RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

Ive had this question now for awhile and hope its ok to post it here. Ive gone back and searched the older threads with no success..

On the subject of the cord/paintbrush found on JB's neck: Even if it WAS an EA device, why would it be on the victim's neck?

The purpose of EA is to enhance orgasm. So whoever attacked wanted to enhance JB's orgasm? Really?

Wouldnt it make more sense for the device to be on the molester, to enhance his (or her) pleasure?

It's hard to say what excited the molester. It's also hard to say what they were looking for. I know this sounds weird but while the majority of sexual assaults and rape are for the pleasure of the assaulter, there are cases where the pleasure of the person assaulted is foremost. I know of a few cases where men assaulted women, giving them oral sex until orgasm.

I'm not an expert at all, but it seems to me when there is digital penetration or less (oral) on children the molester is most probably looking for the child to have a sexual response, that that sexual response is what gets the molester off.

It could be a little girl's orgasm did it for the molester.
It could be the molester couldn't orgasm themselves so they had to make someone else
It could be there was another mechanism used by the molester to enhance their orgasm that was never found/identified.
 
Thank you, 2 percent! I wish Id spoken up and asked sooner-- would've saved myself a few days of pondering. Im a little embarrassed because the answers you provided should also have been easily seen by me but werent. They were hiding behind a big old brain glitch. I can see that now (and understand why it was there <sigh>)...

Thats whats so great about these forums! Im so gratefull to be able to discuss things with other people holding similiar interests :)
 
It's hard to say what excited the molester. It's also hard to say what they were looking for. I know this sounds weird but while the majority of sexual assaults and rape are for the pleasure of the assaulter, there are cases where the pleasure of the person assaulted is foremost. I know of a few cases where men assaulted women, giving them oral sex until orgasm.

I'm not an expert at all, but it seems to me when there is digital penetration or less (oral) on children the molester is most probably looking for the child to have a sexual response, that that sexual response is what gets the molester off.

It could be a little girl's orgasm did it for the molester.
It could be the molester couldn't orgasm themselves so they had to make someone else
It could be there was another mechanism used by the molester to enhance their orgasm that was never found/identified.

Good deduction, I think. When it comes to child molestation, many of us do not imagine the molester may desire to provide pleasure to the victim.
 
Renah, you’ve given me some other thoughts about the ligature and “false” garotte. But, a little different direction here, I wanted to give some thought to a theory by BOESP regarding PR and corporal abuse. I can’t remember where BOESP posted this, so I’m posting here, since the RDI thread is safer to discuss indelicate theories.

One of the (and not the only) problems for the R’s was that the 5 physicians and forensic sexual abuse experts concluded not just acute abuse, but also chronic abuse. Acute abuse could be attributed to the paintbrush jab. But then what does one do about the “chronic abuse” theory? Deny, deny, deny. LW shut this line of questioning down with a tirade. But this abuse was, imo, at the heart of the cover up. So, if the paintbrush were utilized to cover past abuse of JB, then it would seem the person who used the paintbrush for the final violation of JB knew about abuse – at a minimum the abuse of that evening. PR or JR? – because I attribute the cover up to one or both of those two.

UKGuy brought up a point in another thread that if PR were douching JB, why not fess up that the whole scene was an accident, and that she (PR) had been trying to correct vaginal infections by douching. PR could even plead ignorance that she didn’t know this was abusive. But PR doesn’t do this. The cover up is the paintbrush jab, not an explanation about douching. But JB was cleaned up from the paintbrush jab, and imho, this indicates 2 different stagers.

A second thing which speaks against the corporal punishment, though I truly do not dismiss this corporal punishment as a possibility, is the fact that things were escalating in December 1996 and the teachers noted how much clingier JB was to PR. JB was relying on PR for protection.

Next one has the fecal incontinence which is a flag of abuse, because no little girl of 5 or 6 wants to have those kinds of accidents. But her body was rebelling, even if she couldn’t rebel against her abuser. (And if her accidents were only because of the pageantry pressure, she would not have shown the physical signs of abuse.) Because she was described as the family “spark plug”, my guess would be she couldn’t rebel against someone older and more of an authority figure (not just a few years older). JB had in previous times gotten into family tussles with her older brother, so she was not afraid of showing gumption towards him. There’s a short list for older who had access to JB – PR, DP, JAR, JR. In my book, the abuse was most likely perpetrated by an older person, whom JB could not rebel against. I do not eliminate BR, just don’t find him as likely. (But what do I know!)

Both JAR and his sister M denied that JR was anything but a wonderful gentile father. So did past wife. Beth was killed and what may or may not have happened to her is closed forever. However, I’ll repeat what a grief counselor told me once. Everyone grieves in their own time frame. But when grief continues for an extended period of time, and it changes the person grieving, it is a sign of some deep, unfinished business with the person who died. JR’s photos of Beth in his bathroom, his deep grief indicate something unsettled in him.

In showing some bias, the BPD tried to follow the sexual history of JR – including past affairs, visitation of 🤬🤬🤬🤬 shops, and interviews with past friends. Two friends, in separate interviews, made the statements that JR was devious and that JR was a “ladies man” but extremely discreet.

All this posted moo and without firm conclusions.
:moo:
 
Ive had this question now for awhile and hope its ok to post it here. Ive gone back and searched the older threads with no success..

On the subject of the cord/paintbrush found on JB's neck: Even if it WAS an EA device, why would it be on the victim's neck?

The purpose of EA is to enhance orgasm. So whoever attacked wanted to enhance JB's orgasm? Really?

Wouldnt it make more sense for the device to be on the molester, to enhance his (or her) pleasure?

Renah, it's ok to post anything RDI here!

There is another reason that 2 percent did not mention.

During use of an EA device, the victim will shudder, for lack of a better word, before passing out. This shuddering mimics an orgasm, allowing the abuser to feel "ok" about what they are doing because they can convince themselves the victim "feels good", "likes it", "is getting off". IMO it's not about giving pleasure, it's about excusing behavior they know is wrong, i.e. justifying it. It also enhances the sexual pleasure of the abuser when they see this involuntary reaction in their victims.

I've heard abuse victims talk about having an EA device used on them. This is how they describe it.
 
I've heard abuse victims talk about having an EA device used on them. This is how they describe it.

I don't know anyone with EA experience. However, I know from personal experience (not mine) that some molesters choose digital and oral on their victims because they feel it makes them safer (from exposure, evidence if it goes to court, etc). It may not be what they want to do but it's within their safety zone and enough to satisfy them.
At least for a time...we all know escalation figures.
 
I don't know anyone with EA experience. However, I know from personal experience (not mine) that some molesters choose digital and oral on their victims because they feel it makes them safer (from exposure, evidence if it goes to court, etc). It may not be what they want to do but it's within their safety zone and enough to satisfy them.
At least for a time...we all know escalation figures.

I didn't mean to imply I know them personally, sorry. I meant I've heard them speak, read their accounts, etc.

I'm sure you're right that some abusers feel they have a better chance of getting away with it if they stick to oral and digital abuse.
 
Yuk just yuk.

FWIW I really don't think this is a case of EA, because they used a snapped off paintbrush which seems improvised.

If they were playing EA, they'd have the proper equipment.

:twocents:
 
Is it possible to play EA (Erotic Asphyxiation) games and not leave evidence on the throat? I mean, I've seen TV crime shows where they say it's possible, but is it really? Especially if you're choking someone else, do you know where to stop to prevent bruising?

I think this was the first attempt at EA with JB. Mostly based on the lack of evidence of previous bruising. Who knows? Maybe she was never meant to survive it.


Edited to add: Sorry, sorry, sorry Electronic Arts (EA) Games!! I am not in any way implicating them in this crime or erotic asphyxiation. My mistake completely!
 
The garrotte suggests a genuine attempt to throttle her. At least to my mind.

She wasn't dying as quick as they thought she would so they helped it along, then decided to leave it there as it was something they imagined a perv would do.

It helps to remember, they genuinely expected to get away with this, not to be doubted and every single aspect reviewed again and again.

:sick:
 
No. I think the parents did the cover up.:moo:

Here's how it just doesn't add up for me -

One Ramsey murdering/staging JB - unlikely.
Two Ramseys murdering/staging JB - even more unlikely
Three Ramseys murdering/staging JB - statistically, it's off the charts. Literally.

