RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[bettybaby00]

Me and my better half have been actually attempting to try to write the Ransom note using the same type of pad and pen.

the house. It was close to a convenient writing surface.

4. It takes time to get used to writing a letter with a sharpie. First couple of examples were not legible but after some practice I got better at it. Both my wife and I are used to writing with a pen or a pencil. But the thicker point of the sharpie really takes time to get used to. Whoever wrote the ransom note had to have had experience writing long notes with a sharpie and pad.[/QUOTE]

BBM. You know this is a very good point that I had never thought of before. I hate writing with Sharpies. I have one in my garage, office, kitchen, etc. but I only really use them for labeling. Freezing meat in smaller portions, or boxing up something and storing it in the garage. I would never write a letter or note with a Sharpie.

However, it appears that was the standard writing implement for Patsy. Excellent point that I have never seen made before.

What's interesting about the point you highlighted (bolded) is it's gotta be the most difficult from an analysis standpoint. Between trying to examine the pressure used, and all that bleeding must have made it near impossible!

I've never noticed it mentioned whether or not all the exemplars were done with a sharpie as well?

I don't like using them either....too messy, whatever I'm trying to write always ends up messy, and I always get it on my hands. I doubt either of the Rs hands were ever checked, much in the same way no one ever asked the Rs to provide their clothes when police were at the scene. Funny how Arndt was required to give her clothes, but the Rs weren't asked. Instead, they had to be provided, and if IRRC it took a long time...a very long time.
:banghead:

 

[lawstudent]

Those are good conclusions. My sharpie usage has gotten a lot better, but if I try to write neatly, I always smear it. Could explain the multiple drafts? I don't know - the whole thing is so strange to me. I'm straddling threads here but the ransom note is just so weird. I don't believe it is a real ransom note, so that makes more sense, but just the way it was written is bizarre. I can see why people lean towards Patsy doing it, or Patsy with input from John, and I can see why some people get a different vibe. The word choice in it always jumps out to me, but I can't pinpoint what I read into it exactly. The immediate things that stand out to me are that it is fake, the author isn't extremely bright but is educated, and the author seems to have an imagination but not a great grasp of reality. I also get the sense the author is an older person (at least in their 30s) and not a native English speaker, which throws me. The word choice and some other things seem like what a fluent but non-native English speaker would write, but it also goes with what a young person might write when trying to be fancy. I get so confused. The multiple drafts thing is the weirdest to me.

 

[DeeDee249]

I had read that one of the things impeding an even more positive identification of Patsy as the RN author was the fact that a Sharpie doesn't have as defined edges when used as a writing implement as a pen or pencil- there is always a little "bleeding" or fuzziness on the edges of the penstroke. Even though an identical Sharpie was used for the handwriting samples, it would vary a little more than would be the case with a different kind of ink.The felt tip wears down a little bit with every use and that makes a difference, though very slight, in the penstrokes. I know the Sharpie used for the RN was taken into custody (where it presumably still is) but I suppose even if the exact same one was used there might still be variations because of the nature of the felt tip.
I know people see the same things differently, but when I see Patsy's exemplars next to the RN, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind at all that she wrote that note. Those figure-8 "Q"s do it every time for me.

 

[bettybaby00]

I'm watching "the hunt" a new show hosted by John Walsh

He starts out by saying how when he left one day for work in 1981, he kissed his young son good bye and never saw him again.

He goes on to say, "I'm the parent of a murdered child. I will always be the parent of a murder child, and I will always be heartbroken, and I will always be outraged.

Where was the Ramsey outrage? That's a huge sticking point for me.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm watching "the hunt" a new show hosted by John Walsh

He starts out by saying how when he left one day for work in 1981, he kissed his young son good bye and never saw him again.

He goes on to say, "I'm the parent of a murdered child. I will always be the parent of a murder child, and I will always be heartbroken, and I will always be outraged.

Where was the Ramsey outrage? That's a huge sticking point for me.

The only outrage from them was against LE for having the nerve to suspect "people like them".

 

[chlban]

So, I have to say again, kudos to the Bunk for a brilliant experiment with the Sharpie. It now seems amazing that we have not discussed this before, because it is incredibly damning IMO.

