Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/15 thru 1/20 Break

[LinasK]

Serious question...If you represent yourself, pro se, can you win an appeal based on ineffective counsel? Meaning your own counsel, not those that the court may have appointed to guide you.

BBM & red by me.
:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: "He who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client".

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln

 

[ElleElle]

"The Court has indicated it's willing to consider creative ways to protect the privacy interest of potential witnesses...If a witness is unwilling to testify voluntarily, the defendant may subpoena that witness to testify to assure the jury has the benefit of the testimony. Alternatively, that testimony could be provided through an affidavit, videotaped statement or the testimony of the mitigation specialist or another witness."

http://ktar.com/305/1800120/Legally-Speaking-What-is-on-tap-next-in-the-Jodi-Arias-case

 

[LambChop]

This is from the first trial testimony of Lisa D.

Martinez asking about the "strange things" that were happening.
--The door to the house Lisa was living in had a security system that rang when the door opened.
--The alarm went off and the door was unlocked.
--Lisa asked Travis to spend the night and Travis did, he spent the night with Lisa because of the incident. At no time did he touch Lisa sexually including her rear end.
--On another day Lisa was at Travis' house and this was around the time of their third breakup. Lisa was in the kitchen with Travis. Somebody came into the house unannounced. It was Jodi. Lisa identifies Jodi in the courtroom.
--Jodi came in through the front door, when she saw Lisa and Travis in the kitchen, Jodi ran out of the house.


This has to be the incident where JA claims she saw him kissing someone on his couch. Lisa's version would be a little bit different then the way JA remembers it. If this is the same incident. Obviously JA was upset because she ran out of the house. jmo

Link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...media-timeline-thread-**no-discussion**/page6 Post #288

 

[mydirtysecret]

Here's my concern, and confusion. Nurmi has made a big issue out of 14 witnesses that are not willing to testify. He has been given numerous way for them to testify, but as far as we know he has done nothing to compel them to testify. From the link below is the definition of ineffective counsel is: Ineffective assistance of counsel at trial and on direct appeal violates the Sixth Amendment right to a fair trial. In analyzing an ineffective assistance of counsel claim, the overriding concern is to determine whether counsel's conduct so undermined the functioning of the adversary process that the trial cannot be relied upon as having produced a just result. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/i083.htm
I know there is a lot going on behind closed doors, but I don't see how it cannot be ineffective counsel if he is given remedies to get the witnesses to testify and he chooses not to.

What you linked is the cliff notes version of the sixth amendment, and ineffective counsel. It's a pretty big hurdle to overcome and then have the convictions reversed. Theres a pretty famous case on a capital crime the defense attorney slept through some proceedings and was taking narcotics and the conviction stood

 

[bsk]

Here's my concern, and confusion. Nurmi has made a big issue out of 14 witnesses that are not willing to testify. He has been given numerous way for them to testify, but as far as we know he has done nothing to compel them to testify. From the link below is the definition of ineffective counsel is: Ineffective assistance of counsel at trial and on direct appeal violates the Sixth Amendment right to a fair trial. In analyzing an ineffective assistance of counsel claim, the overriding concern is to determine whether counsel's conduct so undermined the functioning of the adversary process that the trial cannot be relied upon as having produced a just result. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/i083.htm
I know there is a lot going on behind closed doors, but I don't see how it cannot be ineffective counsel if he is given remedies to get the witnesses to testify and he chooses not to.

How far can the judge push it? Could she say, "I find you in contempt and fine you $1,000/day until you have requested subpoenas for 13 witnesses (not including the Kiwi one). And if they are not completed in two days, the fines will continue and you will be placed in jail until such time as they are completed."

 

[bsk]

A victim of soikumstance and everything else as well. Victim victim victim. Victim. Victim victim. Vic. Tim.