The numbers also indicate that the suspect which is the most unlikely to have been physically able or psychologically capable of murdering/sexually abusing such a beautiful, sweet little girl, was BR.

:cow:

Is it possible? I don't think so, but nothing's impossible. The other problem I have though, is the sheer lack of evidence it was BR. We have PR's handwriting and JR's staging and lying, so we already know they're not the odd man out.

Kwim?
 
Here's how it just doesn't add up for me -

One Ramsey murdering/staging JB - unlikely.
Two Ramseys murdering/staging JB - even more unlikely
Three Ramseys murdering/staging JB - statistically, it's off the charts. Literally.

The numbers also indicate that the suspect which is the most unlikely to have been physically able or psychologically capable of murdering/sexually abusing such a beautiful, sweet little girl, was BR.

:cow:

Is it possible? I don't think so, but nothing's impossible. The other problem I have though, is the sheer lack of evidence it was BR. We have PR's handwriting and JR's staging and lying, so we already know they're not the odd man out.

Kwim?

This thread is RDI Theories and Discussions ONLY.
 
Here's how it just doesn't add up for me -

One Ramsey murdering/staging JB - unlikely.
Two Ramseys murdering/staging JB - even more unlikely
Three Ramseys murdering/staging JB - statistically, it's off the charts. Literally.

The numbers also indicate that the suspect which is the most unlikely to have been physically able or psychologically capable of murdering/sexually abusing such a beautiful, sweet little girl, was BR.

:cow:

Is it possible? I don't think so, but nothing's impossible. The other problem I have though, is the sheer lack of evidence it was BR. We have PR's handwriting and JR's staging and lying, so we already know they're not the odd man out.

Kwim?

SapphireSteel,

Absence of evidence does not reflect an absence of proof. JR and PR might have been covering for BR, else why relocate him that very morning, big red flag?

BDI beats both JDI and PDI when it comes to statistical analysis, it more consistent and explains more evidence.

I'm open to JDI, PDI or IDI, just place the evidence on the table.


.
 
Here's how it just doesn't add up for me -

One Ramsey murdering/staging JB - unlikely.
Two Ramseys murdering/staging JB - even more unlikely
Three Ramseys murdering/staging JB - statistically, it's off the charts. Literally.


The numbers also indicate that the suspect which is the most unlikely to have been physically able or psychologically capable of murdering/sexually abusing such a beautiful, sweet little girl, was BR.

:cow:

Is it possible? I don't think so, but nothing's impossible. The other problem I have though, is the sheer lack of evidence it was BR. We have PR's handwriting and JR's staging and lying, so we already know they're not the odd man out.

Kwim?
Sapphire Steel: Respectfully.......According your above bolded statement you claim not to be RDI.

This particular thread was created for members who think RDI. We discuss evidence and theories associated with that belief. This thread is not for defending our theories to posters who think it is unlikely RDI......There are plenty of other threads for that. Sorry, I'm just trying to keep the peace.
 
Renah, you’ve given me some other thoughts about the ligature and “false” garotte. But, a little different direction here, I wanted to give some thought to a theory by BOESP regarding PR and corporal abuse. I can’t remember where BOESP posted this, so I’m posting here, since the RDI thread is safer to discuss indelicate theories.

One of the (and not the only) problems for the R’s was that the 5 physicians and forensic sexual abuse experts concluded not just acute abuse, but also chronic abuse. Acute abuse could be attributed to the paintbrush jab. But then what does one do about the “chronic abuse” theory? Deny, deny, deny. LW shut this line of questioning down with a tirade. But this abuse was, imo, at the heart of the cover up. So, if the paintbrush were utilized to cover past abuse of JB, then it would seem the person who used the paintbrush for the final violation of JB knew about abuse – at a minimum the abuse of that evening. PR or JR? – because I attribute the cover up to one or both of those two.