We are to believe that the "Intruder" not only broke into the house without leaving a trace of having done so, on Christmas Day when his abscence would almost certainly be noted, he then decided to write the War and Peace of Ransom Notes on the Ramsey's notepad using an instrument that few of us would use for anything other than labeling, and many wouldn't even use for that.

I would never, ever attempt to write a letter, note or any kind of correspondance with a Sharpie They run and smudge like crazy. Yet, based on the number of them in the house, Patsy routinely used them. What are the odds that the mystery "intruder" shares Patsy's prefernce for Sharpies?

I would guess the odds are about the same as they are that there ever was a mysterious intruder. None.

 

[THE BUNK]

So, I have to say again, kudos to the Bunk for a brilliant experiment with the Sharpie. It now seems amazing that we have not discussed this before, because it is incredibly damning IMO.

We are to believe that the "Intruder" not only broke into the house without leaving a trace of having done so, on Christmas Day when his abscence would almost certainly be noted, he then decided to write the War and Peace of Ransom Notes on the Ramsey's notepad using an instrument that few of us would use for anything other than labeling, and many wouldn't even use for that.

I would never, ever attempt to write a letter, note or any kind of correspondance with a Sharpie They run and smudge like crazy. Yet, based on the number of them in the house, Patsy routinely used them. What are the odds that the mystery "intruder" shares Patsy's prefernce for Sharpies?

I would guess the odds are about the same as they are that there ever was a mysterious intruder. None.

Thanks. All the credit goes to my wife though. She was the one who suggested trying it.

Some other thoughts we had in this experiment:

1. I can understand why Patsy would use the sharpie, even though it could connect to her. She probably thought that by using a marker, she could hide her handwriting better than if she used a regular pen or a pencil. Most people don't know that your handwriting can still be traced even if you attempt to hide it. Even the Zodiac Killer attempted to hide his handwriting, but even the handwriting experts said they would be able to match his handwriting if they found an example. This is why they had no problems writing the letter with their own material. They figured that the police would never be able to match Patsy's handwriting to the faked handwriting on the Ransom note.

2. When a couple attempts to write a letter, it's customary to have the wife write it. Whether it be thank you notes, letters to a loved one, christmas cards...it's my wife that writes them! Mostly because like the majority of men, my handwriting is horrendous. I could easily see John simply tasking Patsy with writing the Ransom note, because that's always what she did when they needed to write something. Also I think John thought Patsy could fake her handwriting better than he could.


3. In one line, the writer adds not via a carat to "the two gentleman do...(not) like you" Why would someone who's supposed to hate John Ramsey so much make such an obvious error? It's not the type of error you would make written fast or transposing words. It's almost like the writer had a Freudian slip and let loose his real feelings about John Ramsey. That the writer doesn't hate him...but actually loves him. Add that to the "we respect your business" and "grow a brain" line...this writer does not seem to hate John Ramsey that much to warrant killing his daughter out of revenge.


4. Both my wife and I asked this question to each other: "Why write such a bad ransom note?". This4 is especially puzzling from the IDI perspective, since this guy had so much time to write as many as he wanted. While time was taken in preparing the note, it seems there was no time to write a final draft. It made us wonder whether this note was ever proofread? Was it possible that John first saw the note while Patsy was making the 911 call? Perhaps that is what forced John to have to do some last minute improvising in relation to JonBenet's body.

5. One of the reasons why this note was probably so bad, was that it was dictated by one person and "translated" by another. Sometimes in dictation, one person expresses his ideas on what he wants to say and then leaves the writer the leeway to write in more "official" language. Kind of like how a language translator uses discretion sometimes to express the subject in a more appropriate way. I think this is how the Ransom note was composed. One person gave an idea of a ransom note that was probably more suitable, but the writer translated it into language that they themselves would use. From the IDI perspective, John had a "rougher" ransom note in mind, but Patsy translated it just like she would an office memo. It's like if the Rapper 50 cent wrote a song for Clay Aiken to sing. The style would be lost in translation. What you would get would be a song that made no sense in terms of tone and composition. That tonal shift is what makes the Ransom note so bizarre.

 

[questfortrue]

Thanks. All the credit goes to my wife though. She was the one who suggested trying it.

