Random Thoughts and Discussion Ideas#6 About the Case

[Brini]

Just an old random thought here--Amy says that Tony showed her or told her that he got a text from Casey on July 16th saying "if they never find her guess who goes to jail for eternity". How did that text get sent? The phone was left at Tony's and LE picked it up around 11:00 pm on the 15th. From that point on that phone was pretty much monitored by the police--Jesse said he called it on the morning of the 16th and a policeman answered. And Casey had LE around her all the time after they came to the house. I just don't quite get that one---or even WHY she would send that message to Tony.

And along the same line--the garbage was from Tony's also. I'm wondering if there's any chance the murder could have taken place at his apartment? Or did she have some male help in the disposal?
As usual, just exercising the brain lol.

Not likely. KC wasn't allowed to be there, alone. And, all the guys in the apartment cooperated with LE.

She wouldn't need any help to dispose of a two-year old.

 

[Brini]

Yes, ITA, and she created that little story on the spur of the moment, as soon as the questions LEOs were asking her in the interview went south and she began to see that they were suspicious not only that Caylee had been kidnapped but that she even might still be alive. It came right around the time she began to hear overtures that perhaps something had happened that she might be scared to admit, and that she had perhaps fabricated the kidnapping to cover up the fact she knew something worse had happened to Caylee. KC had to insert that story to not only reinforce her "kidnapping" story but to provide some kind of "proof" to LE that Caylee had not already expired.

And, even after THAT idiotic action, she told LE she had received a call from Caylee-- talking about her shoes and her book. How is JB gonna explain THAT?

Some people are too stupid to be criminals.

If KC was a bank robber, she'd leave her driver's license at the bank she'd just robbed.

 

[CuriousTwo]

There have been so many opinions on why this particular case has received much more press and interest than all the other similar cases. IMO, it has nothing to do with the appearance of those involved as some have mentioned.

There are many adorable children who have gone missing who have attractive parents. To me, what makes this case different is the actions and behavior of the family.

The average person can relate to the reaction of most of the families because we could envision ourselves reacting that same way - the shock, immobilizing fear, desperation to get the child back at any cost, heart-wrenching emotional pleas via the media, the extended family members all pulling together to support the family, etc.

What we can't relate to is the misstruths/misstatements, deceit, contradictions, emotional disconnect and arrogance displayed by this family who is so isolated and without close friends/family that they have to turn totally to strangers for support during such a traumatic situation. I think this is what makes this case different and so unfortunate.

 

[coco puff]

I keep wondering about the video of her in jail finding out about the discovery of the body. Of course we will never see it because it is to imflamatory. WTH? Now I know she has not acted in anyway consistant with being a mother of a kidnapped/dead child but what on earth could she have done to inflame the viewers? You can bet if she cried and screamed for her dead child, we'd be seeing it.

 

[Intermezzo]

While, I personally believe Casey is likely guilty, I do think it's important to separate out information that is not germaine to guilt from that which is. Specifically, I want to addresss Casey's partying/hot body contest behavior/boyfriends. I do not believe that these activities bear any relation to her guilt or innocence. As evidence of this, I submit this link to a case in which a young woman was wrongly convicted of murdering her husband in a great part due to her partying behavior in the wake of his death and also due to her inquiries regarding insurance and money. Cindy Sommers actually participated in a thong competition at a nightclub. She also slept with quite a number of men shortly after her husband's death who were all brought forth in the trial.

The prosecusion held that Cindys Sommers' husband had been poisoned by her with arsenic and showed test results depicting arsenic in his kidneys and liver. A defense expert testified that there should have been arsenic all over the husband's body, not just in the liver or kidneys as the prosecutions tests revealed and the fact that there was no evidence to indicate that Cindy Sommers had ever bought arsenic or been in contact with it and there was no one who knew her to have an unhappy marriage or any complaints about her husband.

I think the article below is very informative and shows how this kind of information can give a false impression about the truth of a situation in court.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/25/945575.aspx

The conviction was reversed after if was discovered that the original prosecutory lab tests were completely incorrect and corrupted and on re-test that none of the samples taken from the husbands body contained any traces of arsenic whatsoever.

I suspect that the defense will successfully avoid the boyfriend/hot body contest/partying information from being presented at Casey's trial because Andrea Lyon won't allow that to be entered into evidence. Without all of that, we are left with:
Lab tests of trunk of car (still questionable after Linda Baden gets done with them)
Casey's squirrel info to AH and other text messages
Caylee's body and autopsy and related evidence
Casey's lies
Video of Casey at Blockbuster with TL on the evening of the day Caylee supposedly died looking fine.
TL's testimony about Casey's nightmares.
Internet searches on the Anthony home computer - no proof they were done by Casey
Financial crimes

What else is left in the way of evidence for the trial and does it really prove Casey is guilty?

BBM
I have wondered IF the SA uses that information, at which point will it be introduced? Such as, if Casey is found guilty will the SA bring it up during the DP/Sentencing Phase?

 

[Intermezzo]

I also think she wasn't comfortable out of her small activity zone.
She didn't even take short trips, or go out of town, for the day.

It was the A's home, the bf du jour's home, the clubs and the Target. That's it.

BBM
I agree Brini

 

[MissJames]

BBM
I have wondered IF the SA uses that information, at which point will it be introduced? Such as, if Casey is found guilty will the SA bring it up during the DP/Sentencing Phase?

I believe it will come in at the trial to show a lack of concern for her missing /deceased child.It should definitely be used during the DP phase.

 

[Jolynna]

While, I personally believe Casey is likely guilty, I do think it's important to separate out information that is not germaine to guilt from that which is. Specifically, I want to addresss Casey's partying/hot body contest behavior/boyfriends. I do not believe that these activities bear any relation to her guilt or innocence. As evidence of this, I submit this link to a case in which a young woman was wrongly convicted of murdering her husband in a great part due to her partying behavior in the wake of his death and also due to her inquiries regarding insurance and money. Cindy Sommers actually participated in a thong competition at a nightclub. She also slept with quite a number of men shortly after her husband's death who were all brought forth in the trial.

The prosecusion held that Cindys Sommers' husband had been poisoned by her with arsenic and showed test results depicting arsenic in his kidneys and liver. A defense expert testified that there should have been arsenic all over the husband's body, not just in the liver or kidneys as the prosecutions tests revealed and the fact that there was no evidence to indicate that Cindy Sommers had ever bought arsenic or been in contact with it and there was no one who knew her to have an unhappy marriage or any complaints about her husband.

I think the article below is very informative and shows how this kind of information can give a false impression about the truth of a situation in court.

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/25/945575.aspx

The conviction was reversed after if was discovered that the original prosecutory lab tests were completely incorrect and corrupted and on re-test that none of the samples taken from the husbands body contained any traces of arsenic whatsoever.

I suspect that the defense will successfully avoid the boyfriend/hot body contest/partying information from being presented at Casey's trial because Andrea Lyon won't allow that to be entered into evidence. Without all of that, we are left with:

Lab tests of trunk of car (still questionable after Linda Baden gets done with them)
Casey's squirrel info to AH and other text messages
Caylee's body and autopsy and related evidence
Casey's lies
Video of Casey at Blockbuster with TL on the evening of the day Caylee supposedly died looking fine.
TL's testimony about Casey's nightmares.
Internet searches on the Anthony home computer - no proof they were done by Casey
Financial crimes

What else is left in the way of evidence for the trial and does it really prove Casey is guilty?

There's more than enough compelling evidence to establish KC's guilt without showing a single picture of KC partying.

However, KC drug some of the after June 16 pictures in when she said she went to bars to search for Caylee. The pictures show exactly how Casey went about her "hunt" for Caylee.

IMO, the pictures of KC with the toilet or eating burritos etc. are old and have nothing to do with the case.

IMO

 

[Intermezzo]

She doesn't know how to plan.

She had a very limited area of activity. The As house, to the bf's place, to the clubs.

Her PING maps were very enlightening re: this.

She really couldn't sit down and plan out how to get the money, change her appearance, where to go, and how to get a job that would not attract attention.

So.. she didn't.

Exactly :clap:

 

[Intermezzo]

Just an old random thought here--Amy says that Tony showed her or told her that he got a text from Casey on July 16th saying "if they never find her guess who goes to jail for eternity". How did that text get sent? The phone was left at Tony's and LE picked it up around 11:00 pm on the 15th. From that point on that phone was pretty much monitored by the police--Jesse said he called it on the morning of the 16th and a policeman answered. And Casey had LE around her all the time after they came to the house. I just don't quite get that one---or even WHY she would send that message to Tony.

And along the same line--the garbage was from Tony's also. I'm wondering if there's any chance the murder could have taken place at his apartment? Or did she have some male help in the disposal?
As usual, just exercising the brain lol.

BBM
I thought it was her brother Lee that picked up the cell phone when he went to TL's to retrieve Casey's belongings(including the laptop) that night around that time?
Casey also sent out a mass text message telling all that Caylee had been kidnapped.
When LE and Casey were sitting in the conference room at Universal I thought LE spoke to Casey about her giving them her cell phone so they can download information from it.

 

[Balthazar]

Honey, you are leaving out a lot of great evidence.

I think the total sum of the parts will MORE than convince any jury with two firing neurons, or more.

Brini, the point of my post was for everyone to point out what evidence beyond the partying and sleeping around might lead to conviction. Some people have pointed out some important evidence such as:

Not calling police regarding missing daughter
Parents, cadaver dog, homocide detective AND tests saying decomp odor in trunk

Anyway, I was hoping we could put together a complete list of stuff not related to partying/behavior that would demonstrate guilt. Then I wanted to see how the defense might refute it. We already know the defense says there is NO EVIDENCE against Casey. What if, like the in the Sommers' case, this turns out to be true and the decomp odor was not human decomp but is proven to be something else? Remember the first two sets of forensics on the odor contradicted each other, so I'm wondering what Henry Lee's tests might have shown the defense. How will this affect this case in court if Casey's behavior is left out of the mix?

 

[RR0004]

Brini, the point of my post was for everyone to point out what evidence beyond the partying and sleeping around might lead to conviction. Some people have pointed out some important evidence such as:

Not calling police regarding missing daughter
Parents, cadaver dog, homocide detective AND tests saying decomp odor in trunk

Anyway, I was hoping we could put together a complete list of stuff not related to partying/behavior that would demonstrate guilt. Then I wanted to see how the defense might refute it. We already know the defense says there is NO EVIDENCE against Casey. What if, like the in the Sommers' case, this turns out to be true and the decomp odor was not human decomp but is proven to be something else? Remember the first two sets of forensics on the odor contradicted each other, so I'm wondering what Henry Lee's tests might have shown the defense. How will this affect this case in court if Casey's behavior is left out of the mix?

I don't remember the tests being a contradiction....though as a lay person they're difficult to wrap my brain around. Let's add the hair if it hasn't already been done.

 

[Hollys G-mom]

The only time I've ever known anyone to lime a yard was to aid in the decompositon of dog pooh(i do not know how that works, exactly, just that they did it). Maybe their yard was filled with pooh?

People here in Northern Florida lime thier yards for fertilizer reasons, to help kill off flea & tick populations (if they have inside pets, especially multiples, this is a good idea), to make the soil more alkaline and less acidic for growing grass or different plants.

 

[RR0004]

BBM
I thought it was her brother Lee that picked up the cell phone when he went to TL's to retrieve Casey's belongings(including the laptop) that night around that time?
Casey also sent out a mass text message telling all that Caylee had been kidnapped.
When LE and Casey were sitting in the conference room at Universal I thought LE spoke to Casey about her giving them her cell phone so they can download information from it.

Supposedly she was also taking them to Universal to find the elusive phone...because she had left it at work. Not true.

