I would hope they they weren't the ones that found anything grisly, but if they felt strongly about searching, I would let them.

Again, I don't understand why we are trying to crucify Edith.. . .in the name of DB and JI's innocence? Really? Do people really feel strongly enough about that to drag some poor woman through the mud?

Here's an idea! DB and JI can hoof it down to police headquarters with their attorneys and answer their questions. Then all of this peripheral drama can stop. :waitasec:

We will have to agree to disagree on letting an 8-year old search for someone's severed head. My thought would be that as the adult I would need to have a better understanding of the potential trauma to a child and let them help in other ways. Again, this could be a misunderstanding based on slipshod reporting, but if not, I stand by my thought that it was unusual (to say the least!) to put an 8-year old in the position of possibly finding a decomposing head.

I am not trying to crucify Edith, or anyone. However, she has inserted herself into this case and made herself a player and a public figure by speaking to the media multiple times. Therefore, her actions are as open to discussion/question as any other involved individual, IMO. Plus, I sincerely doubt that if the loss of her daughter didn't destroy her that comments on a message board will.

 

[oh_gal]

Not wrath. The woman is obviously in need of some mental health professional's assistance. Why should JI/DB have to condone this woman standing on their front lawn? Why doesn't everyone see that Edith's meltdown is a sign that she needs help? Why doesn't someone have a vigil for her?

Seriously, condoning/abetting a mentally distressed woman's behavior all for the sake of sticking it to JI/DB is not a good thing.

(bbm)
Maybe for the same reason that DB's supporters don't see anything wrong with her behavior.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You would take an eight year old on a search for the head of a decapitated little girl? Really?

I've heard that some parents ignore movie ratings and let young kids watch whatever they want. Then again a real decapitated head is pretty gruesome if you ask me.

 

[Sparklin]

I hope I never have to find out how I would act or what I would do under these circumstances. I don't think I would be able to function at all. I think a padded room would be in order. I can't even imagine sleeping because I would be so grief stricken....yes, grief! Not thinking she was passed away, just that she was gone would be enough to grieve. We have no idea what Deb is dealing with. Aside from waking every day to realize it isn't a nightmare and her daughter really isn't there, she has to deal with the guilt of having been in that house when Lisa went missing. Who knows what her emotional state is. For me, imagining her trying to carry on daily for their boys, with all of this on her mind...well, it almost makes me crazy! When Gil stated he was worried about suicide...I could picture that. I can't say it wouldn't be an outlet for me...except for the two boys that need her to be strong and as normal as she can be. Maybe she's trying..

 

[oh_gal]

I hope I never have to find out how I would act or what I would do under these circumstances. I don't think I would be able to function at all. I think a padded room would be in order. I can't even imagine sleeping because I would be so grief stricken....yes, grief! Not thinking she was passed away, just that she was gone would be enough to grieve. We have no idea what Deb is dealing with. Aside from waking every day to realize it isn't a nightmare and her daughter really isn't there, she has to deal with the guilt of having been in that house when Lisa went missing. Who knows what her emotional state is. For me, imagining her trying to carry on daily for their boys, with all of this on her mind...well, it almost makes me crazy! When Gil stated he was worried about suicide...I could picture that. I can't say it wouldn't be an outlet for me...except for the two boys that need her to be strong and as normal as she can be. Maybe she's trying..

I agree with you. I'm pretty sure she's suffering from a massive dose of guilt.

 

[Donjeta]

I can't imagine that any organized searches would take an eight year old.

 

[MissJames]

Nomatter what DB and JI have done in regards to the disappearance of Lisa, having a prayer vigil on their lawn nightly or, even routinely, should not be a choice of the community.

Personally, I consider myself a spiritual person who depends on prayer to get me through good and bad times. And I wouldn't want people on my lawn repeatedly.

Prayer vigils are only one of MANY ways to keep a baby's memory alive. It is not the ONLY, SACRED, ACCEPTED means to this end.

I can imagine what kinds of drama and gossip that can transpire from people who are using these gatherings as a means to make themselves feel worthwhile. They should be questioning their own motives. If indeed they are truly holding vigils for Lisa, then any place and or any time should be just fine with them!

I don't disagree,but would like everyone to remember ,the majority of the time,the family was not there.They were living elsewhere until very recently.

I still think parents who really didn't know what happened to their baby ,would be happy to have the vigils brought to their lawn.

As I've said before,the worst time from my own experience ,was when people stopped coming,calling,writing and remembering. Not exactly the same as a missing child but in many ways the missing baby is worse. All the more reason to rely on the community.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM First of all, a 'march for justice' is NOT a prayer vigil. Secondly, from Penguin Park to anywhere, especially to the Irwin's is NOT a stroll down a country lane. Third point, if she were showing up AT my house with a 'march', I would hope her azz ends up in jail. This is not about Lisa; this is about Edith putting her face out there.

