Question

[why_nutt]

On the contrary, Carnes opinion was based on the evidence presented by Lin Wood and as revealed in depositions, as opposed to the baseless claims of DH that Patsy wrote the note.

Keenan publically agreed with Carnes, and Keenan certainly has access to even more than Carnes or Wood.

There you go, then. Burke was asleep in the car, there was no half hour of playing with him on John's part when the family arrived home, both John and Patsy have lied, as proven by Keenan's exposure to the evidence and her unequivocal agreement with every word Carnes wrote. In my opinion, we may be able to take this as evidence that Burke spilled those beans in his grand jury testimony. Having lied about Burke being asleep is not a criminal offense on its own, of course, but it would put a grand jury off of wanting to interview John and Patsy themselves, since they would not be certain of obtaining truthful testimony, and Keenan is of a forgiving-enough nature to let them have a pass (though that then would make me wonder whether she had some doubts and needed personal contact with the Ramseys, to let their charisma firm up her determination to see them as innocent, thus leading to that famous four-hour meeting sans Lin Wood).

You cannot have it both ways, though. If the DNA evidence presented by Lin Wood was valid and scientific enough to sway Carnes in her opinions, he had no need for these lab reports he has always screamed about wanting. And if he continues to want those lab reports, then the evidence he presented to Carnes was contaminated by being unscientific on scientific matters.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Sorry, but there is no statement that Burke did or didn't do anything after returning home. Both children were put to bed soon after returning home. That's it.

If you study human nature just a little, even just on these forums, you'll see that no one but NO one is exactly correct at all times. Memory isn't perfect, recall is flawed, and depending on either alone sometimes results in error.

Whether or not Burke fell asleep in the car, played with a model, or put on his pajamas backwards (I'm just making this one up, please do no jump on it as some factual account) has no revelance to the dissecting who killed JonBenét.

Nothing in the evidence in this case, from the DNA on the body to the handwriting in the note points to a family member. An unknown intruder is the most likely suspect to have killed her.

 

[Imon128]

John Ramsey has said what Burke did after they got home. He said Burke was wanting to play with/assemble some Christmas gift he'd been given and wasn't anxious to go to bed. John Ramsey has said that he helped Burke in order to speed up the time to get Burke on up to bed. John Ramsey has said that he helped Burke get ready for bed. So I guess something has been said about what Burke did after he got home, but maybe that's not what you meant?

 

[Shylock]

Nothing in the evidence in this case, from the DNA on the body to the handwriting in the note points to a family member.

You should get over to FFJ and check out the PDF file that compares Patsy's known exemplars to those letters in the ransom note. If you look closely at that file and then still don't know that Patsy wrote the note, you need a serious trip to the eye doctor.

Walk up to ANY person on the street, show them those examplars and ask, "Did the same person write these letters?" and their answer will always be "Yes".

The chance that an "unknown intruder" would break into someone's house and write a note with letters that match what the Mother of the house has previously written is an impossibility.

 

[Charlie]

Toth is correct.

Charlie, you didn't provide a source claiming that the DNA belongs to any Ramsey.

LP the whole point on me asking Toth's to post the source of his statement was so i could see it myself. i didnt know of a source, obviously thats why i asked toth for it.

 

[Shylock]

On the contrary, Carnes opinion was based on the evidence presented by Lin Wood

LP, you managed to forget the KEY word in your statement which would make it actually relate to the situation. Here, I'll add it for you:

"On the contrary, Carnes opinion was based on the UNCHALLENGED evidence presented by Lin Wood"

Note the difference? If a GOOD lawyer was representing Chris Wolfe he would have easily made Lin Wood and his bogus facts look like a bad screenplay. That's why anything Carnes wrote is totally meaningless to this case. Do you really think justice can be served when the case is presented by a fool?--Not even close!

Pay attention on this forum LP, there isn't a single Ramsey-did-it person here that would want Darnay Hoffman representing them on so much as a parking ticket. That should tell you a hell of a lot more than anything Carnes wrote.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

From Death of Innocence: This is John speaking:

"Meanwhile, I went downstairs to try to get Burke to come up to bed, but he was deeply involved in assembling the miniature parking garage he had received that morning. I could tell he wasn't going to go to bed until the project was finished, so I settled down on the floor beside him. Helping him complete what his mind was focused on was the best way to get us both in bed quickly At about 9:30 I led Burke updatirs and got him ready for bed, then tucked him in and turned out the light. "

Ned: Note that John remember WHAT he helped Burke assemble, and also knows what time he went to bed.

I just caught something, John describes to a T what he and Burke did that night, including SETTING THE ALARM. ON the following page, Patsy picks up the story and says... (Note never mentioning awaking to an alarm clock)

"I hear John truning on the water in his bathroom and realize that it is still dark. As we always do before departing for an early morning trip, John and I will get dressed before waking up the children. Just before we're ready to , we'll get the kids up. Sometimes we even load them in the car in their pj's so they can resume sleeping in the airplane. Slowly the normal routine for an early morning flight comes into focus. Take a shower, get dressed, get going. I swing out of bed and abruptly remember that my shower is still broken. Don't need one this morning, I think to myself. Just put my clothes on. And of course, my makeup................. (NOTE THAT THIS SUGGESTS THAT PATSY DECIDED SINCE HER SHOWER WAS BROKEN, NOT TO TAKE A SHOWER THAT MORNING, HAD IT NOT BEEN WHOULD ONE HOUR BE ENOUGH TIME FOR HER TO SHOWER, GET DRESSED, GET HER MAKEUP ONE, PACK AND GET CHILDREN READY AND STILL MAKE THEIR FLIGHT?)got to be at the airport by 6:30 or so............(NOTICE THE OR SO COMMENT, YET IF YOU READ ON THE PRIOR PAGE, JOHN COMMENTS THEY LEFT THE WHITE PARTY BECAUSE THEY HAD TO MAKE THEIR FLIGHT BY 6:30 BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BE IN MINNEAPOLIS BY 11:00 TO MEET MELINDA AND STEWART. IT WAS IMPAIRITIVE THAT THEY MAKE THEIR FLIGHT) I reach for my clothes and start dressing. Minutes later I hurry down the back staris from our bedroom to the second floor, where the children's derooms are located. (MINUTES LATER? HOW MANY MINUTES? WAS THAT ENOUGH TIME TO DRESS AND PUT ON MAKEUP).... I hurry down the spiral staircase to the bottom floor and stop. (NOTE BOTTOM FLOOR). What's this? I wonder, I turn around to look at three pieces of paper on a step near the bottom. (CLEARLY PATSY TELLS US HERE THAT SHE REACHED THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS AND THEN TURNS AROUND TO SEE THE THREE PIECES OF PAPER ON SECOND TO BOTTOM STAIR. NOW SINCE I HAD A SPIRAL STAIRCASE IN OUR LAST HOME, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S VERY NARROW AND I DON'T THINK AT 5:30 IN THE MORNING EVEN I WOULD BE ABLE TO MISS A STEP) TO ME THIS STATEMENT COMPLETELY POINTS OUT THAT PATSY IS LYING.

 

[Toth]

I would agree that Darnay Hoffman played no role in shaping anyone's opinion.
I think it should be remembered that ADA-Keenan, prior to becoming DA and prior to having had any contact with Lin Wood thought the BPD should be looking more diligently for an intruder in the case and less at the parents.

 

[Shylock]

I think it should be remembered that ADA-Keenan, prior to becoming DA and prior to having had any contact with Lin Wood thought the BPD should be looking more diligently for an intruder in the case and less at the parents.

More specifically Toth, Keenan thought Santa Bill was good for it. That and the fact that the dipchit released two different copies of the 911 tape should tell ya exactly what kind of a bimbo you're using for a reference.
The only good thing you can say about Keenan is she's got Limp Woody bluffed into thinking there really is a "new" investigation so he won't be filing any law suits in Boulder....hehe.

 

[Cherokee]

From Death of Innocence: ... ON the following page, Patsy picks up the story and says ... "I hear John truning on the water in his bathroom and realize that it is still dark .... Slowly the normal routine for an early morning flight comes into focus. Take a shower, get dressed, get going. I swing out of bed and abruptly remember that my shower is still broken. Don't need one this morning, I think to myself. Just put my clothes on. And of course, my makeup. I reach for my clothes and start dressing."

How convenient. Patsy's shower is broken. And there is no other shower/bathtub in the whole darn house that Patsy can use? Patsy, the image conscious beauty queen, would rather present her stinky self in her day-old clothes to Melinda and her fiance than find some water in which to wash?

It just galls me to read this. Patsy is SO CAREFUL to explain why she was in the same clothes from the day before, and full makeup, when the police arrived Dec. 26th. She KNOWS it looks suspicious, and she KNOWS people have pointed it out numerous times, so she goes into great detail to try to explain.

"Just put my clothes. And of course, my makeup."

And of course, her makeup. Nothing suspicious there. That explains it. Just had to add that little tidbit. Couldn't just give the plain facts but had to embellish a little. Just couldn't shut up but had to cover ALL the bases. Just a little more here and a little more there. Have to keep going and keep talking and keep denying and not remembering ... and gee, this reminds me of something ... what is it? Oh yeah ... a three page, overly embellished and extraneous ransom note.



IMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Patsy being dressed and wearing makeup at 6 a.m. was initially a BIG question.

It was discussed and questioned ad nauseum.

Of course PR addressed it in their book.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

They sure did LP. Patsy points out very carefully that it wasn't until she woke that she remembered her shower was broken. Don't know about many of you, but if thats the case in our house, my wife would just jump in with me. -in fact that's happened without any showers being broke :dance:

What the book details is how Patsy waked down that spiral staircase and OVER the 3 pages of note laid out on the second to last step, then having to turn around to wonder what it was. Is her house that untidy that one has to walk over things in order to get where they are going? They directly contridict themselves when leaving the Whites house by explaining how important it was for them to leave early because they HAD to leave at 6:30 am the next morning in order to make it to Minneapolis by 11:00. Yet on the very next page, Patsy says they had to leave by 6:30 OR SO, LOL, goes into great detail of why she didn't shower. I find it hard to believe, if not impossible that a woman of Patsy's stature could awaken, have time to shower, put on makeup, do her hair, wake and get ready both of her children, while still having to pack for a cross country trip all within 1 hour. And to top it off, she an acrobat when desending her sprial staircase at 5:30 in the morning. Yeah right

 

[Imon128]

Right. And if Patsy's shower had been broken for awhile, where was she accoustomed to cleaning/bathing herself? How long had it been since Patsy bathed? Did she shower/bathe prior to going to the Whites or to Pasta Jay's restaurant on Christmas Eve?

We know she didn't clean up the kids prior to the trip, nor had any intentions of such, but was John the only Ramsey household member who needed to bathe that day (or how ever many previous days)?

 

[tipper]

Right. And if Patsy's shower had been broken for awhile, where was she accoustomed to cleaning/bathing herself? How long had it been since Patsy bathed? Did she shower/bathe prior to going to the Whites or to Pasta Jay's restaurant on Christmas Eve?

We know she didn't clean up the kids prior to the trip, nor had any intentions of such, but was John the only Ramsey household member who needed to bathe that day (or how ever many previous days)?

I would guess she took a shower as part of her hair dyeing on the 25th.

 

[Imon128]

I would guess she took a shower as part of her hair dyeing on the 25th.

That's a possibility. However, her shower was broken so where did she take that shower? If she took a shower elsewhere for that task, why not do the same that fateful morning? It's not that Patsy says she didn't shower due to time, she said her shower was broken.

Also, one can dye one's hair without it, too.

 

[tipper]

That's a possibility. However, her shower was broken so where did she take that shower? If she took a shower elsewhere for that task, why not do the same that fateful morning? It's not that Patsy says she didn't shower due to time, she said her shower was broken.

Also, one can dye one's hair without it, too.

I don't think it matters where she took her previous shower. If I had to guess I'd bet she used John's shower. But I don't see anything odd about her not showering that morning. How many showers in a 24 hour period does she need? Assuming she's not out digging ditches or loading hay.

 

[Imon128]

I don't think it matters where she took her previous shower. If I had to guess I'd bet she used John's shower. But I don't see anything odd about her not showering that morning. How many showers in a 24 hour period does she need? Assuming she's not out digging ditches or loading hay.

It matters to me, where she might have showered previously (and how long it had been since she'd showered) for the reasons I stated. If I wasn't clear, I'll try to make it more clear (or more muddier, LOL). She claims she didn't shower that morning only because her shower was broken. If she had showered elsewhere, PRIOR TO THAT MORNING, that makes that reason faulty, JMO. And no, she didn't HAVE to shower that day or any day, for that matter. However, it's good hygiene and moreover, she wanted to impress Melinda's boyfriend, who would be sharing close quarters with her in a small plane. Perhaps her reason was to save face for her lack of shower, or it could be for a reason connected to JB's death.

 

[Charlie]

I'll add 2 more official sources that say the male DNA found on JonBenét is not Ramsey: Federal Judge Julie Carnes and current Boulder County District Attorney Mary Keenan.

Ok so finally i got some kind of a source that states that the DNA found in JonBenet's panties was not Ramsey.

Basically i was thinking that if a relaible source had said its not NOT RAMSEY DNA do u think they might have just said its not from the Ramsey family DNA Line. As Patsy is only a Ramsey through Marriage. Maybe they are being very sly. Remember its just a thought.

I Hope that makes sense.

 

[Shylock]

"Just put my clothes. And of course, my makeup."
And of course, her makeup. Nothing suspicious there.

Remember the photo of Christmas morning, with Patsy sitting there watching the kids openning their presents? Notice how Patsy didn't have any makup on in that photo.
So on a morning that she knows photos are going to be taken she doesn't take the time to "of course" put her makeup on--but on a morning when she doesn't have to even think about how she looks until after coffee, breakfast, whatever...she gets all dolled up.

That makes no sense at all.

 

[BlueCrab]

If the Ramseys planned for and got up at 5:30 A.M. like they claim, and had to be at the airport by 6:30, it doesn't make any sense because they would NEVER had made it in time. The ride to the Jeffco airport alone takes 20 minutes.

Common sense tells us the Ramseys got up much earlier that morning than they claim. My guess is they planned for and got up around 4:00 A.M., walked into a horror scene downstairs, children were involved, and the coverup was born before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 A.M.

JMO