Question re Ransom Note

[twilight]

Seems Ivy has posted info that the palm print was indeed Melinda's, but on the off chance that it wasn't I have to ask...did they check the painter?

 

[CSEye]

I just got back to see what you all are writing about the ransom note and this is the first time I have seen (through acandyrose link) the comparison with Patsy's handwriting. I don't see how anyone can doubt that she wrote it. Enough said for me. Thanks for the info and reinforcing my suspicions, although it's so sad to admit a mother could have been involved.

 

[Ivy]

twilight, the article is dated August 22, 2002. I think the Rs are living in Michigan now.

The painter... Spoofy Popo? Snarky Bimbam? Darn, what was his WS nickname? Toth, what did you name him to protect his identity? Anyway, twilight, I don't know if the painter's palm print was checked, but apparently it doesn't matter if Melinda's was a match to the basement door palm print.

 

[Toth]

Okay, you've listed a variety of articles which you think might have had duct tape fasted to them for some purpose at some point in time and which supplied the tape that night, but I think you are forgetting that the tape was manufactured during a 29 production-day window. So the roll of duct tape in question had to have been shipped from the factory to a retailer and get onto the retailer's shelves and been purchased and used on some item and then removed from that item. Seems a bit farfetched. And then you have the Ramseys smart enough to get rid of a roll of duct tape but too stupid to get rid of the body?

 

[Toth]

The painter... Spoofy Popo? Snarky Bimbam? Darn, what was his WS nickname? Toth, what did you name him to protect his identity? Anyway, twilight, I don't know if the painter's palm print was checked, but apparently it doesn't matter if Melinda's was a match to the basement door palm print.

I named him "Flippy Esso" which is a moniker I hung on him because a psychiatric social worker described him as having "flipped out" soon after the murder and he was known as a Sex Offender, which is where the SO (esso) came from. Everyone knows his initials, many know his first name, everyone knows how many letters are in his surname but he is to be referred to as Flippy Esso. Even suspected creeps may have turned their lives around in the interim and do not deserve to be dragged through the mud needlessly.

by the way, the palm print has not been matched to ANY person: male, female, young, old, tall, short, fat or thin.

 

[Jayelles]

I missed this post last night.

Jayelles, you should tell this to Britt.

And you're right, we don't know if there were any such fibers inside the knot or on the crotch of the panties. Kane was under no obligation to tell the truth while questioning John and Patsy, and he provided no evidence to support his inferences. In fact, when challenged he dropped the subject entirely.

Just as long as we are clear that even when there IS a perfect match, scientists still cannot describe it as such. That does not change the fact that it is a match.

Also, as you say, Kane was under no obligation to tell the truth. However, this does not automatically mean that he was telling a lie. His refusal to produce a lab report is NOT proof that the lab report did not exist.

For some reason, there are experienced investigators who HAVE seen the Ramsey file and who still believe the parents are involved. The RSt would have us believe that this is all due to some sort of stubborness to concede that they were wrong, but let's face it, at the end of the day, it is even worse for someone's credibility to cling to some misguided belief than it is to acknowledge error and more on with the rest.

Just because the police haven't confirmed that the palmprint is Melinda's or the hair is Patsy's does not mean that they are not. It means that there is an undisputed claim that they are.

I would prefer to reserve judgement until ALL of the evidence comes out. We saw it recently in the Ian Huntley case in the UK. Our Pro Judice laws prevent evidence leaks before a trial and often it appears that suspects are arrested on little or no evidence. Certainly, at the time of Ian Huntley's arrest, there appeared to be little in the way of HARD evidence against him. He had washed his car thoroughly after the girls' disappearance....

At trial, much more came out - very much more. The evidence was so stunning that Huntly sensationally changed his plea in the face of it - where until that point, he had steadfastly pleaded 'not guilty'. In fact, the police gleaned most of their good tips from Maxine Carr, his girlfriend whom they managed to 'break' under interrogation. She turned Queen's evidence against him rather than go down with him.

IMO, the police have much more in the Ramsey case files than we would imagine. I would sincerely hope that Lou Smit isn't sharing his update on the information with a certain housewife whose raison d'etre seems to be to destroy the credibility of any evidence or witness which/who doesn't support Ramsey innocence.

I say let it all come out and let the chips fall were they may.

 

[Jayelles]

The facts are that the black Shurtape brand duct tape, which was manufactored in a short run in November 1996, has never been sourced. There was no matching black duct tape found on or in anything the police searched. I think the intruder brought that in with him.

I don't know of any newspaper report that matched the pubic hair on the blanket to Patsy Ramsey. Even Thomas acknowledges that the pubic hair has not been matched. I am not aware that the hair has been mtDNA tested. Perhaps you're thinking of ST's comment that the pubic hair had some consistencies with Melinda's hair. Smit has said the pubic (or body hair) has not been matched to anyone.