On Sunday, the two-month anniversary of Lisa’s disappearance, Fine-Duskin and about 15 others held a prayer vigil at Penguin Park in the Northland. She said she is organizing a “march for justice for baby Lisa” to be held Sunday, starting at the same park and going to the Irwin residence.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/03/3303813/mother-who-knows-pain-of-an-unsolved.html#ixzz1fnmgdu9l

 

[Amster]

Not wrath. The woman is obviously in need of some mental health professional's assistance. Why should JI/DB have to condone this woman standing on their front lawn? Why doesn't everyone see that Edith's meltdown is a sign that she needs help? Why doesn't someone have a vigil for her?

Seriously, condoning/abetting a mentally distressed woman's behavior all for the sake of sticking it to JI/DB is not a good thing.

Yep...heaven forbid anyone make this about Lisa....DB and JI have moved on. Guess the rest of us should too? Let's make everything about something else in order to ignore the elephant in the room. DB and JI have moved on. Not gonna cooperate in finding their daughter. And, that's just fine with many. What a sad place to be. So happy I am nowhere near a place that would destroy a woman such as Edith in order to protect the "feelings" of what I see is a baby killer. Enjoy.

 

[Whisperer]

HLN reporting rigth now. Another child raped, tortured and killed. Parents cleared immediately through poly.

 

[highflyer]

Yep...heaven forbid anyone make this about Lisa....DB and JI have moved on. Guess the rest of us should too? Let's make everything about something else in order to ignore the elephant in the room. DB and JI have moved on. Not gonna cooperate in finding their daughter. And, that's just fine with many. What a sad place to be. So happy I am nowhere near a place that would destroy a woman such as Edith in order to protect the "feelings" of what I see is a baby killer. Enjoy.

Who is trying to destroy Edith? That makes no sense. It was a quote from an article in The Kansas City Star with an accompanying picture that it appears she posed for. Is Edith trying to destroy Edith in the press?

 

[Nixie]

Yep...heaven forbid anyone make this about Lisa....DB and JI have moved on. Guess the rest of us should too? Let's make everything about something else in order to ignore the elephant in the room. DB and JI have moved on. Not gonna cooperate in finding their daughter. And, that's just fine with many. What a sad place to be. So happy I am nowhere near a place that would destroy a woman such as Edith in order to protect the "feelings" of what I see is a baby killer. Enjoy.

I don't think anyone is trying to destroy Edith people are just posting their personal feelings based on experience and the facts has they see it in this case and how their opinions on the vigils and how they were handled. I am not about protecting DB's feelings I worry about the 2 little boys in the house who are victims. I worry about Baby Lisa, I worry about this case just because my opinion on certain matters differs doesn't mean everyone here doesn't want the same thing. I don't look at everyone who disagrees with me has wrong I respond to them if I feel I have something to add. I love reading people's opinions and even if they don't agree I still respect them. I have said in almost every post I have made about Edith that I am worried about her. I think she has a lot of sadness in her life and I worry she is taking on the grief of baby Lisa. How is anyone here trying to destroy her? Just because people disagree with things she does or can see a different side of things does not equal destroying someone. I am personally glad I am in a place where I can agree with some, disagree with others, and at the end of the day still enjoy posting and reading posts with people. I am glad I can have different opinions then some but still love reading their posts because they make me think of things I hadn't before.

 

[MyBelle]

I guess I would first ask you to display some sort of proof on these allegations. Video, legal documentation showing this prayer group has;

trepessed, harassed, loitered, been charged with disorderly conduct, or showing they have been charged with disturbing the peace.

I personally posted city code the other day only after contacting the city clerk via telephone in regards to a prayer vigil, public easement and the laws. It was explained to me in great detail what the codes were for such an event. Furthermore, what you are alleging took place would have taken place when they had prior permission to enter the property that exceeded the 4' public easement which would not warrant charges.

If you want the number to the City Clerk's Office of Kansas City Missouri I will be happy to post it again, you could refer back to my post, or you can look it up on kcmo.org

The only real violation I see at the residence (and this one is in the codes enforcement guide online is well), is a sign ordinance.

Realistically, they could even post "No Trespessing" signs in the yard, but that still doesn't cover the public easement.

I metal detect as a hobby, and not that I've done it but I know a group who has in the past, they can metal detect within the easement along the property next to the road and dig holes to search for coins and jewlery. Once again, not something I endorse but it's legal.

I'm pretty sure the ordinance you posted does not give the public any right to occupy a public easement for a period of time. I think all it does is give the public access to it in order to get from the street to somewhere else and in this case, there is no public sidewalk to get to. No public nuthin' is beyond the public street in which to justify the tresspassing, imo.

I would not advise anyone to dig on someone else's property without permission. Even public utilities notify homeowners prior to digging. And homeowners are supposed to notify utilities before they dig into it.

JMO

 

[Whisperer]

BBM First of all, a 'march for justice' is NOT a prayer vigil. Secondly, from Penguin Park to anywhere, especially to the Irwin's is NOT a stroll down a country lane. Third point, if she were showing up AT my house with a 'march', I would hope her azz ends up in jail. This is not about Lisa; this is about Edith putting her face out there.

On Sunday, the two-month anniversary of Lisa’s disappearance, Fine-Duskin and about 15 others held a prayer vigil at Penguin Park in the Northland. She said she is organizing a “march for justice for baby Lisa” to be held Sunday, starting at the same park and going to the Irwin residence.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/03/3303813/mother-who-knows-pain-of-an-unsolved.html#ixzz1fnmgdu9l

Well, a March for Justice shouldn't be against the law. BTW, how far is Penguin Park from the Irwin house?

 

[Whisperer]

Wow!, Deflection and spin seems to be working. Too much time is being spent discussing Edith and her problems..once again taking away from the obvious. Searching for Lisa and her killer should be priority. Even Edith knows that. Nobody is listening. We're killing the messenger.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Not trying to argue but I do want to say I don't think they would have room in the easement of the property to do a prayer vigil. They were on the Irwin's front lawn at night close to the house. They maybe could line up at the easement but even then if they just stood there talking and it disturbed neighbors I am pretty sure LE would ask them to leave.

Just a thought...The folks having the prayer vigil could legally do so in the public easement portion of the property, this is their constitutional right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Just as DB and JI are exercising their constitutional right to remain silent, these folks have a right to pray. LE may ask them to leave but they are well within their rights to be in the public easement.JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Just a thought...The folks having the prayer vigil could legally do so in the public easement portion of the property, this is their constitutional right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Just as DB and JI are exercising their constitutional right to remain silent, these folks have a right to pray. LE may ask them to leave but they are well within their rights to be in the public easement.JMO.

The constitution does not address public easements last I checked.

How would anyone know where the easement began and ended if it is not marked?

JMO

 

[Sparklin]

Who cares? If they are concerned about finding Lisa then they should be down at police headquarters answering questions, instead of making a big deal about the local character that seems a little too involved. Why is Edith even on their radar? It seems they would have bigger fish to fry. If is was me, and my child was missing, this would be a very minor thing. Seems to be the opinion of other people who have had missing children as well.

MOO

I haven't heard or seen anything that claims Edith was in D/J's radar. I don't think they singled her out in particular. They wanted this 'gathering' to be moved elsewhere. It doesn't matter what the reasons were, it should have been respected and they should just have moved on. No need for words to be shouted or anger to take over. Edith is not saying anything negative about Deb or Jeremy as far as I have seen, neither are they about her.
People deal with situations differently, depending on their social status, education, knowledge of situation, experience, emotional state etc... It doesn't matter what you or others would or have done. Deb and Jeremy are doing what they are doing for reasons that, even though some fine ominous, aren't necessarily. Everyone has their opinion as to why, how, what, who and so on...but the reality is, we don't KNOW, we just assume.

 

[hambirg]

You would take an eight year old on a search for the head of a decapitated little girl? Really?

Absolutely! If my child felt compelled to be involved. I don't shelter them from the grisly realities of this world. Instead I try to teach them that people are mostly good. . .unfortunately, there are some messed up people in this world. There are people that don't share our values either, I helped my oldest do a report on abortion. She searched and I didn't censor it at all. I want her to form her own opinions based on what's out there. I don't regret any of my decisions when it comes to my kids. Let them seek their own truth. Let them explore the realities and make their own decisions. If that means that in their heart they feel compelled to search for an innocent child that was decapitated by an evil in this world, then so be it. Who am I to hide the truth from them? Who am I to try to squash the good that comes from their hearts? Nobody said it was easy being a parent. And this is just my own personal philosophy. I want my children to be prepared for this world. . .and sadly that means both the good and the bad.

ETA-My own personal philosophy is also that I am not in control of what God put them on this earth to do. I will express my concerns, but their purpose is bigger than me. If they have more courage and drive than I do, than so be it. They are here for a reason, and where ever their hearts take them is up to God, not me. I will do my best to facilitate what ever good comes from them. . . whatever that may be. I do not own them. God has just entrusted them to me for a short period of time.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

The constitution does not address public easements last I checked.

How would anyone know where the easement began and ended if it is not marked?

JMO

F WIW...The 1st amendment to the Constitution, among other things, gives folks the right to assemble....this in turn gives folks the right to gather in the public easement to pray,protest or whatever as long as it is peaceful.