Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 12/19-1/5 Break

[Katharine]

My questioning the date of the pics is twofold, first they don't make any sense given the context(TA's 3 hole wonder words and JA's scissor letter, plus whatever had caused it all to come to that, both apparently have a history of parting amicably with their ex's) and then the evidence as stated from:
http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Detective-Flores-Investigation-Report.pdf
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Notwithstanding the personal opinion given as fact that TA had been posing for the shower pics, just what did DetM have to do to recover these unallocated(note they weren't included in his initial statement of having been deleted by the camera, just that they were on the memory card) pics? Could it have made the date from having recovered the shower pics somehow also transfer onto the "unallocated" photo shoot pics, especially if they hadn't had a date stamp on them previously(like most of JA's pics never had) and had possibly been loaded into the camera memory when the memory card/stick had been inserted to take the shower pics?

This whole day (June 4, 2008) drives me nutso. All of these speculations (and it is what it is...speculations) cause one to think all these different ways of how the day had gone and still not come up with a solid end proven result(s). We are probably missing parts of the story (evidence not permitted at the trial). I have always had a hard time too understanding why Travis would do a sex video or nude photos of each other on that day due to how he truly felt about her unless caught up in the moment and knowing this was his new camera and he had total control over these. And we are still wondering did he pose in the shower especially knowing his privacy issue during a shower (of course this is only due to she said it was). I so hope some of our questions will be answered even though many will never be known.

 

[ICit]

My questioning the date of the pics is twofold, first they don't make any sense given the context(TA's 3 hole wonder words and JA's scissor letter, plus whatever had caused it all to come to that, both apparently have a history of parting amicably with their ex's) and then the evidence as stated from:
http://cdn-static.wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Detective-Flores-Investigation-Report.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------
View attachment 66360
--------------------------------------------------------------
Notwithstanding the personal opinion given as fact that TA had been posing for the shower pics, just what did DetM have to do to recover these unallocated(note they weren't included in his initial statement of having been deleted by the camera, just that they were on the memory card) pics? Could it have made the date from having recovered the shower pics somehow also transfer onto the "unallocated" photo shoot pics, especially if they hadn't had a date stamp on them previously(like most of JA's pics never had) and had possibly been loaded into the camera memory when the memory card/stick had been inserted to take the shower pics?

Remember in the interview when she drew pictures for Flores of her camera card and Travis's camera card. She went on and on about how she had one in her storage locker in a broken camera that was the same size. I do remember seeing once a photo of the camera and TWO camera cards in an evidence photo. I think she moved the photos from her card to Travis's camera. There was something that looked like blood, but was not tested, on the cord to his computer.
This would account for the nude pictures all being thumbnails and the lighting being so different on photos of her (really good), versus photos of him which were poorly lighted and blurry. There was also something about the dates not being on the photos and her telling Flores that the dates could be altered or added. I think the photos of her were taken on a different day than the photos of Travis. He looks drugged in his photos.

 

[ICit]

Awhile ago, in 'post verdict -working out the unresolved questions' thread, we talked about the possibility that Travis may not have bothered to set his Sony with the correct time zone after purchasing it. And now with the new issue regarding porn-watching/virus activity on June 4, 2008, I thought I'd go back to that thread and take another look at what I wrote in Jan 2014.


"Known facts plus a bit of assumption:
Per Flores report, on June 4, Zach came home 3 PM - 4 PM then goes back to girlfriend's house to clean and returns 9 PM. I'm assuming he spent June 3 night - June 4 morning at girlfriend's house for house sitting.
Per Flores report, on June 4, Enrique left home some time in the morning and returns home around 6- 6: 30PM.
Actual time stamps on evidence pictures: Nude pictures start at 1:42 PM. Shower pictures start at 5:22 PM.
Last activities on laptop: 3:34 PM per Martinez direct to Manendez, 4:54 PM per Wilmott cross, 4:19 PM per Flores report.