Among a lot of other things, of course, ALV's testimony was embarrassing. We're talking about a grown woman, with plenty of relationship experience, and did I mention a grown woman? We all have our vulnerabilities, difficulties with boundaries, difficulties saying no -- these change over time and in different contexts and that's just part of being alive and yes of course they're different for everyone. And none of that is relevant in this case! (At least not for Jodi. For Travis, I think, yes.) Does ALV actually believe, and expect anyone else to believe, that Jodi's wishy-washiness gave Evil Travis the opening he needed to get her into his evil clutches? To make her his sexual pawn? And to convert her into his wholesome, family-centered religion? Bwahahahahaha?

Darn it. If only Jodi weren't so vulnerable at that particular moment in time. If only she had a clearer set of boundaries, if only she could have stood up for herself. Then she could have said "no" that night and thus would not have started down the twisted, sordid path of debauchery that ultimately forced her to stab Travis almost 30 times, nearly decapitate him, shoot him in the head, leave him in the shower, etc, etc.

(Love the clip, BTW.)

BBM - Not sure how much of her "relationship experience" was personal vs from books, interviews, lectures, etc. Just sayin'...

 

[ohreally]

Serious question...If you represent yourself, pro se, can you win an appeal based on ineffective counsel? Meaning your own counsel, not those that the court may have appointed to guide you.

No, JSS made sure to let her know she can't claim ineffective counsel when Jodi requested to be her own lawyer. I believe that would be only for the time she was her own attorney.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

With Scott Peterson and OJ both, absolutely yes fleeing across the Mexican border. With Jodi, I think it was more likely she was off to kill again, thinking she got away with it. Her possible targets: Mimi, Lisa, Deanna, new girl Brooke, the Hughes's, possibly even Detective Flores.

Mexico. Hidden probably to get through customs. IMO

:seeya: I agree with both of the above ... I'll try to explain:

1st BBM: As LinasK names above, absolutely she would have gone after one or maybe more of the names listed above IF she had not gotten arrested.

JMO but I think the first one on her list was Det. Flores because he did NOT fall for her BS: the "little girly voice," batting her eyes, flinging her hair, etc. JA KNEW that Flores was not buying any of her carp and she was po'd that he did not believe her.

2nd BBM: And yes, I think after she went after one of the named above, she was going to try to flee to Mexico. By that point, everyone knew she was suspect #1, and no one to give her alibi -- oh, I mean no one to "grind on" !

She is one seriously dangerous :silenced:

 

[bsk]

Actually they can. The state has a rebuttal case to present. He can call anyone to counter the defense mitigation claims. Juan could call the witnesses like the mother and father to get hurtful tetsimony out of them knowing the defense would be forced to rebut it but taking the licks anyway. It's an option. A loooong shot option but an option.

It would be absolutely hilarious to see Juan say he wants to add a couple of witnesses from the defense list so he can call them. The DT would scream that it's a stunt for him to try to pull a surprise by adding witnesses long after he provided his witness list, and he should be barred from adding them at the 11th hour like this.

 

[LinasK]

:seeya: I agree with both of the above ... I'll try to explain:

1st BBM: As LinasK names above, absolutely she would have gone after one or maybe more of the names listed above IF she had not gotten arrested.

JMO but I think the first one on her list was Det. Flores because he did NOT fall for her BS: the "little girly voice," batting her eyes, flinging her hair, etc. JA KNEW that Flores was not buying any of her carp and she was po'd that he did not believe her.

2nd BBM: And yes, I think after she went after one of the named above, she was going to try to flee to Mexico. By that point, everyone knew she was suspect #1, and no one to give her alibi -- oh, I mean no one to "grind on" !

She is one seriously dangerous :silenced:

Okay, so kill 'em and then flee to Mexico, kinda like Scott Peterson stopping to play a round of golf before heading to the border.

 

[ohreally]

What you linked is the cliff notes version of the sixth amendment, and ineffective counsel. It's a pretty big hurdle to overcome and then have the convictions reversed. Theres a pretty famous case on a capital crime the defense attorney slept through some proceedings and was taking narcotics and the conviction stood

Please don't get me wrong I don't know that it will win an appeal. It just concerns me that it could.

 

[loveschows]

-

NO WAY Brewer's rendition of the time line is correct.

And Jodi's?? Nebbermind.

here's the year cmja began working at ventana, and also gonna put an article on here by matt who was the head chef while jodi and darryl worked there. its been around the internet, so you may have already read it, but thought id post it anyways


During the fall of 2001, Arias began working as a server at a restaurant located at the Ventana Inn and Spa in Carmel, California



This is a comment that was left on another blog, http://mydeathspace.com/vb/showthre...x-boyfriend-Travis-Alexander-to-death/page577

Facebook posts from a coworker at Ventana gleaned here showing Jodi was volatile:

1. Hello. My name is Matt. I was the Exec. Chef at the time that Jodie Arias was employed at Ventana Inn and Spa in Big Sur and began her relationship with Darryl Brewer. I heard on JVM that Darryl characterized that their relationship began after he was no longer her supervisor. That is a lie. Also, It was also stated on JVM that Jodie did not exhibit any violent behavior that he was aware of. I can… recall a specific incident with other witnesses when she did at Ventana Inn and Spa during her shift.
I bear no malice toward Jodie or Darryl. My objection to their relationship at that time was directly related to how Jodie manipulated the entire restaurant staff after her relationship with Darryl began and Darryl’s culpability and in her manipulative behavior.

As a matter of fact, Darryl was promoted from Restaurant Manager to Food and Beverage Director during their relationship. The GM of the hotel at the time did not see their relationship as a problem despite the empirical evidence to the contrary. Eventually, Darryl did resign the F&B position, He stated his reasoning at the time was due to the amount of time he was spending away from his son. Darryl stayed on as a server for a short time and then, gave notice and left.

more from Matthew Millea
By the time the incident I referred to in my original post occurred, Jodie was well into her relationship with Darryl. Jodie had a disagreement with another server regarding switching her station for the lunch shift this particular day. The other server refused to change their assigned station. Jodie went into the women’s employee bathroom, directly across a hallway from the shared restaurant/kitchen office, slammed the door shut, screamed and kicked a hole in the wall. The other manager and I heard the ruccus and asked if she was alright. She immediately opened the door to the woman’s employee bathroom and was recalcitrant and apologized in her ‘sweetest’ voice. She obviously hadn’t realized that anyone was in the office across the hall. She promised to get the hole in the wall fixed with her own money, etc., etc. The other manager and I had already realized that Jodie, due to her relationship with Darryl, was beyond reproach or reprimand for this or any other incident.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

In reviewing old David Lohr versions, I thought something about tire slashing did get in, but I could be wrong. It was in JA's diaries, so that could have opened the door. I don't recall.

:seeya:

BBM: Correct ... I remember it was in the diaries that were read during this Penalty Phase.

The tires were slashed just a few months before she slaughtered Travis, so no doubt, she slashed the tires.

 

[ElleElle]

This is from the first trial testimony of Lisa D.

Martinez asking about the "strange things" that were happening.
--The door to the house Lisa was living in had a security system that rang when the door opened.
--The alarm went off and the door was unlocked.
--Lisa asked Travis to spend the night and Travis did, he spent the night with Lisa because of the incident. At no time did he touch Lisa sexually including her rear end.
--On another day Lisa was at Travis' house and this was around the time of their third breakup. Lisa was in the kitchen with Travis. Somebody came into the house unannounced. It was Jodi. Lisa identifies Jodi in the courtroom.
--Jodi came in through the front door, when she saw Lisa and Travis in the kitchen, Jodi ran out of the house.


This has to be the incident where JA claims she saw him kissing someone on his couch. Lisa's version would be a little bit different then the way JA remembers it. If this is the same incident. Obviously JA was upset because she ran out of the house. jmo

Right, and the "whoredom" has JA written (pun intended) all over it.

"You are a shameful . Your Heavenly Father must be deeply ashamed of the whoredoms you’ve committed with that insidious man. If you let him stay in your bed one more time or even sleep under the same roof as him, you will be giving the appearance of evil. You are driving away the Holy Ghost, and you are wasting your time. You are also compromising your salvation and breaking your baptismal covenants. Of all the commandments to break, committing acts of whoredom is one of the most displeasing in the eyes of the Lord. You cannot be ashamed enough of yourself. You are filthy, and you need to repent and become clean in the eyes of God. Think about your future husband, and how you disrespect not only yourself, but him, as well as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is that what you want for yourself? Your future, your celebration, and your posterity is resting on your choices and actions. You are a daughter of God, and you have been a shameful example. Be thou clean, sin no more. Heavenly Father loves you and wants you to make the right choices. I know you are strong enough to choose the right. Your Father in Heaven is pulling for you. Don’t ignore the promptings you receive, because they are vital to your spiritual well-being.”

As I mentioned before, I think JA had it in more for Lisa than she did Mimi. She knew Mimi had no real interest in Travis, but Lisa was tops on his list.

JMO

Link to email:

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-ominous-email-sent-by-jodi/

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:seeya:

Don't forget COURT tomorrow, Tuesday Jan 20 !

:waitasec: But then again, ya never know what may happen in this case.

Prediction: Nurmi will begin the day by screaming about something or file another frivolous motion :gaah:

Anyone remember what time it is supposed to start ?

TIA !

 

[LinasK]

Right, and the "whoredom" has JA written (pun intended) all over it.

"You are a shameful . Your Heavenly Father must be deeply ashamed of the whoredoms you’ve committed with that insidious man. If you let him stay in your bed one more time or even sleep under the same roof as him, you will be giving the appearance of evil. You are driving away the Holy Ghost, and you are wasting your time. You are also compromising your salvation and breaking your baptismal covenants. Of all the commandments to break, committing acts of whoredom is one of the most displeasing in the eyes of the Lord. You cannot be ashamed enough of yourself. You are filthy, and you need to repent and become clean in the eyes of God. Think about your future husband, and how you disrespect not only yourself, but him, as well as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is that what you want for yourself? Your future, your celebration, and your posterity is resting on your choices and actions. You are a daughter of God, and you have been a shameful example. Be thou clean, sin no more. Heavenly Father loves you and wants you to make the right choices. I know you are strong enough to choose the right. Your Father in Heaven is pulling for you. Don’t ignore the promptings you receive, because they are vital to your spiritual well-being.”

As I mentioned before, I think JA had it in more for Lisa than she did Mimi. She knew Mimi had no real interest in Travis, but Lisa was tops on his list.

JMO

Link to email:

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-ominous-email-sent-by-jodi/

The problem is, we don't know who she was the most pissed at, she didn't leave a numbered list. I'm guessing Mimi, since her name was on the airline ticket, but it also could've been the new girl he mentioned Brooke, Lisa, Deanna, the Hughes's, or Det. Flores. Could've been any or all of the above. When would she have stopped her killing spree and fled?

 

[Truth Detector]

She can't claim ineffective counsel, she herself was appointed as her own attorney c twice in the case. She'd never make it past the motion. It'd be denied so fast her motion probably wouldn't even have time for the ink to dry.

BBM

In most any other courtroom...

 

[ElleElle]

How far can the judge push it? Could she say, "I find you in contempt and fine you $1,000/day until you have requested subpoenas for 13 witnesses (not including the Kiwi one). And if they are not completed in two days, the fines will continue and you will be placed in jail until such time as they are completed."

I'm Canadian therefore never really studied American law except for some high-profile cases and ID Channel.

But, is it really up to the judge to do the DTs legwork? I mean, come on, she has given them "creative" options. It's not like she is not doing her best to accommodate.

 

[LinasK]

:seeya:

Don't forget COURT tomorrow, Tuesday Jan 20 !

:waitasec: But then again, ya never know what may happen in this case.

Anyone remember what time it is supposed to start ?

TIA !

Keep your eyes open for a cast or a wrist brace!!! Or expect a migraine...

 

[ElleElle]

BBM - Not sure how much of her "relationship experience" was personal vs from books, interviews, lectures, etc. Just sayin'...

And her "bias" opinion on personal relationships.

JMO