Porepunkah shooting: Two officers dead and another wounded after shooting at High Country property, Victoria, Australia

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  • #1,221
Seems to answer my question.



"The wife of Dezi Freeman is considering leaving her spouse after he allegedly gunned down two police officers and escaped into bushland, prompting a 10-day

But in reality, they will never, ever be living together anyway…..
 
  • #1,222
Agreed, if it was a home made shotgun like they say, it's hard to imagine how he succeeded. Even a normal double barrel is two shots then reload. How on earth he managed to shoot three officers without return fire through a flimsy bus, I don't know. You could say one shot hit two of the officers, it is a shotgun after all. So he shot at least twice. According to the reports once through the bus door, then managed to open the bus window and shoot again. No return fire? I just don't understand. You could say maybe he was holding Mali hostage, but - and I don't really know this for sure - I would think if being shot at / hit, the police would return fire regardless of a hostage... correct?

There's two things that I keep thinking about on this case - the above and how / where Mali and her two children got away without being apprehended.
I’ve been curious about this aspect as well. Google is fairly informative; I’ve watched videos of home made shotguns operating as semi automatics with approximately three/four seconds between discharges. I’m not sure what maximum capacity is but counted at least six shotgun rounds present in the loading ‘magazine’ ( not really a magazine but for lack of a better term I’m calling it that)

Given a high stress situation, I don’t three’ish seconds would allow an individual enough time to comprehend let alone respond, if an appropriate response could be enacted in that time.

I don’t know what equipment was available to manufacture any weapons, but they are stupidly simple in construction (in my opinion only)
 
  • #1,223
I am presuming the guns that Dez took from the policemen's dead body were Smith and Wesson because that is what is regularly issued to VICPOL< I think NSW POL are issued with Glocks , what number I don't know ( since I looked it up, now I know NSW is issued both S @ W and Glock )

VICPOL
Smith & Wesson M&P semi-automatic pistol Each operational officer is armed with a semiautomatic handgun. The .40 calibre gun has a 15-round magazine capacity. Potential for misuse: Can be used to threat or to force compliance if drawn. Dangers to public: Penetrative injuries, particularly head, neck and torso trauma, death, (lethal).

NSWPOL
The NSW Police Force currently issues several types of firearms, including:
( could Des make a semi automatic weapon? ) this is Dez we are talking about, not a skilled ironmonger or steelworker...
No idea, but it’s likely he has at least the 2 S&W’s, and a shotgun and rifle of his own. How much ammo he has is anyone’s guess.
I wonder if the police fired any shots during the ambush.

Police previously seized weapons from Freeman, but he is understood to have kept a home-made shotgun and hunting rifle.


https://7news.com.au/news/porepunka...ling-two-cops-and-injuring-a-third-c-19816856
 
  • #1,224
Seems to answer my question.



"The wife of Dezi Freeman is considering leaving her spouse after he allegedly gunned down two police officers and escaped into bushland, prompting a 10-day search "
Pretty obvious that that ship has well and truly sailed.......
 
  • #1,225
  • #1,226
No idea, but it’s likely he has at least the 2 S&W’s, and a shotgun and rifle of his own. How much ammo he has is anyone’s guess.
I wonder if the police fired any shots during the ambush.

Police previously seized weapons from Freeman, but he is understood to have kept a home-made shotgun and hunting rifle.


‘Sovereign citizen’ who allegedly murdered cops is ‘heavily armed’ and a bush survival expert
I am having difficulty in grasping the idea that Dez could manufacture a gun that fires so (a) accurately and (b) so rapidly, ... that is, he doesn't reload, his chamber has multiple holds, ... could Dez create such thing?? in a bus?? with all the family clomping around , a 2 yr old??Marli? wouldn't he nee, like, .. equipment, welding equip, and fine measuring artifacts and cutters and whatnot? My opinion of Dez's capacity for sustained detailed work is not high.

I don't make guns, as a hobby , I make clothing as a hobby, good stuff, too, and I need a lot of equip for that, solid equip, great German scissors, correct needles, perfect cotton, accurate patterns , chalk, fitting model, bobbins , good bobbins , elastic, tape , on and on, and that's just for a pair of pants. I need the whole corner of a room, often the whole room to fling stuff around.

