RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[BOESP]

What was he so sorry about?

I have no idea.

Also, according to an article at http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon0216.htm (BBM)

"On Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. "Patsy needs you right now." Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenét's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. She then told her to lie down. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice. Patsy then touched Pam's face. "Couldn't you fix this for me?" she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. "Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen'," Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenét but was afraid to say."

 

[Chelly]

I have no idea.

Also, according to an article at http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon0216.htm (BBM)

"On Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. "Patsy needs you right now." Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenét's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. She then told her to lie down. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice. Patsy then touched Pam's face. "Couldn't you fix this for me?" she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. "Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen'," Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenét but was afraid to say."

Family statements and behavior during the first 24-36 hours of the murder are most telling. After that everything seems cover my a$$.

 

[gramcracker]

I just don't see any need to bring BR into it, especially as he was heard in the background of the 911 call saying "what did you find?".

If they were engaged in a cover up on his account, he wouldn't be asking what they found, he would already know what they found, and he would already have been instructed to shut up, including while the call was made.

I was crafty and sneaky when I was a kid, usually involving things like snooping in drawers and closets, eavesdropping on conversations the adults were having, and reading books that I knew would result in punishment if I was caught. when it was about to hit the fan, I was pretty good at finding out what/how much the adults knew and then I knew what/how much I should admit to, to satisfy them. it was like tossing a coin, sometimes I lost and that was a bummer but I had more than my share of wins (as my siblings well know)

IIRC what he said was "well, what did you find?" and my formerly sneaky self recognized a fellow traveler

 

[Chrishope]

Patsy played softball in a womens' league- she may have had a very strong arm. Why not admit it? There are a few reasons why not, First, I believe BR may also have been molesting his sister and Patsy would not want any light shed on that. In an exam, evidence of molestation would have been seen. And also, JB may have gone into convulsions, coma and appeared to have been killed instantly (though she remained alive for a while).

OK, maybe. Was she a pitcher?

So you figure a flashlight pitched underhand can do that kind of damage? Of course she might have thrown it overhand.

 

[madeleine]

It never made much sense to me why a wife would cover (in this case not only keep her mouth shut and cover up but also help in the staging) for a husband who not only molested but killed their child. (even if I've met some stand by your man wives in my life and I get their way of living/thinking)

It also never made much sense to me why a father who already lost one daughter would cover for a psycho crazy wife and put his son's life at risk by allowing her to raise him after such a tragedy.

This is the reason I can't exclude BDI,their behavior makes sense if they're both covering up for BR or someone else.

BUT there has been a theory posted the other days...that PR caught JR and JB together,got mad ,intended to hurt JR (threw the maglite at him) and hit JB instead.

IMO it's a BIT far-fetched but it got me thinking.....maybe this kind of scenario explains their behavior indeed....
you cover for me (molestation) and I cover for you (accidental head bash),we BOTH WIN,we're both safe.if you say something I will drag you down with me.

 

[deca]

I do like that theory BUT I keep thinking that an accidental head bash is just that. It isn't as if they would put Patsy away for an accident. Kids get hurt all the time and there might be an investigation but unless there were priors not much more would come of that.

So even if it looked like she was dead or whatever, I can't imagine the seconds after the head injury Patsy NOT reaching for the phone and calling 911. Instead of panicking and trying to get help for her child, she starts thinking that somehow she needs to cover her a$$ and lets her kid die?

However, in some earlier thread somewhere, people brought up that maybe JB had a seizure and foamed at the mouth or something before going still. Perhaps if they were busy watching that and that gave john time to convince Patsy that they needed to cover it up.

IDK. No one's reactions make any sense to me.

 

[UKGuy]

It never made much sense to me why a wife would cover (in this case not only keep her mouth shut and cover up but also help in the staging) for a husband who not only molested but killed their child. (even if I've met some stand by your man wives in my life and I get their way of living/thinking)

It also never made much sense to me why a father who already lost one daughter would cover for a psycho crazy wife and put his son's life at risk by allowing her to raise him after such a tragedy.

This is the reason I can't exclude BDI,their behavior makes sense if they're both covering up for BR or someone else.

BUT there has been a theory posted the other days...that PR caught JR and JB together,got mad ,intended to hurt JR (threw the maglite at him) and hit JB instead.

IMO it's a BIT far-fetched but it got me thinking.....maybe this kind of scenario explains their behavior indeed....
you cover for me (molestation) and I cover for you (accidental head bash),we BOTH WIN,we're both safe.if you say something I will drag you down with me.

madeleine,
This is an old favorite. I reckon its a special case theory invented to explain away the head injury, since her head injury is counter intuitive, i.e. no R needs to whack JonBenet on the head, for any reason whatsoever?

Bear in mind that the head bash was invisible, so no explanation was required in fact no staging was advanced to substantiate any head injury.

Its the molestation that was hidden and amended, this is the secret that R's hoped would never become public!


.

 

[Nom de plume]

It never made much sense to me why a wife would cover (in this case not only keep her mouth shut and cover up but also help in the staging) for a husband who not only molested but killed their child. (even if I've met some stand by your man wives in my life and I get their way of living/thinking)

It also never made much sense to me why a father who already lost one daughter would cover for a psycho crazy wife and put his son's life at risk by allowing her to raise him after such a tragedy.

This is the reason I can't exclude BDI,their behavior makes sense if they're both covering up for BR or someone else.

BUT there has been a theory posted the other days...that PR caught JR and JB together,got mad ,intended to hurt JR (threw the maglite at him) and hit JB instead.

IMO it's a BIT far-fetched but it got me thinking.....maybe this kind of scenario explains their behavior indeed....
you cover for me (molestation) and I cover for you (accidental head bash),we BOTH WIN,we're both safe.if you say something I will drag you down with me.

The very first time I heard about this case on the news, I got a picture in my head of PR catching JR molesting JB, swinging and hitting JB in the head. I've never been able to get that picture or theory out of my head, although I've had many other theories over the last almost 17 yrs.

I don't necessarily see that it had to be her swinging at JR & hitting JB by mistake either. Some women are screwed up enough to blame the child instead of the adult male, out of jealousy, and well just being screwed up in the head. I believe PR was also a victim of abuse, most likely at the hands of DP, and NP may very well have blamed PR instead of DP. If that's the case, PR would naturally do the same when faced with that situation. That's how she was trained. PR told others that JB was being "flirty". I could see her being of a mindset to wrongly place the blame on JB for "enticing" her father with her "flirty" behavior.

PR had just been through chemo, which had rendered their sex life non existent. Knowing JR's past indiscretions, I'm sure PR wondered if JR was cheating on her too. Who knows, maybe she'd caught him cheating before? Maybe she'd caught him molesting JB before? PR is a has been at that point in her life. An ex beauty queen, a middle aged woman going into menopause due to her illness, with a beautiful young daughter "taking her place" as a current beauty queen, and the object of her husband's sexual affections.

If PR swung at JB intentionally, and JB appeared to be dead, no way would either of them call 911. JR just molested her, and PR just killed her (or so they thought).

IF JR was using something, say like a scarf, or just a cord, on JB as an EA device when PR caught them, it would leave a mark which would have to be explained somehow, hence the garrote.

I'm not dead set on this as "my theory", but I still can't discount the possibility that this is how it happened.

 

[Chrishope]

I do like that theory BUT I keep thinking that an accidental head bash is just that. It isn't as if they would put Patsy away for an accident. Kids get hurt all the time and there might be an investigation but unless there were priors not much more would come of that.

So even if it looked like she was dead or whatever, I can't imagine the seconds after the head injury Patsy NOT reaching for the phone and calling 911. Instead of panicking and trying to get help for her child, she starts thinking that somehow she needs to cover her a$$ and lets her kid die?

However, in some earlier thread somewhere, people brought up that maybe JB had a seizure and foamed at the mouth or something before going still. Perhaps if they were busy watching that and that gave john time to convince Patsy that they needed to cover it up.

IDK. No one's reactions make any sense to me.

Right, so the blow to the head probably isn't an accident?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I was crafty and sneaky when I was a kid, usually involving things like snooping in drawers and closets, eavesdropping on conversations the adults were having, and reading books that I knew would result in punishment if I was caught. when it was about to hit the fan, I was pretty good at finding out what/how much the adults knew and then I knew what/how much I should admit to, to satisfy them. it was like tossing a coin, sometimes I lost and that was a bummer but I had more than my share of wins (as my siblings well know)

IIRC what he said was "well, what did you find?" and my formerly sneaky self recognized a fellow traveler

The cover up had been completed by the time the call was made.

IF they were indeed covering up for Burke, he would not be there acting all innocent...he would have already been briefed. He would already know exactly what they were attempting, not asking awkward questions in the background to be recorded and pondered over forever more. I actually think Burke was the one aspect of their crime that they didn't plan for. :moo:

If they thought he had nothing to do with it, they wouldn't have covered up, and if he'd had anything to do with it, he wouldn't be acting all innocent, to fool them. They already knew, so it follows that he would already been coached and probably returned to bed already. "you were asleep all night son, remember that".

No, Burkes question to me is exactly the sort of question a little boy would ask when he wakes up over hearing his parents planning something that he is NOT complicit to. He sounded confused.

:twocents:

:cow:

 

[gramcracker]

your post makes sense. but he knew his parents were upset about something and it sounded to me like he was fishing, maybe wondering if some of his own sneaky/improper actions were part of whatever was going on. (poop in the box of chocolates?)

it was the inflection on "did" that caught my attention. it wasn't "well, what did you find" it was "well, what did you find?"

maybe I parse words too much, but I've also wondered if he was eavesdropping and heard them talking about finding something/someone. he didn't say "what did you hear?" or "what did you see?"