If I assume the camera time is behind 1 hour:
Nude picture start at 2:42 PM.
Shower picture starts at 6:22 PM.
Not possible because Enrique came home 6 - 6:30 PM.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 1 hour:
Nude pictures start at 12:42 PM.
Shower pictures start at 4:22 PM.
Maybe possible : texts Hughes around noon ok, avoids Zach being home 3-4 PM, but 4:19 pm usage on laptop is so close to shower pictures and need to assume Jodi used his laptop after killing.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 2 hours:
Nude pictures start at 11:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 3:22 PM.
Not possible because of Zach

If I assume the camera time is ahead 3 hours:
Nude pictures start at 10:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 2:22 PM.
Possible, but Jodi had to stay quiet when Zach is home 3-4 PM. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 4 hours:
Nude pictures start at 9:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 1:22 PM.
Possible. Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

If I assume the camera time is ahead 5 hours:
Nude pictures start at 8:42 AM.
Shower pictures start at 12:22 PM.
Possible, Need to assume Jodi used the laptop.

Because of phone activity around noon with Hughes, the camera time cannot be off more than 5 hours ahead.

My conclusion : Many different scenarios can be gleaned if we assume Travis's camera time was off."

It becomes more mysterious and interesting if we assume that they did not have sex or took nude pictures on that day.

What if the time on the camera was set to pm By accident or she reset it when she got there? All of this could have taken place when Travis got up that morning and got in his shower. She snooped so much that she knew his habits. She could have come out of the closet, a place where he had found her hiding before. Then she would have had all day for clean up, messing with his computer and replying to or sending the text to Chris.

 

[ICit]

What if the time on the camera was set to pm By accident or she reset it when she got there? All of this could have taken place when Travis got up that morning and got in his shower. She snooped so much that she knew his habits. She could have come out of the closet, a place where he had found her hiding before. Then she would have had all day for clean up, messing with his computer and replying to or sending the text to Chris.

I also have a hard time believing that Travis did not make or receive other phone calls and texts all day long. Just the one text from Chris that SOMEONE answered with a text? He was regimented. He made an index card daily of things he needed to accomplish. Remember that he was going to call Steven? What else was on that card to do that day? I have never believed he had sex with her that day. In fact, I believe that 99 percent of their encounters were made up in JA's "fruitful imagination". He was nothing but another "mark" for her. Someone she could live off of and extort money from when things went sour.
Her "magical thinking" is what she wrote about in her journal. And the sex tapes? I believe he was drugged when they were made, if they were not just manufactured with some computer program.

 

[daisydomino]

Remember in the interview when she drew pictures for Flores of her camera card and Travis's camera card. She went on and on about how she had one in her storage locker in a broken camera that was the same size. I do remember seeing once a photo of the camera and TWO camera cards in an evidence photo. I think she moved the photos from her card to Travis's camera. There was something that looked like blood, but was not tested, on the cord to his computer.
This would account for the nude pictures all being thumbnails and the lighting being so different on photos of her (really good), versus photos of him which were poorly lighted and blurry. There was also something about the dates not being on the photos and her telling Flores that the dates could be altered or added. I think the photos of her were taken on a different day than the photos of Travis. He looks drugged in his photos.

They are bad photos. There were no drugs found in his body.

 

[Dmacky]

I just happened to see something about Marissa Devault today on google. I decided to read it, mainly out of curiosity. I did not follow her trial. The only knowledge I had of her at all was that she had used a hammer to kill her husband.
OMG ~ my head is spinning. They are using the very same defense :thinking:

1. Maricopa county, Arizona

2. She was arrested just 6 months after JA

3. They were in general population together until JA was convicted. They were together 4 years (?) My math is not noteworthy :giggle:

4. Both of them used "self defense" and both said they were "victims" of
abuse.

5. The psychologist for the defense testified that MD was physically and sexually abused as a child ... >> JA's secret testimony????

6. Dr. Demarte was the psychologist for prosecution and says MD is a psychopath.

PLUS I'll bet that JA got her info about the child pornography from Marissa!!!

** on a side note and ironically, they both had a man with the last name "Flores" in their cases. Two VERY DIFFERENT men, might I add. The ONLY thing these guys have in common are their last names.


http://murderpedia.org/female.D/d/devault-marissa.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dale_Harrell

 

[geevee]

Did we ever realize that Zach said he noticed the banister being cleaned when he was home between 3:00 and 4:00 and not when he got back at 9:00?

 

[ICit]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. IF the photos were taken long before the day of his death and then put on his camera that day THEN it is possible that she drugged him one time, early on, and took the nude photos of him. I think she could have given him a rufie (sp.?) so she could get something to blackmail him with.

This post is in response to post number 645.

 

[daisydomino]

Yes Elle, you're correct that I have grave doubts about the nudes having been taken that afternoon (and yes also that as far as we're told they were all on the same memory card), for one thing the nudes were recovered from the unallocated space and the only part recoverable was the thumbnail file, EnCase supplied the time and date according to the memory card, not EXIF data in the picture information. I think they were on that memory card from earlier (whenever they had the poprocks and tootsie pop party) and were deleted and overwritten at least once, if not more.

Just from the perspective of the camera it seems she was taking all of them, hers with a timer and his by her hiding by the side of the bed. I wish we had testimony of what purse she had with her on the 4th because in 1:47:15 once the bacground is lightened you can see her purse in the background, that may (or may not) aid in knowing for sure when they were taken. The pics with her are very dark yet her hair doesn't look all dark brown, the pics of Travis are much lighter and were supposedly taken during the same hour. And now knowing that there was Spybot activity on his laptop at the same time the pics were being taken pretty much seals the deal for me.

I even have questions about the shower pics all being taken at the same time, look where the red arrow is on each pic, in 5:24:30 there's something on the shelf, in 5:24:56 you can see the shelf behind him (with nothing on it) but not as clearly as 5:25:00 where whatever it is is mysteriously gone:

View attachment 66355

I have wonderings if she/they used this card before and she brought it with her on the killing day, I can't take anything she says at face value but the way she popped out to Flores with 'those pics were all on my camera' does give me great pause about the authenticity of the timestamps on the nudes.

P.S. I never take your questions/comments as snark, I like your forthrightness (if that's a proper word lol).

Whatever is on that little shelf was hidden by the stuff hanging when the viewpoint moved to the viewer's right. Parallax. Someone posted a lamp photo with a similar issue. The viewpoint was so low (on the surface of the bed, I think) that the items behind Travis' head were hidden. No mystery.

I think Mesa PD crime scene investigators have done a good job. There is tons and tons of physical evidence to prove that only Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. She was found guilty of murder in the first degree. There is no need to keep looking for proof.

That said, when we can see better photos it will be interesting. We're looking at (at least) third or fourth generation copies of the original digital images—printed out, projected, video streamed, screen capped, and who knows how else reproduced. The police detectives and the prosecution have the images directly off the computer forensic examiner's disk.

 

[daisydomino]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. IF the photos were taken long before the day of his death and then put on his camera that day THEN it is possible that she drugged him one time, early on, and took the nude photos of him. I think she could have given him a rufie (sp.?) so she could get something to blackmail him with.

This post is in response to post number 645.

You are welcome to speculate, but I maintain that you cannot tell from a photo that someone has been drugged. It's a bad photo. He looks like he wasn't ready for the shutter.

 

[LambChop]

Also because of her cell phone pinging when she turned it on after leaving Arizona LE knows exactly what time JA left the house. jmo

 

[WhoaIsMe]

I thought some of you might find this article interesting http://www.livescience.com/13083-cr...pr=30478646760&cmpid=514627_20141226_37553677

 

[Katharine]

Remember in the interview when she drew pictures for Flores of her camera card and Travis's camera card. She went on and on about how she had one in her storage locker in a broken camera that was the same size. I do remember seeing once a photo of the camera and TWO camera cards in an evidence photo. I think she moved the photos from her card to Travis's camera. There was something that looked like blood, but was not tested, on the cord to his computer.
This would account for the nude pictures all being thumbnails and the lighting being so different on photos of her (really good), versus photos of him which were poorly lighted and blurry. There was also something about the dates not being on the photos and her telling Flores that the dates could be altered or added. I think the photos of her were taken on a different day than the photos of Travis. He looks drugged in his photos.

I know she said all this stuff at her interview but she still could have been trying to come up with excuses at this particular time for the recovery of these photos which in her view point would be an attempt to throw LE off. My question would be why would she put pictures from former times on Travis' new camera, what would be the reason/purpose for this on this fateful day. Did she really think that far ahead in the days before June 4, 2008? She yes can premeditate certain aspects of that day but not the entire day. The shower scene could easily have been premeditated due to the Psycho movie. One would have to assume that she intended for Travis' new camera to be found with photographs even though many of them had been purposely deleted. Why take the time to delete photographs? She may have begun deleting them and then gave up as the process was taking so long (her time was severely limited with the roommate coming home at any time). She may have decided to just take the camera with her and in the hurry the camera by accident went into the washer. The photographs were awful in terms of "good" photography shooting. Travis messed up her time situation with getting out of the shower which resulted in a very bloody scene. The roommate was due home between 6 am and 6:30 am and she now faced hurry up time that was not in her premeditation scenario. Just some of the things I wonder/ponder about.

 

[RickshawFan]

I just happened to see something about Marissa Devault today on google. I decided to read it, mainly out of curiosity. I did not follow her trial. The only knowledge I had of her at all was that she had used a hammer to kill her husband.
OMG ~ my head is spinning. They are using the very same defense :thinking:

1. Maricopa county, Arizona

2. She was arrested just 6 months after JA

3. They were in general population together until JA was convicted. They were together 4 years (?) My math is not noteworthy :giggle:

4. Both of them used "self defense" and both said they were "victims" of
abuse.

5. The psychologist for the defense testified that MD was physically and sexually abused as a child ... >> JA's secret testimony????

6. Dr. Demarte was the psychologist for prosecution and says MD is a psychopath.

PLUS I'll bet that JA got her info about the child pornography from Marissa!!!

** on a side note and ironically, they both had a man with the last name "Flores" in their cases. Two VERY DIFFERENT men, might I add. The ONLY thing these guys have in common are their last names.


http://murderpedia.org/female.D/d/devault-marissa.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dale_Harrell

Yes, evidently JA and MD are jailhouse BFF's. They seem to have collaborated on defense strategy.

MD's defense psychologist doesn't seem to have been available for JA. Wouldn't stoop quite that low, perhaps?

Now that Dr. Demarte has the MD case under her belt—where she didn't hesitate to use the psychopath diagnosis—maybe we'll see an even more forthright Dr. Demarte on the stand in JA Penalty Trial #2. Yippeeeeeee!

 

[TexMex]

Obviously her plan was to have no evidence of her being in AZ. So she deletes every photo she/they took June 4. The point was to kill Travis with no paper trail of her being in AZ...no gas receipts, no debit card used, no cell phone pings, no pics left on the camera. She only switched her "I was nowhere near Mesa" story to the "ninjas" story when Flores shows her pics the crime lab was able to recover of her on Travis's bed with her new hair color at 1:44 and pics of him posing for shower pics at 5:30pm ...time she could not otherwise account for. Juan has the timeline nailed down.

 

[Spool]

I just happened to see something about Marissa Devault today on google. I decided to read it, mainly out of curiosity. I did not follow her trial. The only knowledge I had of her at all was that she had used a hammer to kill her husband.
OMG ~ my head is spinning. They are using the very same defense :thinking:

1. Maricopa county, Arizona

2. She was arrested just 6 months after JA

3. They were in general population together until JA was convicted. They were together 4 years (?) My math is not noteworthy :giggle:

4. Both of them used "self defense" and both said they were "victims" of
abuse.

5. The psychologist for the defense testified that MD was physically and sexually abused as a child ... >> JA's secret testimony????

6. Dr. Demarte was the psychologist for prosecution and says MD is a psychopath.

PLUS I'll bet that JA got her info about the child pornography from Marissa!!!

** on a side note and ironically, they both had a man with the last name "Flores" in their cases. Two VERY DIFFERENT men, might I add. The ONLY thing these guys have in common are their last names.


http://murderpedia.org/female.D/d/devault-marissa.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dale_Harrell

Thank you for linking these insightful articles. The parallels are very provocative.

 

[krkrjx]

http://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=aulr&seiredir=1&referer=http%3A//www.google.com/search?q=arizona+v+defense+counsel+intentionally+created+error+at+trial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A//www.google.com/search?q=arizona+v+defense+counsel+intentionally+created+error+at+trial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#search="arizona v defense counsel intentionally created error trial"

More from the above citation:

"Are defense attorneys deliberately providing ineffective representation at the penalty phase of capital trials? Two judges on the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit recently suggested that they should—if they want to keep their clients off death row. In a concurring opinion in Poindexter v. Mitchell, a habeas corpus appeal decided in 2006, Sixth Circuit Chief Judge Danny Boggs identified a scenario in which intentional errors by counsel
may benefit death-eligible defendants.

Boggs opined that a defense attorney trying a capital case is likely to secure the reversal of any death sentence that the jury might return if he or she deliberately conducts an inadequate investigation into his or her client’s troubled childhood, psychological problems, or other mitigating evidence that might otherwise have been presented at sentencing. The probability of eventual reversal on ineffective assistance grounds, Boggs wrote, will more than make up for any greater chance that a jury that does not hear the missing material will arrive at a death sentence in the first place. While Judge Boggs stopped short of accusing defense attorneys of employing these tactics, his colleague Judge Richard Suhrheinrich was not so restrained.

In his own concurring opinion in Poindexter, Suhrheinrich intimated that defense attorneys in capital cases actually were sowing ineffective assistance claims of the sort described by his colleague."

Any deliberate attempt to be ineffective as counsel in hope of getting a verdict or sentence overturned on appeal is probably illegal or at least discouraged, and yet I believe it happens a lot more often than any attorney, judge or other court officials will admit.

 

[5bigfish5]

I thought some of you might find this article interesting http://www.livescience.com/13083-cr...pr=30478646760&cmpid=514627_20141226_37553677

I doubt Einstein would EVER admit anything is wrong with her brain.

It's the STUPID camera's fault, It's Alexander's fault.............................

She's perfect.

 

[pocketaccent]

What if the time on the camera was set to pm By accident or she reset it when she got there? All of this could have taken place when Travis got up that morning and got in his shower. She snooped so much that she knew his habits. She could have come out of the closet, a place where he had found her hiding before. Then she would have had all day for clean up, messing with his computer and replying to or sending the text to Chris.

Did we ever realize that Zach said he noticed the banister being cleaned when he was home between 3:00 and 4:00 and not when he got back at 9:00?

View attachment 66398

Another possibility is that the camera was on its default time GMT +0. That makes sex photos at 6:42 AM, and shower photos at 10:22 AM.
Per Flores report, Enrique said Travis told him he had only 45 minutes sleep on the morning of June 4th.
This scenario makes so much more sense to me. JA arrives around 3-4 AM, waits for Enrique to leave, have sex (assuming they had sex), naps a little, kills Travis while he was taking shower around 10:30 AM. She would be the one who texted Hughes around noon. This timeline also gives her more time to clean herself up, place Travis back in the shower, delete pictures, do laundry, eat, use his laptop, clean banister, etc. She spent some time in his office going through his laptop in the afternoon, so the 'i brought 2 cds' story was born.
I think Det Melendez testified the Sony camera couldn't take pictures any more when found. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). That means he couldn't verify if the time on the camera was correctly set or not.

 

[mydirtysecret]

I know she said all this stuff at her interview but she still could have been trying to come up with excuses at this particular time for the recovery of these photos which in her view point would be an attempt to throw LE off. My question would be why would she put pictures from former times on Travis' new camera, what would be the reason/purpose for this on this fateful day. Did she really think that far ahead in the days before June 4, 2008? She yes can premeditate certain aspects of that day but not the entire day. The shower scene could easily have been premeditated due to the Psycho movie. One would have to assume that she intended for Travis' new camera to be found with photographs even though many of them had been purposely deleted. Why take the time to delete photographs? She may have begun deleting them and then gave up as the process was taking so long (her time was severely limited with the roommate coming home at any time). She may have decided to just take the camera with her and in the hurry the camera by accident went into the washer. The photographs were awful in terms of "good" photography shooting. Travis messed up her time situation with getting out of the shower which resulted in a very bloody scene. The roommate was due home between 6 am and 6:30 am and she now faced hurry up time that was not in her premeditation scenario. Just some of the things I wonder/ponder about.

This is exactly why I can't buy into the theory that the photos came from another time. When she premeditated the murder, her plan was so obvious that she was never there and hasnt been since april, he purchased this camera after that. This singular piece of evidence is the Achilles heel of her entire plan. Why would Jodi arias leave this evidence wrapped up in a bow to convict her. It doesn't make sense, because it just didn't happen. Those photos were taken that day.