Rehashing, debating and discussing the evidence

[MsMacGyver]

IMO, guilty on all counts.

I think that in March 2008 FCA entertained the idea of killing her parents, thus the web searches on neck breaking, household weapons, etc, AND at the same time, thought about how to kill Caylee and stage it, which is why she looked up missing children websites and chloroform. Murder on her mind.

By June FCA's lies and discovered thefts were causing her more problems than she wanted to deal with. CA wasn't providing enough babysitting service to suit her and she had found her new mark in Tony. Caylee as a meal and place-to-stay and job-avoidance ticket was no longer necessary.

Like JA, I hope, anyway, that FCA chloroformed Caylee before suffocating her with the duct tape. I believe the trunk evidence, so think that FCA likely did.

After the fact, I think it is somewhat possible that FCA made some half-arsed attempts to stage Caylee's murder as a kidnapping. That might explain why she intentionally left her purse in plain sight in her abandoned car, and why she left Caylee's car seat and favorite doll in the car.

Could be, though, that she just hoped the car would be stolen so that she could point to a car thief as the person responsible for whatever evidence was found in the car. (I remember a deposition by a FCA friend stating FCA went out of her way to point out Jesse had keys to the car, and so how could FCA know what happened to the car if it had been in someone else's possession, etc.

Mostly I think that after FCA murdered Caylee she completely moved on to her new lie-life with Tony, and that she only thought about Caylee when she could torture her mother on the subject.

I have no doubt she thought she could lie her way out of whatever fallout came up about Caylee's murder. And, pretty much, she has done just that.

:websleuther:.......Great Post!

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I believe they did have them and they just weren't presented at trial because RK and GA were not on trial. Nothing like that was said. And FYI, if it were an issue JB could have gotten the records with a subpoena as neither man had anything to hide. If JB did not provide them they were of no benefit to defense. SA is not going to stand in front of the jury and argue that GA and RK work/phone numbers prove they did not commit the crime.....they are not suspects and never were. If this were the case every friend KC ever had would have had to provide work and phone records to prove they did not kill Caylee. Common sense. jmo

Sadly I think both RK and GA need to be investigated properly.
JB did made a big scene about how the prosecution did NOT get the phone records. It would have confused the issue. JB was not trying to add another murderer theory into the mix. Again his job was to defend. His job was not necessarily to put forward a theory. Adding extensive info on RK would have confused the jury if you went into any further detail. The most important information was that he messed with the remains bringing reasonable doubt to the evidence.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Ya know how desperate the DT was in connecting poor George...there super duper PIs were ready to crucify him with Vasco Thompson. Now that was pathetic.

I was wondering when that name was going to come up! :floorlaugh:

 

[Intermezzo]

They stated right in the trial that this was never done. The prosecution did not get RK's phone records or work records. They did not even get GA's phone records or work records.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141795"]Transcript of 6/24/11 argument - phone records - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[pcrum12]

What solid evidence was there besides one single strand of hair that could have easily fallen off of CA into the trunk after she held her dead baby?

If the body was in the trunk, so carefully wrapped up... why were there no fibres from the laundry bag found in the car?

If the body had been in the trunk for a whole month decomp fluid should have leaked onto the trunk carpet. No blood and no DNA found?

no one ever said the body was in trunk for a month -- only 1-3 days. fwiw.

 

[LambChop]

They stated right in the trial that this was never done. The prosecution did not get RK's phone records or work records. They did not even get GA's phone records or work records.

Here you go:

HHJBP: Mr. Baez, you said there were some discovery violations you wanted to talk about?

JB: Yes, sir. Detective Yuri Melich testified that he obtained phone records for Mr. Roy Kronk from June 2008 til December 2008. We have only received, I believe, 2 weeks of cell phone records for Mr. Roy Kronk, which I believe are June 16th through July. June 1st, excuse me. We don’t have the rest, and I consider this a major violation if in fact Mr. Melich was testifying truthfully. He also testified that he had the phone records of George Anthony during that time period. We don’t have those as well – or any of the other Anthony family members. I’m quite shocked to hear this information; and would request to find out if this is actually true; and inquire by the State if they have made inquiries on this topic – and where these phone records are.