I don't agree that there wouldn't have been a coverup up if BR was uninvolved. I think they would have covered it up for anyone named Ramsey

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. No one else was involved. There was no staging for police. Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy as part of a psychotic fantasy revolving around an imagined relationship with a supernatural being, the fear of judgment by that God and the fear of death. What people mistakingly take as staging for police had symbolic meaning known only to Patsy. This includes the ransom note. There were two aspects to what was done to the body: the ligatures were suspension devices, the body was posed and viewed and then taken down, placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to set the kidnapping scene up in Patsy's mind. The ransom note is full of the ideas that swirled in Patsy's mind that night and plagued her for many years.

The goal was not to kill JonBenet but to make an Angel out of her.

Patsy herself said after the funeral "JonBenet is in Heaven with God awaiting her mother's arrival and it won't be long." Patsy put JonBenet in that heaven to complete the fantasy and in her mind assure her life after death.

As the dedication in DOI says:

Wherever we go ...
Whatever we do ...
[We're gonna go through it together ...]

 

[SapphireSteel]

your post makes sense. but he knew his parents were upset about something and it sounded to me like he was fishing, maybe wondering if some of his own sneaky/improper actions were part of whatever was going on. (poop in the box of chocolates?)

it was the inflection on "did" that caught my attention. it wasn't "well, what did you find" it was "well, what did you find?"

maybe I parse words too much, but I've also wondered if he was eavesdropping and heard them talking about finding something/someone. he didn't say "what did you hear?" or "what did you see?"

I don't agree that there wouldn't have been a coverup up if BR was uninvolved. I think they would have covered it up for anyone named Ramsey

I never said that.

J&P were covering up all right, but for themselves, so we agree.

I genuinely believe they forgot about Burke. Whatever games they were up to with their beautiful little daughter, their son was largely spared from. I do believe he was probably afraid of both his parents however, possibly still is.

They assumed he was asleep, then when he did appear, they ignored him. They hadn't figured out what to tell him yet at the time of the 911 call, and right at that second they were confident they could control him (as always) so ignored his presence. Pity about that, if one of them had ushered him away, he would never have been suspected at all...:banghead:

Burke was never particularly important in that house, in my view at least. He wasn't pretty enough nor a little girl. If I were to rate the Ramsey family in terms of perceived pecking order, it goes - John, Patsy, JB, Burke right at the bottom.

JB was treated to all sorts of sick behaviours that her brother escaped, simply because he wasn't a girl.

To make it crystal clear, my theory is - J&P were both abusing JB, it went too far, and they were only ever covering up for themselves.

:cow:

 

[gramcracker]

you

If they thought he had nothing to do with it, they wouldn't have covered up ...

me

I don't agree that there wouldn't have been a coverup up if BR was uninvolved.

I never said that.

maybe I'm misunderstanding. it's a small-ish point, so I'll move on

 

[SapphireSteel]

you


me




maybe I'm misunderstanding. it's a small-ish point, so I'll move on

"if they'dve thought he'd done it, they wouldn't be covering up"

If P&J had thought Burke had done it, they wouldn't be covering up.

The reason i say this is - if any parent found their baby dead/dying, the very first thing they do is call 911.

The Ramseys didn't, they staged instead - which means, they weren't shocked, appalled, horrified or trying to help JB live...in fact, quite the opposite.

J?PDI = The staging = butt covering
BDI = a panicked immediate call to 911, no staging.

If BDI, there was nothing to stage...a fatal accident.

Only my opinion of course.

Follow me now? :seeya:

The staging indicates j/p guilt alone.

 

[Nom de plume]

OT, but...

artyguy:

I just want to wish everyone a very happy Monday!! I don't know about the rest of you but I'm now having a SUPER day!! In fact, this is the best Monday I've had in years!! Hope everyone else is having a great Monday too!!

arty:

 

[2 percent]

OT, but...

artyguy:

I just want to wish everyone a very happy Monday!! I don't know about the rest of you but I'm now having a SUPER day!! In fact, this is the best Monday I've had in years!! Hope everyone else is having a great Monday too!!

arty:

Jealous but admire the spirit. Enjoy!

 

[questfortrue]

OT, but...

artyguy:

I just want to wish everyone a very happy Monday!! I don't know about the rest of you but I'm now having a SUPER day!! In fact, this is the best Monday I've had in years!! Hope everyone else is having a great Monday too!!

arty:

Happy! to hear that!

 

[madeleine]

"if they'dve thought he'd done it, they wouldn't be covering up"

If P&J had thought Burke had done it, they wouldn't be covering up.

The reason i say this is - if any parent found their baby dead/dying, the very first thing they do is call 911.

The Ramseys didn't, they staged instead - which means, they weren't shocked, appalled, horrified or trying to help JB live...in fact, quite the opposite.

J?PDI = The staging = butt covering
BDI = a panicked immediate call to 911, no staging.

If BDI, there was nothing to stage...a fatal accident.

Only my opinion of course.

Follow me now? :seeya:

The staging indicates j/p guilt alone.

Yes it makes sense.But it depends on what was real and what staging.If some of those horrible elements of the crime (garotte,sexual assault) were REAL and done by BR then it's understandable why they wanted to hide it.No one wants to admit to have raised a cold blooded troubled psychopath.Just speculating.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

There was no "they".
Only Patsy was involved.
There was no staging for police.
Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy.