Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[ElleElle]

I very firmly believe she shot him last. If the dragging picture shows her dragging him with her left hand beneath his arm pit, and his neck wasn't completely severed, I do believe that, as she dragged him that closely to his head, she heard what sounded like him groaning, but it was gurgling from the slashed throat. So at the sink, she shot him.

I had this debate for a long time in another thread that was removed during the trial, and nothing that anyone passionately arguing in there convinced me that the gunshot was first. I don't believe I need to see a wound track in the brain to believe the bullet went through the brain. Additionally, I don't think she could have achieved that steep trajectory unless his head wasn't sitting properly on his neck.

I suppose the gunshot could of been last to stop the eerie sounds.

Which leads me to another question? No one heard any of this? It seems to me Travis' house was in close proximity to other homes.

I wonder if there was loud music on and if so, which song?

 

[ElleElle]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I remember the dog story. Was that Naps? And was that when Dan Freeman said they'd showed up unannounced while she was watching the secret? I believe Freeman said Travis was paying her back for rolling up on him unannounced.

Elle--

We're talking about where she was before she moved to AZ. When she moved, she hurriedly moved in with Rachel. It's funny because she wrote in her journal that she was staying at Rachel's but couldn't tell Travis that; however, she'd also testified that Travis had helped her move to AZ. So if Travis was involved with the move, when did he stop liking Rachel, who she was moving in with?

Then, Rachel popped up talking about getting married a week after Jodi got there, and told Jodi she had to leave. So Jodi scrambled to find a place, and she eventually found someone who was renting a room close to Travis, but not in his ward.

Reading between the lines like ALV, I conclude that after Travis broke up with Jodi for being in Big Sur with Matt, Jodi decided to rush and move, just like she did when she ran away from home, ran off after Bobby (when he lived with Matt), ran off to south american when her relationship with Matt had failed, etc, and Rachel probably told Jodi at the start, "Look, I'm getting married in a couple weeks." And Jodi probably begged her way in, thinking she'd be able to con more of a stay or Travis would take her in. Rachel's husband, however, moved in with Rachel, not the other way around, so Jodi had to go--period.

I can't think of another reason she'd move herself from working at Big Sur to having no job or sure place to stay and no real bed. That's insane unless she really thought she'd be able to get into one of Travis' rooms for rent. Travis probably told her, "Look, you can clean it since you have no job, but you can't live in it," in regard to the house.

BBM ~ I believe it's a no-no to have co-ed singles in the Mormon community?

Jodi was the "housekeeper"? It was a weird arrangement.

 

[ElleElle]

Oh, the dye job.

I confess that with the plethora of other hard forensic evidence, I spent little time pondering it.

Sorry...

In fact, I found the Starbucks skater prankster gang more interesting.

<snipped for space>

Far be it from me to level accusations here, but the observant among us will no doubt take note of the fact that a license plate has gone missing from the bumper of that Chevy directly behind him.

Also note that the curb is not sufficiently high enough to obscure a leaning license plate of standard height from that angle.

(I clearly paid too much attention to the testimony and evidence in this case.)

The license plate thing bugs me. Why the heck would she flip it? Isn't that more suspicious?

I still think she brought along the AZ plates from the BMW with her and switched the plates in Pasadena, so once she was in AZ she had AZ plates.

In a haste, she flipped them back upon leaving AZ and screwed up screwing the CA plates back on.

 

[Truth Detector]

I live in a state where there is no front plate required for the car so one missing does not mean it was stolen.

No, but that fits JA's fantasy and tickles my funny bone.

So, there's that.

 

[Truth Detector]

I suppose the gunshot could of been last to stop the eerie sounds.

Which leads me to another question? No one heard any of this? It seems to me Travis' house was in close proximity to other homes.

I wonder if there was loud music on and if so, which song?

Mesa would have just passed its high temperature for the murder date, 6/4/2008, which was 98 degrees Fahrenheit.

Every home in that neighborhood would have been shut up tighter than a drum with A/C units running.

One shot from a small .25 caliber handgun, inside the bathroom with bedroom and other doors closed, would not likely have been heard inside any neighboring home.

I believe that her attack on him was so swift, vicious, entirely unexpected and totally surprising that he was in shock. She killed him AND was dragging him all the way back in less than three minutes, IIRC.

We know that he reflexively (IMO) tried to get away, fend off blows, etc.

Sadly, I also believe that he begged her for help (a little truth she wove into her ninja story) as he was wet, naked, bloody and bleeding out, not fully realizing that she was his attacker. [I've never bled out, but I can imagine the shock and pain signals coupled with the blood loss might inhibit the brain's ability to process what, precisely, was occurring during one's rapid and violent death at the hands of a declared 'friend'.] Yes, he begged for her to get help, but she had other ideas.

This and the sounds which indicated to her that he was not yet quite dead -- she was not particularly patient as she was already behind schedule -- are what resulted in her decision to shoot him with one bullet, a bullet which wasn't even required, as she had already dragged him to death's door by then.

 

[LambChop]

No, but that fits JA's fantasy and tickles my funny bone.

