Profile of the killer

[sissi]

The Whites were favorite suspects of others,besides Pam.



KEITH ANDREWS--Criminologist:
"I have analysed the 'ransom note' left at the Ramsey's home by the killer, and noted several strong matches regarding grammar, phrasing and style between the note and the wording of Fleet White's letter of January 16, 1998 to the Daily Camera. The phrase: 'At this time' immediately caught my eye. The phrase 'At this time' starts the third sentence of the ransom note: 'At this time we have your daughter in our possession.' I do not believe Fleet White acted alone. I am certain that his wife Priscilla aided and abetted him."

white letters http://childsearch.us/site8/white_letters.html

 

[Show Me]

'At this time' is a much more common phrase than Fat Cat.

If you've read the Krebs interview transcripts, as I have, you know Nancy lies a great deal. Tramatized or not, she lies. IMO Keith Andrews is a nutcase.

K777angel said:
Pam Paugh was hinting that it was Fleet & Priscilla White who were involved in JonBenet's murder. That is pretty obvious and fits right in with things John and Patsy stated about the White's during their police interviews.

I agree totally! Priscilla was not jealous of Patsy, Priscilla and a few of her friends were concerned with Patsy's pageant obession and planning to talk to her about it after Christmas.

If the Ramsey's have been cleared of the mysterious DNA in JonBenet's underwear, SO HAVE THE WHITES, FERNIES AND EVERYONE ELSE!

IMO it's totally ridiculous to think FW was soooooo jealous of John and Patsy he'd kill JonBenet! Not to mention the fact the Whites had a house full of guests that morning! Even Keenan can't clear the Ramseys of suspicion.


Can any of you Ramsey supporters tell me how Patsy was able to recall the SBTC signoff of the Ramsey note to the 911 operator, when Patsy claimed to have read ONLY the first few lines?

I'd love to hear a reasonable explaination of that amazing feat!

 

[sissi]

'At this time' is a much more common phrase than Fat Cat.

If you've read the Krebs interview transcripts, as I have, you know Nancy lies a great deal. Tramatized or not, she lies. IMO Keith Andrews is a nutcase.

K777angel said:
Pam Paugh was hinting that it was Fleet & Priscilla White who were involved in JonBenet's murder. That is pretty obvious and fits right in with things John and Patsy stated about the White's during their police interviews.

I agree totally! Priscilla was not jealous of Patsy, Priscilla and a few of her friends were concerned with Patsy's pageant obession and planning to talk to her about it after Christmas.

If the Ramsey's have been cleared of the mysterious DNA in JonBenet's underwear, SO HAVE THE WHITES, FERNIES AND EVERYONE ELSE!

IMO it's totally ridiculous to think FW was soooooo jealous of John and Patsy he'd kill JonBenet! Not to mention the fact the Whites had a house full of guests that morning! Even Keenan can't clear the Ramseys of suspicion.


Can any of you Ramsey supporters tell me how Patsy was able to recall the SBTC signoff of the Ramsey note to the 911 operator, when Patsy claimed to have read ONLY the first few lines?

I'd love to hear a reasonable explaination of that amazing feat!

I'm not suggesting the Whites are responisible, I am pointing out that there were people other than Pam who felt they deserved investigation.
Pam was first "hit" with "fat cat", these are words Priscilla used, John Ramsey mentioned this ,as well. Fat cat isn't a part of everyone's vocabulary,therefore it "stood out". There are phrase forms, usage of other words, law enforcement...scrutinized..1997...a flow in the White letters that raised eyebrows, much in the way Patsy's use of the word "hence" did in her 97 Christmas letter.
When the operator asked, "who wrote the letter", Patsy looked for the ending salutation, that isn't a major feat.

 

[twizzler333]

Can any of you Ramsey supporters tell me how Patsy was able to recall the SBTC signoff of the Ramsey note to the 911 operator, when Patsy claimed to have read ONLY the first few lines?

I'd love to hear a reasonable explaination of that amazing feat!

Listen to the tape again. She absolutely sounds like someone who just found the note, discovered her child was gone and called 911. The dispatcher/operator specifically asks her "Does it say who took her?", Patsy said "What?" and the operator repeats the question, and patsy scrambles to see if she can locate that detail. OBVIOUSLY, one would think to look at the end of the note to see if it is signed or if there is some notation as to who was responsible for this. I believe she just looked at the sign off of the note right then when the operator asked her. If you listen to the call again I don't see how you can dispell that. To me she sounded a bit frustruated at the question by the way she said "What?". I think she was wanting the dispatcher to tell her the police are on the way....and instead she asks her a question about the note. I found the 911 call very credible. She was reading SBTC Victory from the note, and sounded to me like she had absolutely no idea who or what that was. Listen again. I personally do not see how anyone sees anything different (or hears).

 

[BrotherMoon]

I personally do not see how anyone sees anything different (or hears).

Nor do you want to.

I hear an act. When she says she only read a few lines she is adopting the air-head woman persona, she is passive/aggressive, she is a chameleon, she is a sociopath.

She mentions the initialism because it is central to her psychotic thinking. She confesses and/or brags about her invovlement in JonBenet's death in the 911 call.

The whole thing was Patsy's personal passion play, and the 911 call was just one scene.

If you adopt a naive, gullible attitude toward human beings you will make a good audience for sociopaths, also a good neighbor in Boulder.

 

[twizzler333]

Nor do you want to.

I hear an act. When she says she only read a few lines she is adopting the air-head woman persona, she is passive/aggressive, she is a chameleon, she is a sociopath.

She mentions the initialism because it is central to her psychotic thinking. She confesses and/or brags about her invovlement in JonBenet's death in the 911 call.

The whole thing was Patsy's personal passion play, and the 911 call was just one scene.

If you adopt a naive, gullible attitude toward human beings you will make a good audience for sociopaths, also a good neighbor in Boulder.

The air-head woman persona???? Are you serious? All the things you describe regarding Patsy's persona are absolutely laughable. I get the feeling you are a cynical bitter specimen. I think you are probably a person who lacks compassion or any sympathy whatsoever for other human beings. I believe you are a person with a short temper and someone who was mistreated by someone in life and now you have all these aggressions built up in you that you must vent in some way and unfortunately you take a minute part of it out on some of us here trying to have an intelligent discussion (even though you will laugh at that term). I have met people like you and you know what? They died ALONE! You know, everything is just not "text book" in this world, as you so obviously seem to believe. If you consider her to be psychotic then I imagine you find the majority of people that way. Do you see yourself that way?

Honestly, I try really hard to see your point of view and lately you have really given me some things to think about because you have made some valid points, but then you go and start the sarcasism and insulting tones and THAT, my dear, is what makes me think that your points may just be a bunch of nothing! Try some kindness for a change, you may just like the result!

 

[Fran Bancroft]

The air-head woman persona???? Are you serious? All the things you describe regarding Patsy's persona are absolutely laughable. I get the feeling you are a cynical bitter specimen. I think you are probably a person who lacks compassion or any sympathy whatsoever for other human beings. I believe you are a person with a short temper and someone who was mistreated by someone in life and now you have all these aggressions built up in you that you must vent in some way and unfortunately you take a minute part of it out on some of us here trying to have an intelligent discussion (even though you will laugh at that term). I have met people like you and you know what? They died ALONE! You know, everything is just not "text book" in this world, as you so obviously seem to believe. If you consider her to be psychotic then I imagine you find the majority of people that way. Do you see yourself that way?

Honestly, I try really hard to see your point of view and lately you have really given me some things to think about because you have made some valid points, but then you go and start the sarcasism and insulting tones and THAT, my dear, is what makes me think that your points may just be a bunch of nothing! Try some kindness for a change, you may just like the result!

Hey, Twiz,
I gotta disagree with you...if Brother Moon were to be kind, I don't think it would help the validity of any of his points. If his points were to be valid, they would be valid regardless of his attitude, just as would be facts. The only thing Brother Moon would accomplish by being nice would be to bore those of us who read his nasty prune comments for entertainment.

So, here's to you Brother Moon, and your most delicious prunes!:dance:

 

[BrotherMoon]

The air-head woman persona???? Are you serious? All the things you describe regarding Patsy's persona are absolutely laughable. I get the feeling you are a cynical bitter specimen. I think you are probably a person who lacks compassion or any sympathy whatsoever for other human beings. I believe you are a person with a short temper and someone who was mistreated by someone in life and now you have all these aggressions built up in you that you must vent in some way and unfortunately you take a minute part of it out on some of us here trying to have an intelligent discussion (even though you will laugh at that term). I have met people like you and you know what? They died ALONE! You know, everything is just not "text book" in this world, as you so obviously seem to believe. If you consider her to be psychotic then I imagine you find the majority of people that way. Do you see yourself that way?

Honestly, I try really hard to see your point of view and lately you have really given me some things to think about because you have made some valid points, but then you go and start the sarcasism and insulting tones and THAT, my dear, is what makes me think that your points may just be a bunch of nothing! Try some kindness for a change, you may just like the result!

Kindness for sociopaths, welcome to Boulder.

Why the personal attacks? I just expressed my opinion.

Maybe the term air-head was too blunt. It is a typical ploy of the passive/aggressive type to take the "silly-old-me" self deprecating posture to lure another into action by placing them in a higher position.

histrionics 1.dramatic representation; theatricals; acting. 2. artificial behavior or speech done for effect.

 

[twizzler333]

I suppose you may be on to something there, but from my point of view, if someone makes a somewhat interesting point then comes back with rude, sometimes visious comments as he has been known to do, I tend to think the person is full of hatred and cannot make a clear open-minded comment.

Personally, I thought to myself just yesterday how he was being so much nicer and making more sense, bringing up really good points, but now I have my doubts. Just my personal opinion and view of it.

I think we have a lot of very intelligent people here who all make good valid points. I just sometimes read the theories or thoughts and then all these questions pop into my mind and I try to find the logic in it, because I feel like we are talking about pretty logical people, not psychotics as he would have me believe.

 

[Show Me]

John had the ransom note spread out on the floor by the staircase, Patsy was on the phone and could not see the words, upside down in the dim light. She never got off the phone to go look. She quickly spelled out SBTC, to the operator as if she knew it by heart.

Brother Moon, is was Patsy acting for sure! Most people, when calling 911, wait for instructions. Heck Patsy couldn't wait to hang up and call the Whites, Fernies, Father Rol.

I always wondered why John was so cavalier with letting Patsy call all those people over with the monitoring gentlemen kidnappers watching.

 

[BrotherMoon]

I always wondered why John was so cavalier with letting Patsy call all those people over with the monitoring gentlemen kidnappers watching.

Very often, in couples, each indiviual's temperamant deficit is compensated by the other's attributes. As: a thinking man will be fulfilled by his wife's feeling ability or a dreamer type by the other's sensory reality testing.

I think John was rightly in a state of confusion, his decision making ability momentarily paralysed. He was open for a passive/aggressive power play. An histrionic display can suck the energy out of those nearby.

 

[sissi]

I"m curious as to how police tactics ,surveillance and countermeasures work.
If someone has your line open, detects your calls, is it possible that their conversation can be picked up ,as well.
I know I can hear my neighbors ,at times , on the baby monitor,and once in awhile I have to change channels or I will pick up anyone on the blocks conversation on my regular phone. There has been a few incidents of picking up sound on the computer, but I'm not sure of the source, it sounded more like a cb radio.
None of what we think is true has solved this crime, I am thinking maybe there was noise from the phone surveillance and that 911 noise was the killers.Patsy hung up, but they didn't? Everyone shouted,"don't look for Zebras" and here we sit, 8 years later.

 

[BrotherMoon]

I"m curious as to how police tactics ,surveillance and countermeasures work.
If someone has your line open, detects your calls, is it possible that their conversation can be picked up ,as well.
I know I can hear my neighbors ,at times , on the baby monitor,and once in awhile I have to change channels or I will pick up anyone on the blocks conversation on my regular phone. There has been a few incidents of picking up sound on the computer, but I'm not sure of the source, it sounded more like a cb radio.
None of what we think is true has solved this crime, I am thinking maybe there was noise from the phone surveillance and that 911 noise was the killers.Patsy hung up, but they didn't? Everyone shouted,"don't look for Zebras" and here we sit, 8 years later.