Some other thoughts we had in this experiment:

1. I can understand why Patsy would use the sharpie, even though it could connect to her. She probably thought that by using a marker, she could hide her handwriting better than if she used a regular pen or a pencil. Most people don't know that your handwriting can still be traced even if you attempt to hide it. Even the Zodiac Killer attempted to hide his handwriting, but even the handwriting experts said they would be able to match his handwriting if they found an example. This is why they had no problems writing the letter with their own material. They figured that the police would never be able to match Patsy's handwriting to the faked handwriting on the Ransom note.

2. When a couple attempts to write a letter, it's customary to have the wife write it. Whether it be thank you notes, letters to a loved one, christmas cards...it's my wife that writes them! Mostly because like the majority of men, my handwriting is horrendous. I could easily see John simply tasking Patsy with writing the Ransom note, because that's always what she did when they needed to write something. Also I think John thought Patsy could fake her handwriting better than he could.


3. In one line, the writer adds not via a carat to "the two gentleman do...(not) like you" Why would someone who's supposed to hate John Ramsey so much make such an obvious error? It's not the type of error you would make written fast or transposing words. It's almost like the writer had a Freudian slip and let loose his real feelings about John Ramsey. That the writer doesn't hate him...but actually loves him. Add that to the "we respect your business" and "grow a brain" line...this writer does not seem to hate John Ramsey that much to warrant killing his daughter out of revenge.


4. Both my wife and I asked this question to each other: "Why write such a bad ransom note?". This4 is especially puzzling from the IDI perspective, since this guy had so much time to write as many as he wanted. While time was taken in preparing the note, it seems there was no time to write a final draft. It made us wonder whether this note was ever proofread? Was it possible that John first saw the note while Patsy was making the 911 call? Perhaps that is what forced John to have to do some last minute improvising in relation to JonBenet's body.

5. One of the reasons why this note was probably so bad, was that it was dictated by one person and "translated" by another. Sometimes in dictation, one person expresses his ideas on what he wants to say and then leaves the writer the leeway to write in more "official" language. Kind of like how a language translator uses discretion sometimes to express the subject in a more appropriate way. I think this is how the Ransom note was composed. One person gave an idea of a ransom note that was probably more suitable, but the writer translated it into language that they themselves would use. From the IDI perspective, John had a "rougher" ransom note in mind, but Patsy translated it just like she would an office memo. It's like if the Rapper 50 cent wrote a song for Clay Aiken to sing. The style would be lost in translation. What you would get would be a song that made no sense in terms of tone and composition. That tonal shift is what makes the Ransom note so bizarre.

2) Plus, JR was an executive who would have been very comfortable dictating and giving PR some ideas from lines in movies about what should be in the note. Dictating is what he did with his secretary.

3) I’d also suggest that the “Freudian” slip you referred to might have been more complex than she really does love him. I think the two of them had pretty intense communication that late night/early morning. It could have gone something like this:

“She’s unconscious, but she may still be alive! Call an ambulance! But if we call an ambulance they may arrest me or they may take BR away and put him in a foster home. Let’s take a minute to think this through. We could stage a kidnapping. I can remove her from the home in the morning while you keep BR occupied, return as though I just had a quick errand. You can’t take her out. Listen, we’re going to do this my way and save our family. Do you understand me? You write a ransom note while I clean the crime scene. I know how to take care of all the details here. Address it to Mr. and Mrs. R, put blah, blah, blah in the note”. Wash her up while I clean up the area where this happened. And get me a paint brush, some duct tape, etc. After she’s cleaned up, I’ll do the rest to stage this.”

^^^ only my speculation here. I don’t know who did what or who said what.

If they were doing this staging together, I don’t believe they agreed on all details. Just like the RN, which is confusing and way too long, the staging of the two of them created a perplexing crime scene. A child with a garrote, yet wrapped tenderly in a papoose-style?

4) But if the RN was drafted together, which is what I think, I’d agree that it’s likely JR never had opportunity to proofread it.

JMHO

 

[elannia]

I am new on here I just started following the ramsey case a few months ago when I saw PMPT on tv. I cannot stop thinking about this case and have been following on here for awhile now. Wasnt sure where to reply but I honestly think it was the parents. I have read books over and over again and stuff doesnt add up. I think it all began on the 23 during the ramseys party

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am new on here I just started following the ramsey case a few months ago when I saw PMPT on tv. I cannot stop thinking about this case and have been following on here for awhile now. Wasnt sure where to reply but I honestly think it was the parents. I have read books over and over again and stuff doesnt add up. I think it all began on the 23 during the ramseys party

Welcome to Websleuths!!!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

Welcome! Looking forward to your thoughts

 

[elannia]

Thanks everyone

 

[THE BUNK]

I am new on here I just started following the ramsey case a few months ago when I saw PMPT on tv. I cannot stop thinking about this case and have been following on here for awhile now. Wasnt sure where to reply but I honestly think it was the parents. I have read books over and over again and stuff doesnt add up. I think it all began on the 23 during the ramseys party

Bienvenue.

 

[ukrberserker23]

Not really sure where to categorize this post. I was Googling Satanic cults in Boulder, CO, and got this hit. On a site called Topix, under Colorado Cults and Pedophile Groups. They have a list of groups on the page.
Brotherhood of the White Temple
Children of God with Zack Prendergast
Tony Llamas Group
Fat Cats Pedophile Group in Denver
Illuminati/Monarch program
NK Family Pedophile Group with connections to the White family

 

[questfortrue]

I am new on here I just started following the ramsey case a few months ago when I saw PMPT on tv. I cannot stop thinking about this case and have been following on here for awhile now. Wasnt sure where to reply but I honestly think it was the parents. I have read books over and over again and stuff doesnt add up. I think it all began on the 23 during the ramseys party

Welcome!
New folks bring a fresh perspective. Even after so many years, there are new observations such as in the RN, which The Bunk brilliantly pointed out in his review and trial writing of the RN.
If you haven’t read the Interviews of JR and PR found on acandyrose.com, give those a try. There is a wealth of information in those interviews. You may be challenged to interpret some of the responses; prosecuting attorney MK said once that he did not feel as though he ever got a direct clear response to his questions. A few of the answers of PR and JR, well my sense of them were illustrated in this snip of an old film :

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3363304

 

[ukrberserker23]

Thanks. I was on here a year and a half ago as Ukrberserker. Lost my password, and had to start over. I have read a couple books about it.Watched PMPT, and Lou Smit's movie. Also watched the interviews of JR and PR. Both LE and their press interviews. They both lied about most everything. Can't figure out how to put my icon back on my posts. It was the guy bashing the computer, which is what I did everyday living in Ukraine for 8 years.

 

[chlban]

Thanks. I was on here a year and a half ago as Ukrberserker. Lost my password, and had to start over. I have read a couple books about it.Watched PMPT, and Lou Smit's movie. Also watched the interviews of JR and PR. Both LE and their press interviews. They both lied about most everything. Can't figure out how to put my icon back on my posts. It was the guy bashing the computer, which is what I did everyday living in Ukraine for 8 years.

I have seen PMPT, but what is Lou Smit's movie? See you are already providing new information!

 

[elannia]

Welcome!
New folks bring a fresh perspective. Even after so many years, there are new observations such as in the RN, which The Bunk brilliantly pointed out in his review and trial writing of the RN.
If you haven’t read the Interviews of JR and PR found on acandyrose.com, give those a try. There is a wealth of information in those interviews. You may be challenged to interpret some of the responses; prosecuting attorney MK said once that he did not feel as though he ever got a direct clear response to his questions. A few of the answers of PR and JR, well my sense of them were illustrated in this snip of an old film :

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3363304

Thanks. There is so much I have been reading into the past few months and books too. My head is so full I dont even know where to begin.I have two theories. One it was just patsy. Two patsy and john.

 

[chlban]

Thanks. There is so much I have been reading into the past few months and books too. My head is so full I dont even know where to begin.I have two theories. One it was just patsy. Two patsy and john.

You are not alone. I have my primary which is just Patsy and my secondary which is Burke caused the head injury, Patsy did all the rest.

 

[ukrberserker23]

It is on Youtube, but I don't remember the name of it. Just Google Lou Smit movie, it will come up. He is still spouting Intruders Did It. I do have a question though. Did anyone in the coroner's office test JBR's blood for date rape drugs like Ecstasy, MDMA, or Rohypnol? Just curious.