I am open to believing it, I am just having trouble getting over the last fence of it, Dez making his own killiing tool THAT WORKED PERFECTLY under stressful conditions.
 
  • #1,227
No idea, but it’s likely he has at least the 2 S&W’s, and a shotgun and rifle of his own. How much ammo he has is anyone’s guess.
I wonder if the police fired any shots during the ambush.

Police previously seized weapons from Freeman, but he is understood to have kept a home-made shotgun and hunting rifle.


‘Sovereign citizen’ who allegedly murdered cops is ‘heavily armed’ and a bush survival expert
ammo , thats another thing, do homemade guns require homemade ammo??
 
  • #1,228
I’ve been curious about this aspect as well. Google is fairly informative; I’ve watched videos of home made shotguns operating as semi automatics with approximately three/four seconds between discharges. I’m not sure what maximum capacity is but counted at least six shotgun rounds present in the loading ‘magazine’ ( not really a magazine but for lack of a better term I’m calling it that)

Given a high stress situation, I don’t three’ish seconds would allow an individual enough time to comprehend let alone respond, if an appropriate response could be enacted in that time.

I don’t know what equipment was available to manufacture any weapons, but they are stupidly simple in construction (in my opinion only)

bolded by me for clarity .... thanks for that, the word 'magazine' was on the tip of my fingers but just would not lay down.
 
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  • #1,229
Agreed, if it was a home made shotgun like they say, it's hard to imagine how he succeeded. Even a normal double barrel is two shots then reload. How on earth he managed to shoot three officers without return fire through a flimsy bus, I don't know. You could say one shot hit two of the officers, it is a shotgun after all. So he shot at least twice. According to the reports once through the bus door, then managed to open the bus window and shoot again. No return fire? I just don't understand. You could say maybe he was holding Mali hostage, but - and I don't really know this for sure - I would think if being shot at / hit, the police would return fire regardless of a hostage... correct?

There's two things that I keep thinking about on this case - the above and how / where Mali and her two children got away without being apprehended.
I was wondering if Mali or the teenage son may have been firing too, but I suspect that the police were wearing body cams and this probably would have been revealed. Dez apparently had a shotgun and a rifle of his own. He was probably the sole shooter, and got both officers as they arrived at his door. The third was possibly behind and got hit in the leg whilst diving for cover. I’d guess that Dez was then in a mad scramble to leave otherwise the officer under the bus probably would have been detected and fired at again.

I think the 4 of them (Dez, Mali, and the 2 kids) took off through a back exit (police were at the front entrance). How Mali and the kids got to the friend’s place where they were/are staying is intriguing. Did they have a car at their disposal at the back of the property, or did they phone a friend for a lift or did they all walk out? The toddler would have needed to be carried which would slow things down. I’d guess that they immediately left the property through a back exit and either split up or stayed together until later that day. If Dezi did leave the property with his family, did he ever actually go to ground in the bush?
 
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  • #1,230
Back on the 27th August, we were told that Freeman took one Police handgun and 30 rounds of ammo - and also had multiple high powered weapons. At some stage we were told he had a home made rifle/gun also.



After an initial investigation, which included questioning his wife, police believe he is armed with multiple high-powered weapons, including a stolen police handgun with 30 rounds of ammunition.



 
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  • #1,231
"He had high-powered rifles and he had military rifles," he says.

"He has got stuff that you wouldn't even dream about. I saw it with my own eyes, years ago."

Dezi Freeman: the church-going, gun-owning bushman on the loose
I bet he was cranky that he had to leave all that good stuff behind...his bazooka, his ground to air missile, his star tracker, his drone collection!!! heartbreaking, he could only take what he could carry, and carry while running, too. He must be sitting in his leaky cold dugout, dreaming of all his warfare clobber, full of regret!!

With all the equip he is carting along, he must sound like a broken tractor bashing thru the bush.. he could not be moving silently, nor moving without knocking off branches and pieces of plant life.. leaving for an experienced tracker a trail as well lit up as Bourke Street.
 
  • #1,232
I wonder if the article in the Australian was deliberate.
We know all the mines you could be hiding in.
 
  • #1,233
ammo , thats another thing, do homemade guns require homemade ammo??
At a guess I doubt it. Homemade ammo would be way too complicated to make and dodgy to use wouldn't you think? You’d surely design your gun to use store bought ammo. Maybe Dezi got the gun off his wooden knife making buddy. Didn’t someone say his compound mate was a forger or something?
 
  • #1,234
I bet he was cranky that he had to leave all that good stuff behind...his bazooka, his ground to air missile, his star tracker, his drone collection!!! heartbreaking, he could only take what he could carry, and carry while running, too. He must be sitting in his leaky cold dugout, dreaming of all his warfare clobber, full of regret!!

With all the equip he is carting along, he must sound like a broken tractor bashing thru the bush.. he could not be moving silently, nor moving without knocking off branches and pieces of plant life.. leaving for an experienced tracker a trail as well lit up as Bourke Street.

This makes me wonder about the sniffer dogs. I don't think they would have had any trouble picking up the scent of Dezi!
 
  • #1,235
I am having difficulty in grasping the idea that Dez could manufacture a gun that fires so (a) accurately and (b) so rapidly, ... that is, he doesn't reload, his chamber has multiple holds, ... could Dez create such thing?? in a bus?? with all the family clomping around , a 2 yr old??Marli? wouldn't he nee, like, .. equipment, welding equip, and fine measuring artifacts and cutters and whatnot? My opinion of Dez's capacity for sustained detailed work is not high.

I don't make guns, as a hobby , I make clothing as a hobby, good stuff, too, and I need a lot of equip for that, solid equip, great German scissors, correct needles, perfect cotton, accurate patterns , chalk, fitting model, bobbins , good bobbins , elastic, tape , on and on, and that's just for a pair of pants. I need the whole corner of a room, often the whole room to fling stuff around.

I am open to believing it, I am just having trouble getting over the last fence of it, Dez making his own killiing tool THAT WORKED PERFECTLY under stressful conditions.
Your hobby and craftsmanship sounds amazing Troops.

Unlike you, and for reasons you mentioned, I strongly doubt that Dezi would possess the ability, resources or discipline to make a functioning gun.

JMO
 
  • #1,236
Ah, I forgot to add - according to reports, after shooting the police officers through the bus door / out the bus window, he's not just bolted away. He's gone out of the bus, to the bodies and taken their service weapons.

Like I said, I can't wrap my head around it. Is he Superman? The Flash?
He’s a tightly wound elastic band that’s snapped.

In my mind, he’s obsessively planned and mentally prepared himself to ambush police for years. But was it hot or cold blood?

He had an upper hand with the bus. He’s higher up so his bullets can travel further; there’s limited entryways and doors/windows are reinforced against external forces; he’s surrounded by a metal box with a familiar interior as protection; police wouldn’t shoot first; he has 360 visibility to the outside while the officers contend with glare/reflection in the glass.

The thing that gets me is that it doesn’t sound like there was much discussion, shots happened before interrogation? Why was it life or death so quickly?

It seems like he’d relish at another opportunity to fight the police in the Supreme Court, based on past performance. Why not this? Were there not similar investigations in 2021?

Was there something incriminating in the bus to hide? Had he become so paranoid that he felt doomsday was really here and the police were finally taking him down?

The fake gun would destroy any chance at a gun licence or gun club membership ever again, at the very least. We know he was blaming one particular policewoman in the speeding case for losing those before. He was contemptuous.

And as police entered his property that day, he was facing the humiliation of being caught red handed with at least one ghost gun. He’s broke and can’t play the victim to get out of it. Is he manufacturing a gun himself? Or is there an associate who supplied it?

Or was it all in complete cold blood, with him planning an ambush at his earliest opportunity, regardless of police intentions?
 
  • #1,237
This makes me wonder about the sniffer dogs. I don't think they would have had any trouble picking up the scent of Dezi!
Yet they haven’t.

Or have they, hence the continued focus on the bush and the mines search? 🤔
 
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  • #1,238
DBM
 
  • #1,239
At a guess I doubt it. Homemade ammo would be way too complicated to make and dodgy to use wouldn't you think? You’d surely design your gun to use store bought ammo. Maybe Dezi got the gun off his wooden knife making buddy. Didn’t someone say his compound mate was a forger or something?
It’s not super uncommon for (normal licensed, law abiding) gun owners to reload their own ammunition. You need a bit of specialised equipment though, it’s not just stuff you can throw together out of someone’s tool shed for example (reloading press, dies for resizing, seating & crimping, a powder measure, funnels, precise scales, priming tools, trimmers, brushes, deburring tools to prepare & clean the bullet cases, plus the actual powder, primers and cases).

Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the kind of bloke to get into it - suspect he’d like the feeling of “control” and associated big manly man vibes of course 🙄 - but it’s a lot of equipment to have laying around in the scrub just in case you decide to go on the lam, not to mention the specific consumables he’d need for whatever calibre firearms he has on him. Have attached a pic of a reloading kit for reference.
IMG_2946.webp


It’s all fairly simple to source for a licensed gun owner in Australia, he’d run into problems with his gun licence revoked (dealers literally just can’t sell it to you) but I wouldn’t put it past another weirdo of his ilk to purchase supplies on his behalf and pass them on (be it before or after the shooting).

Edit to add:
Would be interesting to see the level of detail police can access from licensed firearms dealers on anyone local or associated with Filby - obviously gun purchases would be recorded meticulously, but I wonder how specific the information is on powders, cases etc.
Wild speculation here of course, but it would be just fantastic if there happened to be decent close up body cam footage (assuming he only stole the slain officers’ guns) showing perhaps a shiny new component of the “home made” gun, or physical evidence left behind at the scene of the shooting that might correlate with an associate of ding dong’s recent purchases.
 
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  • #1,240
I am having difficulty in grasping the idea that Dez could manufacture a gun that fires so (a) accurately and (b) so rapidly, ... t

I don't make guns, as a hobby , I make clothing as a hobby, good stuff, too, and I need a lot of equip for that, solid equip, great German scissors, correct needles, perfect cotton, accurate patterns , chalk, fitting model, bobbins , good bobbins , elastic, tape , on and on, and that's just for a pair of pants. I need the whole corner of a room, often the whole room to fling stuff around.

I am open to believing it, I am just having trouble getting over the last fence of it, Dez making his own killiing tool THAT WORKED PERFECTLY under stressful conditions.
Your clothing hobby is based on skills and tools. In an age where nearly everything is factory made, these skills and tools allow you to produce things that regular people would have absolutely no idea how to do.

Guns are tthe same combination of skills and tools that you possess. I have no doubt in my mind that you could make guns if you wanted to.

That aside, lets say that he needed to make the guns largely from scratch instead of just buying parts and assembling them. He would need machinist or gun smithing skillls (nearly identical). Tool wise, he would need:

- A sewing machine: Really a metal lathe ( about say, 2-3 feet long), computer controlled would be a plus. Hand controlled is cheaper and works fine. $500- to say, $1500 dollars depending on features and manufacturer. If you want it to say "USA", "Japan", or "Germany", you need to pay.

- A secondary sewing machine: Well, actually a milling machine. Ditto to everything with the lathe. Sometimes, they can be bought as a set. Cost is the same as the lathe.

- Needles: Well, tooling for the lathe and milling machine. As with needles, quality machine tooling from Japan or Germany is a plus. But.... its not really needed. Say, $200-600 dollars

- Scissors: Ok, metal files. Like your quality Sissors, quality metal files are a thing of industrial art. Rare these days. But..... in the age of the internet, nothing is really hard to find. Say, $100-300 dollars. More if your want the artisan / pro ones.

- Notions: Screw drivers, metal punches, awls, Dremel type tools (can sub as metal files if needed), ball peen hammers, tap and dye set . Say....$200-300. Less if used.

- Patterns: Except with guns, they would be called blue print level drawings, of "actions" (trigger mechanisms) bolts etc. Likely free on line for older, bolt action military rifles. Or, can be ordered from specialty sources for the same guns.

- Cloth: In the form of metal stock, maybe some wood stock if you want to get fancy. $300-500 would get "cloth" for multiple guns.

- Then add... your level of dedication, commitment and the time that you have given to your sewing skills. Natural hand skill would be a plus.

For rifles (home made, breech loading shot guns would need only basic tools): A Barrell cutting machine. Sort of like a lathe. This is a specialized gunsmithing tool and could get relatively pricey.
But.... just like you can probably rig a regular sewing machine to duplicate an advanced feature, one can probably use a regular lathe for this as well.
 
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