Ya, that's clear, and right on target. Wha???????????????????

 

[sissi]

Ya, that's clear, and right on target. Wha???????????????????

Okay, there are those that contend Patsy didn't hang up the phone after making the 911,and at the end of the call they heard a young voice say, "what did you find" and an adult say" we're not speaking to you".
I am considering that perhaps this is true, she hung up her line, but the "perp" who was surveilling her line...didn't! An adult male with a younger boy? Could they have been neighbors and actually did what they said they would do in the ransom note, "use police tactics, countermeasures, and surveillance".
No one has considered the possibility that none of this was staged, it is what it is, a planned kidnapping...then of course it went terribly wrong when she died.

 

[twizzler333]

John had the ransom note spread out on the floor by the staircase, Patsy was on the phone and could not see the words, upside down in the dim light. She never got off the phone to go look. She quickly spelled out SBTC, to the operator as if she knew it by heart.

Brother Moon, is was Patsy acting for sure! Most people, when calling 911, wait for instructions. Heck Patsy couldn't wait to hang up and call the Whites, Fernies, Father Rol.

Were you there? How do you know this? Only thing I heard was that it was on the floor. I don't know...but I could have walked over to a note in my floor with my portable phone and stood over it and looked at it. That call was not acting IMO. Meryl Streep, Patsy ain't! She was panicked. I am just amazed sometimes with this information that pops up on this forum sometimes.

 

[sissi]

The White's owned an address on 15th street, does anyone know if it was empty at the end of 1996?

 

[Show Me]

Were you there? How do you know this? Only thing I heard was that it was on the floor. I don't know...but I could have walked over to a note in my floor with my portable phone and stood over it and looked at it. That call was not acting IMO. Meryl Streep, Patsy ain't! She was panicked. I am just amazed sometimes with this information that pops up on this forum sometimes.

No I wasn't there, but John and Patsy were and this is what they wrote in their book DOI paperback ed. page 11-12

"John runs down the main stairs and into the back hallway. I grasp my stomach and run after him. By the time I get to him, he is down on his hands and knees, staring at the sheets of paper spread out on the floor in front of him. He is examining the ransom note, under the ceiling lights of the back hall."
'What do we do?" I stammer.
He shouts, "Call the police!"
"Are you sure?"
"Yes. Call them!"
Standing next to the wall phone, I instantly dial 911, and try to make the voice on the other end of the line understand. It is as if she doesn't believe what I am saying. I slam the phone back into its cradle on the wall."

---------
And sometimes I am amazed at what lengths the Ramsey's fans will go to, to excuse their baffeling behavior. The book DOI came out long before we heard the 911 call.

It's like the sham JonBenet foundation, where John made upteen million promises and kept none. The foundation only served as the Ramsey's publicity machine.

 

[twizzler333]

I wouldn't say I was a Patsy fan. I just have this deep felt connection, as we all do, to JonBenet and want justice for her. IF these other theories made sense to me, I would be going that way. I don't care WHO did this, as long as they are brought to justice. That is all I am concerned with. Honestly, I just don't see the evidence pointing towards them. The only other theory I find even credible in my eyes is the one BlueCrab proposed yesterday about the college student and that foreign group (forgive me- it's early and I cannot recall the names, as they were unusual). Maybe someday a bit of evidence will come forward that we don't know about and I will change my mind, but as of yet, no, I just don't see it. Things you all find "odd behavior", I can honestly see being a valid way of things happening. That's all. We'll keep digging and we're bound to come up with something, I'm sure.

 

[Show Me]

Twizzler sorry did not mean to insult you. I find no evidence of an intruder and IMO it all leads to back to the Ramseys.

We may get our wish when the Fox/Ramsey case goes to trial next month.

 

[Nehemiah]

"I slam the phone back into its cradle on the wall." Patsy in DOI

This is somewhat straying from the topic, but I have always found it interesting that the Ramseys seemingly took the "evidence" and attempted to explain it away in their book. Why else would someone state that they "put the phone back into the cradle on the wall"? I think they had knowledge of the evidence of the recorded voices after hanging up, and they had to attack that. DOI is filled with many such references; I noted that the very first time I read it.

IMO