I believe Lin Wood disputed that the unidentified partial palmprint on the wine cellar door has been matched to Melinda (or anyone else) after Charlie Brennan's mid-2002 article. Even in the article Wood was quoted saying "...I would put no weight, whatsoever, on anonymous information coming out of the Boulder Police Department. Zero."

BPD had not indentified the print by the time Thomas resigned, and they certainly had access to compare Melinda during that time. Thomas thought the print might belong to some cop who wouldn't admit touching the door.
ST asked Patsy in interrogation about the palm print on the ransom note. We haven't heard much about it as evidence, so it may not be clear enough to match to anyone.

The document experts consulted by the BPD and the defense, and who were given first hand access to the note concluded that Patsy most likely did not write the note. I'm not the only one to dismiss "experts" like Wong. Both of Darnay Hoffman's first experts were denounced and rejected by Boulder. His second experts were dismissed by a federal judge. Of course, one of those experts denounced the other one.

As far as we've heard, the blood spots on the panties are what have been tested, meaning the blood itself. We have not heard that the fabric of the panties was tested. The way I understand it, blood would be swabbed from the panties and analysis for DNA done on that material. That would make the male DNA "mixed" with the blood.

I left out the partial boot impression made by a Hi Tech brand hiking boot. BPD have no source for that shoeprint. I believe that may very well belong to the killer.

There was also a beaver hair found stuck to the duct tape that covered JonBenét's mouth. It has never been sourced and no matching beaver hair was found in the house or cars. It may have been secondary transfer from the killer.

I don't know of any source to claim that Keenan released a "redacted" 911 tape.

Did you stop following the case for a while? You are quite misinformed in some of the later developments.

Lin Wood did NOT dispute the findings of the palmprint evidence - that has been sourced and quoted many times. "Lin Wood did not dispute...." ... URL

The evidence about the palmprint and the hair came about when police had a second look at them AFTER Smit and Thomas' resignation. Do a simple Google search for the article and do the maths. Smit resigned in 1998 and came back in 2003 - that means he missed out in 4/5 years of case developments and he hasn't spoken out since he came back to the case.

I think Smit is clever. He knows that sugar catches the most flies. I hope he writes a book some day.

 

[Toth]

If you tell me the earth is flat, I will not dispute it. That does not mean that the earth is flat however.

 

[Jayelles]

If you tell me the earth is flat, I will not dispute it. That does not mean that the earth is flat however.

I did not see this post before I made my other post on the other thread about the world being flat.

 

[Shylock]

If you tell me the earth is flat, I will not dispute it.

But if you read that the earth is flat over at the swamp, you'll be over here quoting it as fact with lightining speed.
We know all about your geology background, Toth.

 

[Jayelles]

If you tell me the earth is flat, I will not dispute it. That does not mean that the earth is flat however.

The difference is - I'm not telling you the world is flat. I know it isn't. However, if ******* or the Ramseys told you it was flat, would you believe them?

 

[Toth]

Ofcourse not. Even those who join the Flat Earth Society don't believe it. That does not mean they dispute it however.

 

[Shylock]

Even those who join the Flat Earth Society don't believe it. That does not mean they dispute it however.

So does this mean that those who join the ranks of the RST really don't believe in their innocense, they just don't want to dispute it?

 

[Jayelles]

So does this mean that those who join the ranks of the RST really don't believe in their innocense, they just don't want to dispute it?

I interpreted that the same way as you! Is Toth saying that he joined *******'s to be a member of a society that he did not really believe it?

 

[Toth]

If Lin Wood has insufficient facts from a credible authoritative source concerning the palm print he simply may not want to dispute the palm print; that does not mean that he accepts the validity of the statement, only that he does not wish to dispute it.

Most astronauts join the Flat Earth Society. That doesn't mean they believe it.

 

[twilight]

Here's a disturbing thought, maybe they do...astronauts, that is, believe the earth is flat?

 

[why_nutt]

Most astronauts join the Flat Earth Society. That doesn't mean they believe it.

Most astronauts do not join the Flat Earth Society. Their non-membership is itself a refutation of the FES belief system.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Jayelle, are you aware that in the Atlanta interviews Kane represented the fibers as identical? You and I know fiber comparison does not result in identical match. Kane apparently does not, or he was misrepresenting. I think it was the latter.

You refer , I believe, to Brennan's article in maintaining that Lin Wood does not refute the palmprint identification. I think LW has refuted the identification as being Melinda's since that article was published. And, as I pointed out, LW said in that same article he would put no stock in any anonymous source from the BPD, which refuted the palmprint identification without specifically naming saying so to Brennan.

 

[Maxi]

I have a question about fiber identification. Is it that they cannot ever really be identical, or is it that they can't be matched to a particular source because identical fibers could be used in many sources?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Actually, some fibers should be able to "compare" much more nearly than others. Synthetics can have different components as well as different dye lots. Cotton is pretty much just cotton but wool can be matched to breed of sheep.

Like DNA, which also is not said to absolutely, positively match but is given likelihood percentages that another person might have the same DNA makeup, fibers are only able to be compared and not absolutely matched.