Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Stella123]

Ukraine has firepower to fight on without US support – for now​

Dan Sabbagh and Luke Harding in Kyiv
Donald Trump’s decision to halt military aid is, however, likely to mean Ukraine will suffer more casualties at a faster rate

So more people are going to die more quickly because of the US decision to "pause" military aid. Is this a way to bring peace? To allow Putin to win and to allow more people to die and more quickly? JMO

Ukraine has firepower to fight on without US support – for now

Donald Trump’s decision to halt military aid is, however, likely to mean Ukraine will suffer more casualties at a faster rate

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

16m ago00.14 GMT
Protesters gathered at parks, statehouses and other public ground across the country on Tuesday to demonstrate against Donald Trump’s second-term agenda.

The rallies and marches were set in motion by the 50501 Movement, a volunteer-driven group organized in the weeks after Trump’s inauguration.

Here are some images from events scheduled throughout the day.

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People protest against Donald Trump before his address to a joint session of Congress, in Washington, DC. Photograph: Alex Wroblewski/AFP/Getty Images

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Flags fly in the wind during a protest against the Trump administration in Cleveland.Photograph: Sue Ogrocki/AP

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Citizens rally on the Boston Common near the historic Parkman Bandstand, as they call for changes in the policies of Donald Trump in Boston, Massachusetts. Photograph: Cj Gunther/EPA

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People hold up signs to protest the Trump administration in San Francisco. Photograph: Godofredo A Vásquez/AP

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Demonstrators protest the agenda of Donald Trump during a rally and march through downtown in Chicago, Illinois. Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty

Trump touts renewal of rightwing policies in lengthy speech as Democrats jeer, protest and walk out – as it happened

Trump praises Elon Musk and defends trade wars; Democratic congressman Al Green was removed from chamber for early disruption to Trump’s speech

www.theguardian.com

 

[statt#1]

Imagine NATO losing 2/3 of it's funding....provided to all Europeans at the U.S. taxpayer's expense.

"The US is a global superpower, with military commitments around the world, not just to Nato. It had GDP equal to all the rest of the members of Nato in 2024, and its spending on defence is two thirds of the Nato total."

How much do Nato members spend on defence?

Nato expects 23 of its 32 members to have met the target of spending 2% of GDP on defence in 2024.

www.bbc.com

 

[UK Girl]

MSN

 

[statt#1]

Lot's of data here, including polling on Ukraine.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/HHP_Feb2025_vFinal.pdf

 

[UK Girl]

Imagine NATO losing 2/3 of it's funding....provided to all Europeans at the U.S. taxpayer's expense.

"The US is a global superpower, with military commitments around the world, not just to Nato. It had GDP equal to all the rest of the members of Nato in 2024, and its spending on defence is two thirds of the Nato total."

How much do Nato members spend on defence?

Nato expects 23 of its 32 members to have met the target of spending 2% of GDP on defence in 2024.

www.bbc.com

Tbh it isnt all about the money. It is about trusting our allies and being there for each other.

 

[Charlot123]

Trump can then turn Ukraine into a lavish resort…

No joke. Everyone who offers anything to Trump has to throw a Trump hotel into the deal

 

[Donswife48]

You aren't seeing what the rest of the world is seeing. If ww3 starts then it will be Trump and Putin to blame. Neither are interested in peace - just money. