Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 12/19-1/5 Break

[Madeleine74]

You continue to say you KNOW certain things. You do NOT. AZL also said the politicians in Arizona could change things. Heck, it could be changed next year, you don't know. Nor can you be certain JSS would give her LWOP. And yes a parole board could seriously consider her for release because they release convicted murderers all the time across our nation and the killers kill again. You do NOT know where she will bein 25 years. I can debate with you forever, but why would I want to continue this with you? This is insane. No thanks.

You're right, there is no debate. Until or unless there is evidence, Arias is only guilty of killing 1 person. Until or unless the politicians change the laws, there is no parole available in AZ for those convicted with life sentences.

For the Arias case specifically I'll go with what AZ Lawyer has shared, given her many years of law practice and professional observation, and that is that Arias is not likely to ever see the light of freedom even IF the judge gives her LWPP (and that alone is a big if). If she's given 25 years to life, in 25 years she'll be in prison (or maybe dead from some disease) hoping to get out, but not out yet. That would just be the start to attempting to get parole if there is such a thing in AZ by that time. That's her best-case scenario if everything goes her way. I have no fear of Arias. I also believe she'll remain in prison.

 

[Madeleine74]

Okay folks, let's stop the back and forth. Posters are speculating here and entitled to their opinions. No need to attack another poster and ask for proof when someone posts a belief that they may have. Move on and remember this is the Retrial thread and discussions about the retrial.


Thanks, Lambchop

I believe you've missed the context of the discussion. One or more posters have insisted that Arias could have killed (or even did kill) another human being after she killed Travis. Asking for evidence of a killing is pretty standard stuff.

 

[LambChop]

I believe you've missed the context of the discussion. One or more posters have insisted that Arias could have killed (or even did kill) another human being after she killed Travis. Asking for evidence of a killing is pretty standard stuff.

I did read the post with the quote:

"She managed to hide the stuff she used to kill Travis apparently forever. If she could do that, she could hide a body."

The poster is not saying "she did do it", they are saying "if". That is speculation on the poster's part.

I hope that is clear. Thanks, Lambchop

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The torture murders of Channon Christian and Chris Newsom are one of several that show just pure evil IMO.



http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorio...newsom/they-did-some-really-nasty-things.html

 

[Val1]

Ryan Burns?

Sorry I wasn't clear, no not JA's new prospect, TA's new love interest.

Sorry for being OT, but something has been nagging at me about the journals... granted it's been a few years since I had to worry about birth control but when I did, that was something that would have been one of the major reasons for me to keep a journal, especially given the nature of the relationship that JA would have us believe she had with TA. However, although we certainly seemed to see evidence of some kind of extreme PMS cycle, not once did JA ever broach the subject of getting pregnant or using birth control of any kind. I only recall her even mentioning having a family with TA a couple of times, once in connection with the irises, and one other time that I can't specifically remember and oh perhaps that whole Udi fantasy thing, was that even in the journals....

 

[franquerolane]

But police found condoms in the rental car she had rented just before arrest

 

[daisydomino]

Thanks so much DD, I'm glad to see that someone is asking for Melendez' report, even if it's only the portion pertaining to T's hard drive. I'd dearly love to read the entire thing. Nurmi really needs to lay off the 'let's call the whole thing off' line of thinking, but I blame JSS for not putting her foot down about his endless motions casting blame to the prosecution about *everything*, she gave him an inch and he plans to take the whole of Earth.

I'm curious too. I'd also like to see what Dworkin found in 2012 and then deemed "not " when Juan Martinez reminded him of something he said (and did not repeat on the stand) when he was deposed.

On the other hand, so what? I still am failing to understand how the defense thinks on this laptop is exculpatory evidence and a Brady violation. It's not getting clearer to me as time goes on and more motions pile up.

Are we going to have a ruling next week on the defense's Oct. 1, 2014 motion to dismiss the death penalty? Am I correct that JSS has not ruled on any of these motions to dismiss the death penalty yet?

All the delays and breaks make me nuts. I'm forgetting what's going on. How are the jurors going to manage.

 

[ElleElle]

She managed to hide the stuff she used to kill Travis apparently forever. If she could do that, she could hide a body.

Jodi is not the type of killer who would randomly kill. She needed a reason, and now that Travis was gone, no one else could have him. This is exactly what she wanted.

The weapons found could be because she was making a run to the Mexican border and needed protection. JMO

 

[ElleElle]

Ryan Burns?

No, in Travis' journals. The name is Brooke.

 

[Madeleine74]

She managed to hide the stuff she used to kill Travis apparently forever. If she could do that, she could hide a body.

We don't know if it's forever. No one has found the gun or knife so far, though how extensively anyone's looked I don't know. She didn't hide TA's body, unless one counts inside his shower stall with the door open 'hiding' a body. And she did LE a favor by leaving a bloody palm print on the wall in her victim's blood, her own hair in the bloody bathroom, and pictures of the crime itself being committed. She doesn't strike me as the smartest of killers. She was the first and only suspect, and pretty much led LE right to herself. In fact, if someone asked me I'd describe her as manipulative but dumb. She made really stupid mistakes in her planned murder. Thank goodness.

 

[ElleElle]

Have you seen this? Narcissism at its best. But, no cameras, eh Jodi? This is just more material.

crimefeed.com/2014/12/jodi-arias-selling-courtroom-self-portrait-500/

crimefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Jodi-Arias-self-portrait.jpg

 

[daisydomino]

Have you seen this? Narcissism at its best. But, no cameras, eh Jodi? This is just more material.

crimefeed.com/2014/12/jodi-arias-selling-courtroom-self-portrait-500/

crimefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Jodi-Arias-self-portrait.jpg

Yep yep, we looked at this a while back in the Sidebar. She was made to take it down. This piece is no longer for sale in her murderbilia site.

link:http://i.imgur.com/wBzO9rM.gif

 

[neesaki]

The question is not Arias who? The question is Travis who? This is about Travis. And Jodi would have fit right in with Hitler's list of hit men. So in that vein she is not important but infamous, like Hitler. Hitler told others to kill. She killed Travis all by herself. Yes she is bad and has the same cold blooded killer nature as Hitler. She just hadn't yet killed her other victims on her list. For ONE human being to stab someone 29 times, shoot them and slit their throat, I would say she is a serial killer. There was more than one killing. She has it in her. Don't be fooled. Unimportant to you maybe, but extremely deadly.

:goodpost: I agree, Curious. No doubt if she hasn't killed before, she is a serial killer evolving. If she hadn't been caught when she was it was just a matter of time.

 

[RickshawFan]

We don't know Travis, we know about Travis because of the coverage of his murder in the media. TV and the Internet gives people the feeling like they are right there in the courtroom or in the house of the victim, but that's a false sense of intimacy. Regardless of her motive or anyone's motive, she killed him, she didn't perpetrate this murder against people of the Interwebs, even though some feel that way. That's why I appreciated seeing that documentary about the Inquisition, which put this case right into perspective. Arias is only as important as spectators who make her important.

BTW I actually do (or did when they were still alive) know people who escaped Germany in the 1940's and a couple people whose families were wiped out when the Nazi's sent their parents, aunts, uncles to concentration camps. I remember seeing the tattoo'd number on one person's arm. It was faded but it was still there. Compared to a case of 1 jealous rejected female who killed the guy who rejected her, Arias who?

We don't know if it's forever. No one has found the gun or knife so far, though how extensively anyone's looked I don't know. She didn't hide TA's body, unless one counts inside his shower stall with the door open 'hiding' a body.

My points seem to be getting criticized, but what I said isn't being read very closely? Ummmm.....

I believe you've missed the context of the discussion. One or more posters have insisted that Arias could have killed (or even did kill) another human being after she killed Travis. Asking for evidence of a killing is pretty standard stuff.

There was no insistence: note the subjunctives, conditionals, hedge words, analyses, suggestions, question marks, and tone in the various contributions on this topic...... It is unfortunate that some posts are getting misread. Maybe paying attention to LambChop's point would be beneficial?

 

[RickshawFan]

Sorry I wasn't clear, no not JA's new prospect, TA's new love interest.

Sorry for being OT, but something has been nagging at me about the journals... granted it's been a few years since I had to worry about birth control but when I did, that was something that would have been one of the major reasons for me to keep a journal, especially given the nature of the relationship that JA would have us believe she had with TA. However, although we certainly seemed to see evidence of some kind of extreme PMS cycle, not once did JA ever broach the subject of getting pregnant or using birth control of any kind. I only recall her even mentioning having a family with TA a couple of times, once in connection with the irises, and one other time that I can't specifically remember and oh perhaps that whole Udi fantasy thing, was that even in the journals....

I have been wondering about the birth control thing too. And also about "safe sex." Now that I have made this even more OT, I was wondering if JA's "grab and go" kit included KY, birth control, rubber dams, and condoms. I also think it's odd that KY is the only lubricant that seems ever to be mentioned: no Pink, Please, Sliquid, Astroglide, Wet, Slippery Kitty. No "toys", either. I'm thinking in a lot of ways JA is very conventional: KY is quite fuddy duddy! The other item in this train of thought that surprises me is why JA didn't pretend she was pregnant as a way to snag TA.

 

[neesaki]

Arias the monster is a fictional creature created from hysteria and drama. She's no more evil than Melanie McGuire, Susan Wright, Jessica Riggins, Pamela Smith, or any other female who has brutally killed an intimate partner. I'd say the people who purposely kill children are much worse. Diane Downs, Susan Smith, the Petit family murderers, just to name a few, but there are so many more.

What Arias did is evil and horrible but unfortunately not that uncommon (killing an intimate partner). I feel bad for those who have convinced themselves their lives are in danger from the boogieman...errr...Arias, and are walking around askeered. That's some incredible imagination.

I'm familiar with some but not all of these murderers you have named. And I agree that there's nothing worse than someone who murders children. What comes to mind is Darlie Routier who stabbed her two children to death. She thankfully was convicted and is on death row.

That aside, I don't see how the ultimate level of violence can not be taken into consideration, as that is what tells us what kind of person we are actually dealing with. With CMJA, the murder of Travis was much more vicious than most if not all that I've ever read about. What CMJA did was not just an overreaction or act of passion. It was so much more than that. Not only was it thoroughly premeditated, but what really sets it apart is that it was such an extremely vicious, violent, bloody, and prolonged brutal slaughter of a human being. Which speaks of absolute and utter depravity. That is what we're dealing with here. This killer is no common, run of the mill murderer, and is very dangerous. And then to make it worse, after all of this, she sets out to destroy him, his reputation and his family. Yes. She. Is. A. Monster. IMO.

 

[Madeleine74]

I think she didn't intend the murder to be as bloody as it ended up. Maybe she intended to shoot him first but wasn't able or the gun jammed. She got him in the shower for a reason and intended for him to stay in and die in the shower. The scene shows how much movement there was, which I believe was the consequence of Travis trying to fight back. When Travis didn't die so easily or quickly that's when she went into overkill. The prolonging wasn't that at all, it was Travis trying to move away. The whole thing was about a minute, which was partly her dragging an already dead TA down the hall.

Things rapidly got out of control as the victim's movements can not be reliably predicted. She had no way of knowing how the murder would actually unfold, only what she had imagined, quite different.

Saying she wanted to prolong a killing doesn’t match the evidence or the crime scene. She wanted him dead quickly but he fought back.

She's just a common psycho ex girlfriend type, bent on getting revenge in a classic "If I can't have you then no one can." We've seen this type on Lifetime movies before.

 

[neesaki]

I think she didn't intend the murder to be as bloody as it ended up. Maybe she intended to shoot him first but wasn't able or the gun jammed. She got him in the shower for a reason and intended for him to stay in and die in the shower. The scene shows how much movement there was, which I believe was the consequence of Travis trying to fight back. When Travis didn't die so easily or quickly that's when she went into overkill. The prolonging wasn't that at all, it was Travis trying to move away. The whole thing was about a minute, which was partly her dragging an already dead TA down the hall.

Things rapidly got out of control as the victim's movements can not be reliably predicted. She had no way of knowing how the murder would actually unfold, only what she had imagined, quite different.

Saying she wanted to prolong a killing doesn’t match the evidence or the crime scene. She wanted him dead quickly but he fought back.

She's just a common psycho ex girlfriend type, bent on getting revenge in a classic "If I can't have you then no one can." We've seen this type on Lifetime movies before.

I could come closer to believing this if she hadn't slit his throat from ear to ear, nearly beheading him, which clearly was totally unnecessary, took an immense amount of energy and strength, and could possibly even be perceived as ritualistic. Totally evil. That in itself was over the top, negating the theory that she wanted it done quickly and cleanly. I don't want to argue about it though so I'll let it rest at that, and it is JMO.

 

[katydid23]

When do we go back to the torturous court proceedings? I've lost track.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

I don't think I've ever followed a case where the criminal's post-murder actions/lies are almost as vile as the murder itself. Her pedophilia and abuse allegations, sending flowers and a letter to the victim's grandma, post-verdict interviews, her book club---she provides 'social commentary' and reviews---topics include Christianity, Buddhism, Karma, etc. Did someone say low self-esteem? LOW self-esteem? A grossly inflated sense of self coupled with an inability to feel remorse/empathy...the stuff of nightmares.

Reading her journals illustrates the point Rose222 makes about her activities after the killing. They are chillingly manipulative and sinister. It seems obvious to me that she wrote the last part as an alibi, doctoring, fabricating, rewriting. One obvious clue is how she suddenly learns to spell 'ridiculous'. After misspelling the word continually 'rediculous' - she corrects the error. It is though she is checking for spelling mistakes, knowing her words will be read. The tone of the journals (lots of 'anyways' too) reminds me of that horrible voicemail she sent to Travis after slaughtering him. Arias' misspellings amuse me as I remember how smugly she smirked (Jenifer joined her in the 'joke) when Juan Martinez had written down one word incorrectly. The journals show her sadness. If you didn't know that between being too depressed to move she was slashing tires, stalking Travis and playing to a potential reader audience, it would be easier to feel sympathy for her. she is trying to keep a lid on her murderous rage and monumental anger but dark clues pop up frequently.