Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #5

[nanny2five]

Well folks, I'm heading out on a trip tomorrow for nearly two weeks, during which I will have extremely limited Web access.

So I hope if I do get to check in, or when I come back, there will be REAL news.

Thanks to all my fellow sleuthers for making this such a great online community.

:blowkiss:

One final thought: IMO Max's death was definitely, in some way, the catalyst for Rebecca's. I won't go so far as to say I don't believe in coincidences, but I am quite skeptical of them in certain circumstances. Such as this one.

Good night and goodbye for now. :wave:

be safe, Izzy, and check in when you can

 

[StJohn]

I have thought a lot about the state of mind that would have been necessary to lead RN to commit suicide. People commit suicide for various reasons that usually involve overwhelming pain and hopelessness. In that state of mind, they can see no other way out. In the 2 days prior to the hanging, RN had experienced an extremely traumatic event, one that would try the coping skills of the most stable of individuals.

Here is one, among many things, that really bugs me about the 2 days prior to the hanging. RN told the kennel owner that she needed the dog picked up so she could be at the hospital with "her son". Why, then, did she not stay at the hospital with JS on Tues night? The dog was out of the picture by then. Most hospitals, especially children's hospitals, have comfortable waiting areas for familys. The kennel owner said RN seemed subdued, quiet, on Tues am. Could she have already started contemplating suicide? Did she spend a lot of time alone on Tues, blaming herself and wondering if her relationship with JS would survive if Max didn't make it? Knowing that the MRI on Wed might confirm brain death for Max, was RN afraid she couldn't handle the pain of this news?

Among other questions regarding the scene around RN's body, here are some possibilities:

Why are RN's legs bent and apart, as seen in Inobu's posted photo above? As has been posted previously, wouldn't you expect RN's legs to be straight had rigor mortis set in while she was hanging there? She reportedly used a contractors electrical cord for the noose. Those cords are covered with vinyl or plastic, giving them some elasticity. I think, over the hours, as she dangled beneath the balcony, the cord began to stretch, causing her feet to eventually touch the ground. Her legs started to bend under the weight of her body before rigor mortis set in. At that point, she would have been low enough for AS to cut her down without him needing to stand on anything.

What broke the table leg? I think the table was probably nearly directly under the window/balcony. When RN jumped, the electrical cord stretched, bungee style, enough so that RN's body struck the table, causing the leg to break. AS may have had to move the table out of the way to cut her down, explaining the position of the table in the photos.

The only thing that still bothers me about the suicide scenario is the fact that she was nude. However, someone theorized in an article I read that the nudity could have been an act of contrition, RN may have felt she needed to humiliate herself out of guilt over Max's accident.

Anyone seen anything new in the news? I can't find a thing.

 

[sdcali]

Thanks, Inobu!

 

[Inobu]

StJohn - the best way to answer the question is applied logic that way you do not add personal opinion or feelings, that is what I'm going to do here.

I have thought a lot about the state of mind that would have been necessary to lead RN to commit suicide. People commit suicide for various reasons that usually involve overwhelming pain and hopelessness. In that state of mind, they can see no other way out. In the 2 days prior to the hanging, RN had experienced an extremely traumatic event, one that would try the coping skills of the most stable of individuals.

As you stated suicide is something that builds up in a persons mind. The persons will is deteriorated to a point where they feel there is no alternative. Based on the accounts and her action she was not in that state. The sister validates in her call that all seemed ok.

Here is one, among many things, that really bugs me about the 2 days prior to the hanging. RN told the kennel owner that she needed the dog picked up so she could be at the hospital with "her son". Why, then, did she not stay at the hospital with JS on Tues night? The dog was out of the picture by then. Most hospitals, especially children's hospitals, have comfortable waiting areas for familys. The kennel owner said RN seemed subdued, quiet, on Tues am. Could she have already started contemplating suicide? Did she spend a lot of time alone on Tues, blaming herself and wondering if her relationship with JS would survive if Max didn't make it? Knowing that the MRI on Wed might confirm brain death for Max, was RN afraid she couldn't handle the pain of this news?

Reality states that two alpha males nor two alpha females can coexist and they do not share their young.

Among other questions regarding the scene around RN's body, here are some possibilities:

Why are RN's legs bent and apart, as seen in Inobu's posted photo above? As has been posted previously, wouldn't you expect RN's legs to be straight had rigor mortis set in while she was hanging there? She reportedly used a contractors electrical cord for the noose. Those cords are covered with vinyl or plastic, giving them some elasticity. I think, over the hours, as she dangled beneath the balcony, the cord began to stretch, causing her feet to eventually touch the ground. Her legs started to bend under the weight of her body before rigor mortis set in. At that point, she would have been low enough for AS to cut her down without him needing to stand on anything.

In any case the direction of the cord always contradicts the direction in which the body traveled.

What broke the table leg? I think the table was probably nearly directly under the window/balcony. When RN jumped, the electrical cord stretched, bungee style, enough so that RN's body struck the table, causing the leg to break. AS may have had to move the table out of the way to cut her down, explaining the position of the table in the photos.

A table leg in designed to bear weight from the top on the 4 legs. This table has a square base that supports the round top. It is also slated. She would have went through the table top if she was directly over it. It appears that the leg was broken from lateral force.

The only thing that still bothers me about the suicide scenario is the fact that she was nude. However, someone theorized in an article I read that the nudity could have been an act of contrition, RN may have felt she needed to humiliate herself out of guilt over Max's accident.

Suicide supersedes humiliation in that one can go no further after death. Humiliation is what one imposes on another. Most likely a women that ties nakedness with suicide is directing a message toward another intimate party it is meant for impact.

I believe RN intent was to get married not suicide.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

StJohn - the best way to answer the question is applied logic that way you do not add personal opinion or feelings, that is what I'm going to do here.




As you stated suicide is something that builds up in a persons mind. The persons will is deteriorated to a point where they feel there is no alternative. Based on the accounts and her action she was not in that state. The sister validates in her call that all seemed ok.


Reality states that two alpha males nor two alpha females can coexist and they do not share their young.



In any case the direction of the cord always contradicts the direction in which the body traveled.



A table leg in designed to bear weight from the top on the 4 legs. This table has a square base that supports the round top. It is also slated. She would have went through the table top if she was directly over it. It appears that the leg was broken from lateral force.



Suicide supersedes humiliation in that one can go no further after death. Humiliation is what one imposes on another. Most likely a women that ties nakedness with suicide is directing a message toward another intimate party it is meant for impact.

I believe RN intent was to get married not suicide.

Imo, you are trying to read the minds of suicide victims locking in their perceived behavior and placing it into a tiny box for one size to fit all, Inobu.

You are wrong imo. The person contemplating suicide does not have to show outwardly signs. In fact they often cover up their suicidal thoughts especially to close loved ones and friends. They know if they slip and show them any other way that family members and friends can pick up on the signs and stop what they are wanting to do.

When my husband's 24 year old nephew killed himself with a shotgun he outwardly pretended to be happy and life was normal. That very night he went to a movie with his fiancée and out to eat after then and talked about looking forward to their wedding that was two months away. He kissed her goodnight and within 30-40 minutes he was laying dead in the front yard of his grandparents home.

IMO

 

[branwynbreeze]

I was a staunch murder believer, but now I'm on the fence. What repeatedly comes into my mind is Occam's Razor. Who knows what really lurks in the dark depths of someone's mind? How many times after a horrific crime do you hear neighbors, co-workers, ect say they cannot believe it was so and so that carried out the crime? Rebecca could have thought the life she dreamed of and almost achieved was slipping away.

It seems obvious that it wasn't well planned by whomever, items used where what was handy. That could well open the door for DS, JS, AS or anyone (including RN if suicide) to have been involved. I cannot rule out the thought of some sort of talk between RN and ? that rage got the better of someone.

What bothers me is silence of LE. Perhaps they are getting all their ducks in a row, but I think they are trying to prove it wasn't murder even though evidence points that way. After all, look at the power and money behind people involved. If they really believed suicide and evidence pointed that way, I think they would have made some statement by now.

I also believe if this was just your average person we'd know a lot more than we do now.

 

[Wendy101]

I still think it was DS ... a small woman like she is (compare to JS) , in a fit of rage, attempted to choke JS... how logical is that? Oh yeah, didn't it say he was in his sleep when she attempted that? Humm.. I wonder if Rebecca was sleeping nude the night she slipped away.... Does anyone have that article available that speaks of DS choking JS? I thought I was sure it said while he was sleeping, but, now I am second guessing myself..

 

[4Jacy]

I was a staunch murder believer, but now I'm on the fence. What repeatedly comes into my mind is Occam's Razor. Who knows what really lurks in the dark depths of someone's mind? How many times after a horrific crime do you hear neighbors, co-workers, ect say they cannot believe it was so and so that carried out the crime? Rebecca could have thought the life she dreamed of and almost achieved was slipping away.

It seems obvious that it wasn't well planned by whomever, items used where what was handy. That could well open the door for DS, JS, AS or anyone (including RN if suicide) to have been involved. I cannot rule out the thought of some sort of talk between RN and ? that rage got the better of someone.

What bothers me is silence of LE. Perhaps they are getting all their ducks in a row, but I think they are trying to prove it wasn't murder even though evidence points that way. After all, look at the power and money behind people involved. If they really believed suicide and evidence pointed that way, I think they would have made some statement by now.

I also believe if this was just your average person we'd know a lot more than we do now.

Thanks for your post branwyn. I totally agree, except for the suicide part, which I don't believe for one minute. I could see rage in JS and DS and totally understand it. To have one of your own children die must be the most horrible thing in the world. I'm not saying I'd justify it if one of them murdered RN, but, because of the rage factor, I could understand it.

One thing I am praying for is that it wasn't ES's fault. Not saying that she did anything intentionally to harm/kill little Maxie, but suppose they were playing around at the top of the stairs and it got out of control. I would hate for her to go through her life with that on her conscience.
As I've also mentioned previously, it could well have been the dog's fault; perhaps playing too close to the stairs.

AND...the money the power plays largely into this picture. The autopsy report is in; why no release? :twocents:

 

[jjenny]

Imo, you are trying to read the minds of suicide victims locking in their perceived behavior and placing it into a tiny box for one size to fit all, Inobu.

You are wrong imo. The person contemplating suicide does not have to show outwardly signs. In fact they often cover up their suicidal thoughts especially to close loved ones and friends. They know if they slip and show them any other way that family members and friends can pick up on the signs and stop what they are wanting to do.

When my husband's 24 year old nephew killed himself with a shotgun he outwardly pretended to be happy and life was normal. That very night he went to a movie with his fiancée and out to eat after then and talked about looking forward to their wedding that was two months away. He kissed her goodnight and within 30-40 minutes he was laying dead in the front yard of his grandparents home.

IMO

Well I think that story ought to be pretty unusual. In a lot of these suicidal cases, relatives have at least an inkling a person is suicidal. From what I gather, most people do exhibit suicide warning signs.

 

[Paladine]

Tox tests usually take around 8 weeks for all of them to come back. Some will start coming back in sooner.

If they put a rush on it then it may happen in 5-6 weeks but with so many personnel cutbacks in the labs due to the sagging economy it may take the full 8 weeks.

So everyone is thinking the murderer is Jonah and no longer think Dina did it?

IMO

I, for one, am leaning more toward JS. IMO, sometimes the simplest explanation is the real one...

IMO>>>After reading through every post, and it was not any particular ONE that did it, I come away with a feeling that this was possibly a parent coming home after possibly learning their child is brain dead, and releasing some rage...that went too far. IMO, this was someone who was comfortable creating such a mess....someone, imo, who had no fear in possibly throwing her off the balcony.....no worries about Adam in the next house, on the same property. Someone who felt very safe in what he was doing....IMO. To me, that's not Dina.

Still catching up....it's been SO busy here...back to reading and learning.

 

[Paladine]

It's been totally quiet where DS is concerned. You would think she would have made some sort of statement in support of JS. Or she is mourning and is having a tough time dealing with her only child's death. He sure is a cutie. RIP Maxie.

If my only child died, the world could be under nuclear attack and, frankly, I would not give a $hit. Nothing else would matter.

There are those reports of trouble between the two of them, JS and DS...in those reports she expressed fear of him and his power. Maybe saying nothing is the best she can say about him...?

"In a statement to police, she said: 'Jonah is the CEO of a large pharmaceutical corporation. He is very clever and very powerful."

'I feel scared of what he is capable of doing to me physically via the dog as well as the lengths he would try to go to "destroy" me in any way he was able to do so.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lent-marriage-ex-wife-Dina.html#ixzz1TuncwV6h

 

[CuriousAmazon]

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

J Am Acad Psychiatry Law 36:2:240-245 (2008)
Copyright © 2008 by the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law. This Article

Naked Suicide
Robert I. Simon, MD
Dr. Simon is Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, and Director, Program in Psychiatry and Law, Georgetown University School of Medicine, Washington, DC. Address correspondence to: Robert I. Simon, MD, 8008 Horseshoe Lane, Potomac, MD 20854-3831. E-mail: [email protected]

ABSTRACT Suicide attempts and completions by individuals while naked remain unexplored, both by clinicians and in the professional literature. Nakedness at the time of the incident conveys important information about an individual's mental state. Motivations for attempting or completing suicide while naked are discussed. Nakedness during a suicide attempt is presumptive evidence of high risk for suicide completion. Deliberate self-harm, without intent to die, is not usually inflicted while naked. The clinical and forensic implications of naked suicide are explored. In completed suicides, the state of dress, including partial undress and nakedness may provide important clues in a psychological autopsy. Forensic psychiatrists and treating clinicians who encounter naked suicides are afforded a unique opportunity to advance our knowledge. Letters to the editor and case reports would stimulate discourse about this little understood phenomenon.

(Article is a bit long, see above link for a breakdown):

• Abstract
• Autoerotic Asphyxia or Naked...
• Paradoxical Undressing
• Disrobing
• Method of Death
• Why Naked Suicide?
• Clinical Implications
• Forensic Implications
• Conclusions
• References

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I, for one, am leaning more toward JS. IMO, sometimes the simplest explanation is the real one...

IMO>>>After reading through every post, and it was not any particular ONE that did it, I come away with a feeling that this was possibly a parent coming home after possibly learning their child is brain dead, and releasing some rage...that went too far. IMO, this was someone who was comfortable creating such a mess....someone, imo, who had no fear in possibly throwing her off the balcony.....no worries about Adam in the next house, on the same property. Someone who felt very safe in what he was doing....IMO. To me, that's not Dina.

Still catching up....it's been SO busy here...back to reading and learning.

I agree. Somethings are exactly how they look.

We will see if that holds true in this case.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well I think that story ought to be pretty unusual. In a lot of these suicidal cases, relatives have at least an inkling a person is suicidal. From what I gather, most people do exhibit suicide warning signs.

Imo, it shows that all suicide victims cant be lumped into one because they are individuals..separate from each other. There is nothing set in stone showing how a suicidal person must act before they carry out their premeditated act.

There is no guarantee that a suicide victim will give off any red flags before they commit suicide though jjenny.

If it was that simple and red flags were always present more people would be saved from themselves by family members and friends rather than around 5,600 females and 25,000 males who are able to accomplish committing suicide every year.

A lot of families wrestle with the "not knowing" and "why" for the rest of their lives when someone they loved committed suicide.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

I agree. Somethings are exactly how they look.

We will see if that holds true in this case.

IMO

I really don't think this looks so obvious. If it was so obviously a suicide, I presume police could have declared this a "suicide" already.

 

[coastal]

I am sorry for your loss, ocean.

 

[justice be served]

The only thing I know for sure at this point is: That the delays of releasing real information by LE to the press has done its job -- if that was indeed the desired effect of the clam up. The spotlight on this case has been diminished to a sliver of light - and I truly hope that WS carries on the mission of looking for the truth in spite of the dearth of information. LE, however, does owe the public information -- and it has to be coming soon!!!

 

[Paladine]

So, who would he be most likely to try and place blame on? His brother? Ex wife? Daughter? Rebecca herself?

I say he would never (even if there was any tiny shread of proof), blame his daughter. That leaves three other people. Disturbing theory for sure!

IMO...let's assume this is a person who has alot of anger and rage issues (possibly evidenced by the scene), and is used to being 'in control' and being able to 'fix' most things, as most powerful men feel, imo...HE is the center of the Universe. Now, let's assume, his Child is brain dead and no amount of money, power or connections can fix it...maybe there is no one to blame and it was a sad, sad, accident.

Could be less about 'blame' and more about a mans lack of control and level of rage, when it came to his grief at loss of his Son? Maybe he was raging and someone was going to pay...IMO and IME, some powerful men, businessmen, sucessful men, keep it SO under control when they are 'out there' in the real world...when they get home, all h#ll can break loose.

 

[pferrin]

I agree ..mom said "If you cant say nothing good ..dont say nothin at all. This case is just messy ..all the way around...messy.

Loosing a child has to be unbearable...wanting to blame someone..not wanting to blame another child for your youngest childs death. Instead blame the only other person in the house that day...RN

I keep looking at the same thing Pal..who would feel the most comfortable commiting this crime. The homeowner.

I am not willing to believe that RN was that different than you or I ..what would we do?

What was my mindset when I thought I had finally found Mr. Right?..what if his child had a horrible accident in the home? Would I want to stay around to help the love of my life thru incredible challenge or would I hang my naked butt off the balcony for his brother to find?

Yes I do know that someone who wants to commit suicide doesnt have the most logical thinking..I have also read that alot of folks that commit suicide naked are in a mental health ward..their hands and feet are not tied.

Even if Mr. Right was furious at me ..I would try to help...If he wanted me to leave I would.

We cant ever know what anyone is thinking..in the same token I cant put myself as being that different than them.

 

[4Jacy]

I, for one, am leaning more toward JS. IMO, sometimes the simplest explanation is the real one...

IMO>>>After reading through every post, and it was not any particular ONE that did it, I come away with a feeling that this was possibly a parent coming home after possibly learning their child is brain dead, and releasing some rage...that went too far. IMO, this was someone who was comfortable creating such a mess....someone, imo, who had no fear in possibly throwing her off the balcony.....no worries about Adam in the next house, on the same property. Someone who felt very safe in what he was doing....IMO. To me, that's not Dina.

Still catching up....it's been SO busy here...back to reading and learning.

So many thanks to you Paladine. My thought exactly!!