 

[MissJames]

The defense would be foolish to bring Dr. Lee or his report into the trial.The SA will discredit him.
http://crime.about.com/b/2007/05/25/judge-dr-henry-lee-hid-evidence.htm
I think he was brought in to try and unnerve the SA and LE,but it fell short.
In all liklihood he found the same evidence of human decomp,told JB that's what it was in the trunk and that's the end of his role with the defense. He hopefully is an advisor,not an expert witness.

 

[Hollys G-mom]

S&BBM.

The fact that the latest doc dump shows that the bags Caylee's body were in matched two from the Anthony home. One was in a cooler stacked up somewhere in the garage and the second was one that Cindy gave LE with Casey's clothes (from the car). :woohoo:

BBM: They are simular to, or look very much like, but they can not prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they came from the Anthony home. Period!

 

[metalcrystal]

BBM
I agree Brini

Me too. She was small town loser with the emotional development of a pre teen. The only reason she was able to get by as long as she did was because her parents and friends let her get away with it. If she had tried to pull these cons and rip-offs on strangers in the big city, she would have been dead or in jail within a week.

 

[travelgal]

It couldn't have been ... remember Casey's friend telling the story of how they went for a walk down the street and CA's dog pooped in a neighbor's lawn and Casey denied it and wouldn't pick it up even though she was holding the leashed dog? LOL!

Regarding the lime - we have two large dogs and just pick up their droppings in our back lawn regularly. Have never had a need to apply anything to mask an odor because there isn't any. With their two tiny pups there can't be much poop volume and I can't see any need for them to use lime to mask pup poop odor - especially in the front lawn.

KC lying to the neighbor while she is standing right there with dog is a good example of sociopathic behavior on a very mild level. I am reading a great book The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout. It is a great read and an easy to understand book for laymen. I have been learning so much from the WS folks (Brini, et al) that have lots of experience with sociopaths and then this book gives scenarios of behaviors. Anyone that can begin with the mild obvious lies can easily advance to bigger lies (working at Universal) to creating an imaginary nanny for her daughter that she just murdered.

I wonder if KC had been confronted by the clerk at Target while forging Amy's check if she would have denied that, too?

 

[Hollys G-mom]

You know with all the evidence that is stack up against KC and whether the pics of her do or do not come in as evidence. It doesn't matter. I think that the juriors will be using a lot of common sense in this case when they finally get to decide the case.

Who with all the players in this case would murder a sweet adorable just under 3 year old toddler like Caylee. There is no one that would have a motive. Can you think of any? If KC and company think so, why don't they point the finger now instead of taking this all the way to trial and wasting everyones' time and money? It is just logical.

I think of all the murders that are in the news right now...there must be a lot of people sitting in jail that are innocent because they are all deyning it.

I can't think of a motive anyone would have had for killing little Caylee, not even Casey. Not a real motive, in the sense of the word.

I've recently been doing some studying on wrongly convicted people and the convictions or near convictions that were over turned. One happened because there was an LE who had a conscious and didn't just want to pin a crime on the most likely available person. He found evidence about the person in question that exonerated him. Instead of keeping quiet to make a pretty case, he fought for the man and won. An innocent man was able to go home to his family after a year in jail because of it. This happened in Davie Florida circa 1994. That's just one case! There are many others that looked "open & shut" but weren't. Another case involved a military man whom seemed the perfect suspect of who killed his wife & 3 kids. Turned out later to be a copy cat killing. A teenaged girl had fallen in love with a convicted criminal who really had killed his wife & kids, but convinced the teenager to kill this other family so that LE would let him go because the "crimminal" was still on the loose. Almost worked too!
If you were one of the people who was picked for the jury, that last thing anyone would want to hear is that you think KC is guilty because you didn't like the way she wore her shirt!!!

 

[RR0004]

BBM: They are simular to, or look very much like, but they can not prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they came from the Anthony home. Period!

Thank goodness it's still reasonable to conclude that in all likelihood this is not a mere coincidence.