So, there's that.

LOL. Don't give her any credit. She had 5 years and a number of psychologists to help her think up all this stuff.

 

[Truth Detector]

The license plate thing bugs me. Why the heck would she flip it? Isn't that more suspicious?

I still think she brought along the AZ plates from the BMW with her and switched the plates in Pasadena, so once she was in AZ she had AZ plates.

In a haste, she flipped them back upon leaving AZ and screwed up screwing the CA plates back on.

Interesting theory which would not surprise me in the least.

Depending upon where the BMW was during this time frame... did she have opportunity... was it under passive surveillance before or after her murderous road trip... many questions there.

 

[ElleElle]

Mesa would have just passed its high temperature for the murder date, 6/4/2008, which was 98 degrees Fahrenheit.

Every home in that neighborhood would have been shut up tighter than a drum with A/C units running.

One shot from a small .25 caliber handgun, inside the bathroom with bedroom and other doors closed, would not likely have been heard inside any neighboring home.

I believe that her attack on him was so swift, vicious, entirely unexpected and totally surprising that he was in shock. She killed him AND was dragging him all the way back in less than three minutes, IIRC.

We know that he reflexively (IMO) tried to get away, fend off blows, etc.

Sadly, I also believe that he begged her for help (a little truth she wove into her ninja story) as he was wet, naked, bloody and bleeding out, not fully realizing that she was his attacker. [I've never bled out, but I can imagine the shock and pain signals coupled with the blood loss might inhibit the brain's ability to process what, precisely, was occurring during one's rapid and violent death at the hands of a declared 'friend'.] Yes, he begged for her to get help, but she had other ideas.

This and the sounds which indicated to her that he was not yet quite dead -- she was not particularly patient as she was already behind schedule -- are what resulted in her decision to shoot him with one bullet, a bullet which wasn't even required, as she had already dragged him to death's door by then.

BBM ~ :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I believe Jodi was on a "schedule" due to not knowing when the roommates would return. Also, RB was expecting her.

To add to the blood loss, both their adrenalines levels were at maximum peak and myself being in a major accident remember how the human body kicks into survival mode.

 

[ElleElle]

Interesting theory which would not surprise me in the least.

Depending upon where the BMW was during this time frame... did she have opportunity... was it under passive surveillance before or after her murderous road trip... many questions there.

Wasn't the BMW stored in CA as it would not start which caused Travis to get upset?

Off to sleuth...

 

[LambChop]

Wasn't the BMW stored in CA as it would not start which caused Travis to get upset?

Off to sleuth...

JA only got a short distance down the road with the BMW and I think she said she was getting on the freeway. I believe Travis had the BMW towed to a garage for repairs. It could not be driven and Travis was trying to find out if the rental insurance company would pay for the repairs. It's possible the BMW was still at the garage waiting for the repairs to be done when Travis was killed. If Jodi wasn't paying Travis why would he go ahead and fix the car? jmo

 

[ElleElle]

JA only got a short distance down the road with the BMW and I think she said she was getting on the freeway. I believe Travis had the BMW towed to a garage for repairs. It could not be driven and Travis was trying to find out if the rental insurance company would pay for the repairs. It's possible the BMW was still at the garage waiting for the repairs to be done when Travis was killed. If Jodi wasn't paying Travis why would he go ahead and fix the car? jmo

Yes, it seems like Jodi was hauling the BMW on the U-Haul when moving back to Yreka and it was left in 1st gear and ruined the transmission.

I believe Jodi promised Travis she would still make the payments even though it was undrive-able. But, where was the BMW? AZ, Redding?

I sometimes wonder if that was Jodi tool to get to Travis' that night. Was she coming over to make a "payment"?

 

[Truth Detector]

Wasn't the BMW stored in CA as it would not start which caused Travis to get upset?

Off to sleuth...

Well, she supposedly bought it from him and then quickly tore the transmission out of it via improper prep and towing during her move from Mesa back to Yreka.

I do not know its physical whereabouts beyond that point, but she supposedly wrote this check, drawn on her WaMu account and found at the murder scene, in payment on it:

Of course, she knew that a dead man couldn't deposit or cash it, so I'm sure it was worthless.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, it seems like Jodi was hauling the BMW on the U-Haul when moving back to Yreka and it was left in 1st gear and ruined the transmission.

I believe Jodi promised Travis she would still make the payments even though it was undrive-able. But, where was the BMW? AZ, Redding?

I sometimes wonder if that was Jodi tool to get to Travis' that night. Was she coming over to make a "payment"?

I believe she was still in Mesa because he had the car towed. And I don't think she showed up just to give him the car payment. Who would spend $200 in gas just to drop off a check?

 

[Ricki]

New tweet from the jail birds tweeter.

Jodi Arias &#8207;@JodiAnnArias 34m

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[LambChop]

Did they turn the electric off in her cell?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

New tweet from the jail birds tweeter.

Jodi Arias &#8207;@JodiAnnArias 34m

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I'm so sure he would be thrilled to be quoted by this convicted murderer.




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[ElleElle]

I believe she was still in Mesa because he had the car towed. And I don't think she showed up just to give him the car payment. Who would spend $200 in gas just to drop off a check?

BBM ~ Jodi! :floorlaugh: She would of done anything to be with Travis. She had the CD excuse. I still wonder if she stole other items from Travis, such as jewellery.

I can see Jodi fabricating a story to Travis about how she is fluently dating, making money and putting on a show so Travis will take her back. Travis being a young man just wanted sex. Now, I know there is much debate over whether Jodi had Travis hostage on Jun4, or if he willingly wanted to do a photo shoot with his new camera which was also Jodi's forte and he can get some "tips" from her. Did they agree to be friends, or was their bond completely severed?

:facepalm: They were both clean shaven, which to me is a clue that he participated voluntary in cam sex. I highly doubt Travis was having sex with another woman pre Jun4.

 

[wasnt_me]

I suppose the gunshot could of been last to stop the eerie sounds.

Which leads me to another question? No one heard any of this? It seems to me Travis' house was in close proximity to other homes.

I wonder if there was loud music on and if so, which song?

I don't know how thick his walls were. Jodi claimed they were thin--at least on the inside. I live in townhomes that are connected to each other, and when my neighbor blasts music, I can only hear it if I go outside. It's muffled then, and I can't hear it once I get about I'd say 10 or 15 feet down the driveway. Same for my own music. I REALLY blast mine, and my neighbors have never asked me to turn it down. The only time I can hear my neighbors is when we each happen to be in our basements.

Oh, but if she had music on, I'm thinking "You oughta know!" by Alanis.

That's something I never thought of--whether music was on. If she had music on, Travis didn't seem to indicate it had put him in a posing mood from the looks of those pictures.

BBM ~ I believe it's a no-no to have co-ed singles in the Mormon community?

Jodi was the "housekeeper"? It was a weird arrangement.

You're right about that, I think, but that doesn't mean Jodi knew it or accepted it. Anal sex, vaginal sex, oral sex, candy sex, etc are big no-no's, too, but she talked him into it.

It's like I was saying about his friend who'd videoed Jodi laying in his lap and had the picture of Jodi in a robe outside of a hotel room and Travis behind her, kissing her on the back of the head. Those images create the idea that those two were having sex or at least putting themselves in tempting situations, things also disallowed in the church but recorded in video and pictures.

I believe those were done in the summer of 2007, which to me indicates that Travis might not have been as concerned about how things looked as Jodi tries to make us believe.

Yeah, she cleaned the house. I don't know about "housekeeper," but she cleaned it. that's how she claimed to see Travis' nonexistent gun.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think the bathroom would have muffled the sounds. And also if the water was running.

It is do horrible to think about. Poor Travis.

How anyone could believe her cow chips is beyond me.


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[wasnt_me]

LOL. Don't give her any credit. She had 5 years and a number of psychologists to help her think up all this stuff.

Lambchop,

I came back to tell you it was day 39 at about 18 or 19 minutes in: ALV was asked when TA and JA had solidified a relationship. ALV explained that they got in the relationship in feb 2007, but Travis didn't want to term it "boyfriend-girlfriend."

So I interpret that to mean it wasn't even official then.

ALV also made other enlightening statements about this relationship. Skye Hughes describes Travis as replying in that January 2007 email to her and Chris, telling them to relax because he'd only seen Jodi like 5 times since he'd met her. I thought Travis had been exaggerating to tell Sky 5 times, but ALV describes 5 meetings as occurring between the initial meeting at MGM and the Skye/Chris/Travis emails.

ALV also details that Jodi had sent Travis an email Jan 2, 2007, asking him how they should view their relationship. She told Travis that she was monogamous and only dated one guy at a time. While ALV used the word "monogamous," her emphasis was more on Jodi conveying that she didn't know whether to tell people she was in a relationship, and even though Travis had told her to date other people, she was confused about whether she should accept or decline other men's interests. I want to say this is around the time she went out with Abe and/or John Dixon (in December 2006, I think.)

I'd like to see that email to really validate whether they'd had any intimacy in the 5 or so times she'd seen Travis after they'd met. So far, these are the times I've noted that she'd seen Travis before her Jan email.

Sept 2006
MGM grand
Hughes House
Starbucks near her and Darryl's house

October 2006
Aranberg

November 2006
Baptism

January (don't know date) 2007
Travis and Dan freeman show up at her house. (Guess Darryl was gone?)

January 7, 2007--her email asking to define relationship.
End of Jan 2007--Jodi launched Skye and Chris into it, and Travis says he'd only seen Jodi 5 or so times, and he was still trying to get to know if he wanted her as a GF.

I still want to say there's one more meeting where she showed unannounced at his house before he showed up at her house, but I have to find it.

So if I'm correct about all this, then the theory we have about the sex not even being focal is likely true. I can totally see Travis being hesitant about a woman living and sharing a mortgage with another man--no matter what Jodi said was going on with her and Darryl. Then once Travis opens to her, not 5 months later, she's living with an ex in Big Sur? Yeah, breakup! jmo