Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #3

[newone]

With seven computers and various audio equipment, the small NTSC laboratory dedicated to the AirAsia investigation is split into two rooms; one for the cockpit voice recorder and the other for the flight data recorder.

Analysis of the flight data recorder would take longer, Hananto said, because investigators were examining all 72 previous flights flown by the aircraft.

Investigators hope to finish a preliminary report on the crash early next week. The full report could take up to a year, but will not include the entire cockpit voice transcript.

"In Indonesia it remains undisclosed," said Tatang Kurniadi, chief of the NTSC. "Just some important highlights will be included in the report."

http://www.emirates247.com/news/revealed-airasia-s-final-moments-2015-01-20-1.577268

Also .... "He declined to give details about what was said during the doomed flight's final moments, citing Indonesian law."

would be nice if he could provide the ''citation'' for that law so we could look it up ......:gaah:

 

[SouthAussie]

AirAsia Flight QZ 8501 and Turbulence
Bad Weather vs. Pilot Inputs
Airbus Rudder System

"The Airbus A320 family is . . .susceptible to potentially hazardous rudder pedal inputs at higher airspeeds."


Short article here about other things that have gone wrong with the Airbus family, and with a plane that disappeared in Indonesian airspace.

Mostly wanted to link it here so that we can find it if we need it later for references.

http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/articles/accident-investigation-1/

 

[emirates1957]

I wonder why they would examine 72 previous flights on the FDR flown by this AC. Will check tomorrow.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder why they would examine 72 previous flights on the FDR flown by this AC. Will check tomorrow.

I'm guessing that it is to see if there were similar anomalies (to any they find) in any previous flights, and to see if there were indications of problems arising with the aircraft.

Will be interesting to hear what your puffy-chested engineers say.

 

[newone]

I wonder why they would examine 72 previous flights on the FDR flown by this AC. Will check tomorrow.

Dazzle them with pastries.......your workmates are wonderful.

 

[emirates1957]

I wonder why they would examine 72 previous flights on the FDR flown by this AC. Will check tomorrow.

 

[emirates1957]

I wonder why they would examine 72 previous flights on the FDR flown by this AC. Will check tomorrow.

Whoops double post, and double the lemon tart …….

 

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia AirAsia X had planned to launch nonstop flights between Bali and Melbourne on December 26, aiming to catch Australian travelers who throng the island resort town during the Christmas vacation. However, the carrier didn't launch the flights due to "an unforeseen delay" in getting approvals ....

The long-haul affiliate of AirAsia in Indonesia has been refunding customers who bought tickets for its proposed Bali-Melbourne route as it awaits approval from the Australian regulator to start the flights.

The delay came two days before Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501, flown by Indonesia AirAsia X's shorter-haul sister company, crashed into the Java Sea on December 28, killing all 162 passengers people onboard.

Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority said it hasn't yet made a decision on the airline's application to fly into the country. "We factor in all relevant safety and regulatory information at the time an application is being assessed," a spokesman for the agency said on Monday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...191291171?nk=5490d12ff15507c810aeb3126285360a

 

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia's transport minister proposed a number of changes to improve aviation safety standards at parliamentary hearing on Tuesday, just over three weeks after an AirAsia passenger jet crashed killing all 162 people on board.

Ignasius Jonan told the hearing a number of new rules regarding permits and safety, including health checks for flight crews and air traffic controllers, have been implemented since the crash.

"Now route permits must be obtained 4 months before the flight and airlines will not be allowed to sell tickets before that."

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/tra...changes-to-aviation-rules-after-airasia-crash

 

[SouthAussie]

SINGAPORE, January 20: Indonesian rescuers have brought ashore the fore part of the AirAsia passenger jet that crashed over the Java Sea last December, Suryadi Bambang Supriyadi, operation coordinator at the national search and rescue agency, said on Tuesday.

According to him, local fishermen on Monday night noticed the nose of the liner on the surface, after which the group of searchers towed a fragment of the aircraft on the shore. However, the cabin was not found, he added.

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/772069


In another development, fishermen found the nose of the aircraft off Sembilan Island, search operation chief Suryadi Supriyadi said. A team has been sent to retrieve it.

Search teams are still trying to examine the aircraft's fuselage on the seabed, with the aim of raising it to the surface using a barge equipped with a crane or inflated lifting bags, he said.

http://www.thesundaily.my/news/1302019


Bit odd as this is not in any major Asian or western MSM that I can find, just in Russian MSM and this smaller (I think) Asian MSM.

 

[newone]

hmmm -- thank goodness for the fishermen!

I found in the early days that the Russian paper had best photos too!

 

[Snoods]

[video=twitter;557514486957895681]https://twitter.com/STcom/status/557514486957895681?lang=en[/video]

 

[Snoods]

"In the final minutes, the plane climbed at a speed which was beyond normal," said Transport Minister Ignasius Jonan, citing radar data.

"The plane suddenly went up at a speed above the normal limit that it was able to climb to. Then it stalled," He told reporters.

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...al-then-stalled#sthash.j79XZbBg.CLCL5m7L.dpuf

 

[SouthAussie]

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...al-then-stalled#sthash.j79XZbBg.CLCL5m7L.dpuf

" ...... and are focusing on possible human error or problems with the aircraft."

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...al-then-stalled#sthash.j79XZbBg.1LZppuz9.dpuf


How sad is it going to be if we find out it is yet another ice-related incident?

 

[Hatfield]

The flight deck would have been lit up like a XMAS tree all for the wrong reasons. They would have master caution warnings for just about everything. This indeed would have been harrowing for the crew.

Agree. It must have been very chaotic for the pilots if all the warning lights and alarm sounds started to go off.

I am beginning to wonder if information overload contributes to the pilots not being able to successfully get out of a tough situation. And I wonder if this is an area for improvement for plane manufacturers.

Like lets assume a stall did occur at high altitude. I am guessing the current systems have all kinds of lights and alarms going off at the same time. So wondering instead of that, have a priority system in place where if engine stalls, maybe just have that alarm be the only one blaring to the pilot. So they could concentrate on trying to get the engines restarted.

And maybe have a simple switch that could turn on all alarms and alarm lights if the pilots needed to see everything else. And to switch it back to main problem if they just wanted to see the main issue. And maybe even have it where they could cycle from most important to least important. Just in case issue #2 or #3, etc. is the real reason that needs fixed.

I just wonder if sometimes there is just too much information being provided by the cockpit instruments and it confuses the pilots as to the main thing that needs fixed first. For instance, in a stall, maybe the 2 main things would be to restart engines and attempt to glide the plane without engines.

Maybe the cockpits already have this sort of priority system in place?

I envision like on too many TV shows and movies where the cockpit lights up like a christmas tree and the pilots are despartely trying to figure out what is wrong and wondering if its really like that and if it is, then maybe the cockpit warning systems can be improved by installing a priority system that would only display the top 1,2, etc. issues first. And let the pilots choose if they want to display everything else.

 

[Tssiemer]

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...al-then-stalled#sthash.j79XZbBg.CLCL5m7L.dpuf

Of it flew too high too fast they all could have died instantly right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Boodles]

"In the final minutes, the plane climbed at a speed which was beyond normal," said Transport Minister Ignasius Jonan, citing radar data.


"The plane suddenly went up at a speed above the normal limit that it was able to climb to. Then it stalled," He told reporters.

The weird thing about this quote is that the transport minister cites RADAR. They had radar data all along. What does the flight data recorder tell them? Wouldn't that be far more accurate and telling than radar? Or am I misunderstanding...maybe the FDR contains the radar readings?

I'm seeing "reports" on Twitter that the plane was climbing ~6000 ft/minute. I don't believe that. Is that physically even possible for an A320?

Also, I just have a feeling, JMO, that the fuselage will never be retrieved by Indonesia. I think they're unable or unwilling (or both) and are now just stalling for time before saying "it's too late." Meanwhile it fills up more every day with more silt from the currents. Maybe some private party will retrieve it someday? I feel so bad for the victims' families. I hope I am wrong about this.

 

[Hatfield]

The weird thing about this quote is that the transport minister cites RADAR. They had radar data all along. What does the flight data recorder tell them? Wouldn't that be far more accurate and telling than radar? Or am I misunderstanding...maybe the FDR contains the radar readings?

I'm seeing "reports" on Twitter that the plane was climbing ~6000 ft/minute. I don't believe that. Is that physically even possible for an A320?

Also, I just have a feeling, JMO, that the fuselage will never be retrieved by Indonesia. I think they're unable or unwilling (or both) and are now just stalling for time before saying "it's too late." Meanwhile it fills up more every day with more silt from the currents. Maybe some private party will retrieve it someday? I feel so bad for the victims' families. I hope I am wrong about this.

I agree the flight data recorder should be able to tell them altitude and time so they will be able to get very accurate rate of climb from the data recorder. I dont put much weight into the transport ministers comments until they get the accurate climb rate. The radar is just an estimate to me. The data recorder would be very accurate with 2 measurements (altitude + time). From those 2 things, you can determine rate of climb.

For the fuselage I do think they will be able to retrieve it. There have been large sunken boats that they can surface with air bags so I think it is just a matter of time before they surface it. They do probably need some help from people that have lifted very heavy boats and stuff off the bottom. They had indicated they were trying to get help from the ship that got the tail up. Hopefully they are experienced enough and can get it. If not then there are other countries that could help them do it.

If they cant get a strap to go underneath the plane, then all they have to do is weld metal rings onto the side of the plane to fasten the straps to. They have under water welders who could do that. The only question I have is does Titanium allow welding onto it? Not sure if Titanium is a weldable metal. If not, then they could drill holes into the fuselage and fasten the straps through the holes.
There would be some way to fasten the needed straps.

 

[Boodles]

Well the currents will remain until the end of monsoon season, if I understand correctly, that's April. I'm not sure how you can weld if you can't stay underwater for more than 15 minutes. Maybe in April they will have more luck? I agree they need help.

In the meantime, what remains on the bottom fills up further with silt and/or decomposes.

 

[Hatfield]

Well the currents will remain until the end of monsoon season, if I understand correctly, that's April. I'm not sure how you can weld if you can't stay underwater for more than 15 minutes. Maybe in April they will have more luck? I agree they need help.

In the meantime, what remains on the bottom fills up further with silt and/or decomposes.

Yeah those currents seem to be one of the biggest issues they face. Its surprising to me to have bad currents in such a large body of water. Maybe because of the shallow depth it allows worse currents.

If the currents are their biggest problem then use of a cable retrieve seems to be a better idea than using the air bags because the cable would just be reeled in by the winch on the ship. The cable could hold the plane in place and not let it get moved too much by the currents.

I have been surprised they havent just winched it up by cable by now. The depth is really not that deep considering how deep other oceans are.