UKGuy brought up a point in another thread that if PR were douching JB, why not fess up that the whole scene was an accident, and that she (PR) had been trying to correct vaginal infections by douching. PR could even plead ignorance that she didn’t know this was abusive. But PR doesn’t do this. The cover up is the paintbrush jab, not an explanation about douching. But JB was cleaned up from the paintbrush jab, and imho, this indicates 2 different stagers.

A second thing which speaks against the corporal punishment, though I truly do not dismiss this corporal punishment as a possibility, is the fact that things were escalating in December 1996 and the teachers noted how much clingier JB was to PR. JB was relying on PR for protection.

Next one has the fecal incontinence which is a flag of abuse, because no little girl of 5 or 6 wants to have those kinds of accidents. But her body was rebelling, even if she couldn’t rebel against her abuser. (And if her accidents were only because of the pageantry pressure, she would not have shown the physical signs of abuse.) Because she was described as the family “spark plug”, my guess would be she couldn’t rebel against someone older and more of an authority figure (not just a few years older). JB had in previous times gotten into family tussles with her older brother, so she was not afraid of showing gumption towards him. There’s a short list for older who had access to JB – PR, DP, JAR, JR. In my book, the abuse was most likely perpetrated by an older person, whom JB could not rebel against. I do not eliminate BR, just don’t find him as likely. (But what do I know!)

Both JAR and his sister M denied that JR was anything but a wonderful gentile father. So did past wife. Beth was killed and what may or may not have happened to her is closed forever. However, I’ll repeat what a grief counselor told me once. Everyone grieves in their own time frame. But when grief continues for an extended period of time, and it changes the person grieving, it is a sign of some deep, unfinished business with the person who died. JR’s photos of Beth in his bathroom, his deep grief indicate something unsettled in him.

In showing some bias, the BPD tried to follow the sexual history of JR – including past affairs, visitation of 🤬🤬🤬🤬 shops, and interviews with past friends. Two friends, in separate interviews, made the statements that JR was devious and that JR was a “ladies man” but extremely discreet.

All this posted moo and without firm conclusions.
:moo:[
/QUOTE]

Outstanding post!

:rockon:
 
Ive had this question now for awhile and hope its ok to post it here. Ive gone back and searched the older threads with no success..

On the subject of the cord/paintbrush found on JB's neck: Even if it WAS an EA device,

It wasn't. Let's take this a step at a time. I'm saying, imo, that the garrotte that we see in the crime scene photos was not an EA device. My reason is that the "slip" knot only slips when tightening. It doesn't slip loose. I've tied this knot several times in 1/4" nylon line similar to what the killer used. It doesn't slip loose.

It's possible, but imo not probable, that it would be used for EA if it couldn't easily loosen. The idea is that sexual arousal can be had, or mimicked, by asphyxiation. Usually the practice is not intended to actually kill, though accidents do happen. With the garrotte as we see it, it should have been obvious that an accident was likely to happen. A proper EA device, I believe, should tighten to achieve the desired result, but should loosen quickly to avoid killing.

That's not to say EA games didn't go on, or that some EA device made from the same line wasn't used. But the garrotte as we see it is, imo, a killing device, not for EA games.

The garrotte that we see isn't necessarily the first or only version of a line around her neck.

why would it be on the victim's neck?

The purpose of EA is to enhance orgasm. So whoever attacked wanted to enhance JB's orgasm? Really?

Wouldnt it make more sense for the device to be on the molester, to enhance his (or her) pleasure?

2 Percent already answered this. I am more familiar (not personally) with males asphyxiating themselves to stimulate their own arousal. But human sexuality can be weird and wacky.
 
Sapphire Steel: You asked me if I think you are IDI so,

Again, respectfully, and one last time from me on this subject as I am not one who enjoys bickering ..........

Just scroll up to post #64 in which you stated:

"Here's how it just doesn't add up for me -

One Ramsey murdering/staging JB - unlikely.
Two Ramseys murdering/staging JB - even more unlikely
Three Ramseys murdering/staging JB - statistically, it's off the charts. Literally."


That is what I was responding to. It appears from that statement you don't think RDI. If I misunderstand whatever it is you are implying, I do sincerely apologize. However, I am not the only one confused by it. Perhaps you have conflicting beliefs and are trying to work them out.

So in answer to your question, it is difficult to know what you think.
 

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