HHJBP: State, any response?

LDB: My speculation is that the records that they may be looking are contained on the disks of information that they have been provided. However, it is my understanding that Counsel has subpoenaed all of Mr. Kronk’s records, asked for a Court order and had Mr. Kronk’s lawyer responded to the request for the subpoena and the court placed some parameters on that to avoid a fishing expedition. Nevertheless, I will inquire of Detective Melich if there are items in his possession that are not what was turned over to us. He and I spent a great deal of time going through his file and comparing it to what I already had and had turned over. So, I will do that. This is the first I’m hearing from Mr. Baez that he believes there is something missing.

As it relates to this allegation about the Anthony’s phone records, HE provided those – he Mr. Baez – provided those to ME. So, if there is something in addition to that that he thinks Detective Melich has based on the testimony then he and I can speak about that; but, I believe ultimately Detective Melich said he testified, or Detective Melich testified that he received HOME phone records of the Anthonys, but we can certainly compare. I am unaware of any intentional discovery violations, but I can continue to work with Mr. Baez to compare information.

HHJBP: Anything else Mr. Baez?

JB: I know we tried to get the cell phone records, but if the… I fully accept that… If Ms. Drain-Burdick can double check; and, then we would obviously have to recall the detective to set him straight.

HHJBP: Well, you talk about there was some Court order with Mr. Kronk’s record, I guess, that predated me?

JB: Yes.

LDB: It must have. I know that he had asked for records from a lot of individuals. Many of them had lawyers. They had a full-blown hearing about the scope of any subpoenas, so – yes.

JB: I….

HHJBP: The Rules of Discovery contemplate a couple of things; it contemplates that the State provides – 1. things that are in their possession that they intend to, perhaps, utilize in trial; reports of experts; and things of that nature. There is something besides the Rules of Discovery called Brady vs. Maryland, which you file a motion. At least on three occasions that I can remember asking for Brady material, which requires that the State provide any information that may be exculpatory to the Defendant. The rules also provide that you have the right to subpoena certain records on your own, and it looks as though you may have subpoenaed phone records. I don’t recall the State trying to introduce anyone’s phone records that they did not give to you. And… So that wasn’t an issue during the trial. The only issue would be if those records were exculpatory, which I cannot say since I’m not familiar with the records – and the State hid them. Uh – the bottom line is if you need records, try to get them; but it’s a little late in the day to be going after red herrings. But, if they are exculpatory things, then you know what happens when they’re exculpatory. So…. That’s all I’m going to say.

HHJBP: Anything else we need to take up?

 

[logicalgirl]

Sadly I think both RK and GA need to be investigated properly.
JB did made a big scene about how the prosecution did NOT get the phone records. It would have confused the issue. JB was not trying to add another murderer theory into the mix. Again his job was to defend. His job was not necessarily to put forward a theory. Adding extensive info on RK would have confused the jury if you went into any further detail. The most important information was that he messed with the remains bringing reasonable doubt to the evidence.

They were. Both the LE and the DT had three long years to accomplish that. Despite all the dirt the DT attempted to throw at RK, the hero who found this dead baby, nothing stuck. See fisties from Baez....

 

[RR0004]

Sadly I think both RK and GA need to be investigated properly.
JB did made a big scene about how the prosecution did NOT get the phone records. It would have confused the issue. JB was not trying to add another murderer theory into the mix. Again his job was to defend. His job was not necessarily to put forward a theory. Adding extensive info on RK would have confused the jury if you went into any further detail. The most important information was that he messed with the remains bringing reasonable doubt to the evidence.

He did the same with TES...and did he use any of it? Where was LB? There was so much spaghetti thrown who woulda thunk that it'd get stuck to the heads of 12 jurors from Pinellas County?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Sadly I think both RK and GA need to be investigated properly.
JB did made a big scene about how the prosecution did NOT get the phone records. It would have confused the issue. JB was not trying to add another murderer theory into the mix. Again his job was to defend. His job was not necessarily to put forward a theory. Adding extensive info on RK would have confused the jury if you went into any further detail. The most important information was that he messed with the remains bringing reasonable doubt to the evidence.

Investigated for what? Caylee's death?? I don't think so. Caylee's death was solved a long time ago. They had her murderer sitting in the Orange County jail since October 14th, 2008 and she was released based on the decision of 12 people who got it wrong. Really wrong!

 

[Intermezzo]

Here you go:

HHJBP: Mr. Baez, you said there were some discovery violations you wanted to talk about?

JB: Yes, sir. Detective Yuri Melich testified that he obtained phone records for Mr. Roy Kronk from June 2008 til December 2008. We have only received, I believe, 2 weeks of cell phone records for Mr. Roy Kronk, which I believe are June 16th through July. June 1st, excuse me. We don’t have the rest, and I consider this a major violation if in fact Mr. Melich was testifying truthfully. He also testified that he had the phone records of George Anthony during that time period. We don’t have those as well – or any of the other Anthony family members. I’m quite shocked to hear this information; and would request to find out if this is actually true; and inquire by the State if they have made inquiries on this topic – and where these phone records are.

HHJBP: State, any response?

LDB: My speculation is that the records that they may be looking are contained on the disks of information that they have been provided. However, it is my understanding that Counsel has subpoenaed all of Mr. Kronk’s records, asked for a Court order and had Mr. Kronk’s lawyer responded to the request for the subpoena and the court placed some parameters on that to avoid a fishing expedition. Nevertheless, I will inquire of Detective Melich if there are items in his possession that are not what was turned over to us. He and I spent a great deal of time going through his file and comparing it to what I already had and had turned over. So, I will do that. This is the first I’m hearing from Mr. Baez that he believes there is something missing.

As it relates to this allegation about the Anthony’s phone records, HE provided those – he Mr. Baez – provided those to ME. So, if there is something in addition to that that he thinks Detective Melich has based on the testimony then he and I can speak about that; but, I believe ultimately Detective Melich said he testified, or Detective Melich testified that he received HOME phone records of the Anthonys, but we can certainly compare. I am unaware of any intentional discovery violations, but I can continue to work with Mr. Baez to compare information.

HHJBP: Anything else Mr. Baez?

JB: I know we tried to get the cell phone records, but if the… I fully accept that… If Ms. Drain-Burdick can double check; and, then we would obviously have to recall the detective to set him straight.

HHJBP: Well, you talk about there was some Court order with Mr. Kronk’s record, I guess, that predated me?

JB: Yes.

LDB: It must have. I know that he had asked for records from a lot of individuals. Many of them had lawyers. They had a full-blown hearing about the scope of any subpoenas, so – yes.

JB: I….

HHJBP: The Rules of Discovery contemplate a couple of things; it contemplates that the State provides – 1. things that are in their possession that they intend to, perhaps, utilize in trial; reports of experts; and things of that nature. There is something besides the Rules of Discovery called Brady vs. Maryland, which you file a motion. At least on three occasions that I can remember asking for Brady material, which requires that the State provide any information that may be exculpatory to the Defendant. The rules also provide that you have the right to subpoena certain records on your own, and it looks as though you may have subpoenaed phone records. I don’t recall the State trying to introduce anyone’s phone records that they did not give to you. And… So that wasn’t an issue during the trial. The only issue would be if those records were exculpatory, which I cannot say since I’m not familiar with the records – and the State hid them. Uh – the bottom line is if you need records, try to get them; but it’s a little late in the day to be going after red herrings. But, if they are exculpatory things, then you know what happens when they’re exculpatory. So…. That’s all I’m going to say.

HHJBP: Anything else we need to take up?

JINX Buy you a coke..I posted the Link to the thread...

 

[RR0004]

I think Casey can forget about rehabing her image. IMVHO, that ship has sailed.

 

[natsound]

I was being sarcastic about the hairdresser or insurance guy.

I agree it could have been ANYBODY THAT FOUND THE REMAINS... but it wasn't just anybody... it was the Anthony's meter reader.... and that is quite a coincidence.

I fail to see where that's a suspicious coincidence. Weren't there many, many more coincidences that tie KC to the death of Caylee?

 

[LambChop]

I think Casey can forget about rehabing her image. IMVHO, that ship has sailed.

We keep this up we could very well uncover that missing link we need. Too late to send her back to jail but it would be nice to remove all doubt. It's funny in a way because all KC has to do is tell the truth and there would be no reason for any thread on CMA to continue, but she refuses to do that.

For all those people KC has thanked as friends remember her last bestest, going to live together, friend ever was AH and what KC did to her. Remember the words spoken.....trust no one, only yourself........ Words KC loves to live by. As a friend be aware....you're up next. lol

 

[RR0004]

We keep this up we could very well uncover that missing link we need. Too late to send her back to jail but it would be nice to remove all doubt. It's funny in a way because all KC has to do is tell the truth and there would be no reason for any thread on CMA to continue, but she refuses to do that.

For all those people KC has thanked as friends remember her last bestest, going to live together, friend ever was AH and what KC did to her. Remember the words spoken.....trust no one, only yourself........ Words KC loves to live by. As a friend be aware....you're up next. lol

Was that website for real? Casey has friends?

 

[RR0004]

I fail to see where that's a suspicious coincidence. Weren't there many, many more coincidences that tie KC to the death of Caylee?

"How to Make Chloroform" and high levels of it in the trunk of CASEY'S car comes to mind.

 

[natsound]

that is why I dont believe it was ever a search to find out what it was. if you want to do that, you head your little self over to dictionary.com

while researching some plants I might like to grow a few days ago, I noted that a great many plants I was interested in were from the family Solanaceae (these are the nightshade plants, which aside from nightshade itself include tomato, potato, peppers, tobacco, etc, as I seem to have a pure true love for most plants in this family LOL)

anywaaaays as you might note I was thorough in my research, so thorough that I landed on some page or another that noted if one ingests poisonous nightshade plants, if one manages not to fatally dose oneself, one has a hallucinogenic trip from hell.

what! I exclaimed. no one would be that stupid!!

a little more google tells me some people are indeed that "adventurous".

even to ingesting nightshade!! crazy!!

my WHOOOOOLLLEE point is this: when I learned all that, I did not then google "how to make tinctures of (belladonna, datura, whatever)" I googled something more like "what happens during human poisoning of (belladonna, datura, whatever)".

the rest of OCA's google searches surrounding the "how to make" search dont really support her wondering what it was.

*note: I also learned that iboga appears to completely clear opiate addictions with very few doses.

Exactly. It is no stretch to think that KC would look up "how to make chloro" unless she WANTED TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT??!! If she had some other explanation, then I would have welcomed it.

I don't know why there's such an effort among some to blame others for what happened to Caylee! I just don't understand it! ALL EVIDENCE POINTS TO KC!!

 

[LambChop]

Was that website for real? Casey has friends?

Well, she had Zanny and there was Juliette, Jeff, too. Her boss at Universal, he seemed friendly sending her emails at home. Zanny's roommates, Zanny's sister, Jeff's mother (Casey even got to go to the wedding, I think) so, yes, I think we can say she had friends. Have another mushroom....they're delicious.

I wonder when KC left jail if all the inmates gathered round to wish her well.....yelled..."Bella Vita, Ciao Casey." jmo

 

[natsound]

"How to Make Chloroform" and high levels of it in the trunk of CASEY'S car comes to mind.

Lying and lack of remorse come to mind. Hair with a death band comes to mind. Making excuses for the smell, abandoning the car come to mind.

 

[Hope4More]

Was that website for real? Casey has friends?

FCA's friends, on her end, have always been imaginary.

Everyone around her has been/is either a mark for her to exploit, a family member to slander and destroy, or a daughter to murder.

If a handful of sickos are surfacing to suck up to an infamous child murderer, then hey, like attracts like.

 

[LambChop]

Lying and lack of remorse come to mind. Hair with a death band comes to mind. Making excuses for the smell, abandoning the car come to mind.

Renting a movie the night your child goes missing that is about duct taping a man's mouth who has been kidnapped. Maybe we should have sent the jury a list of the co-inky dinks. That may have made more sense to them. lol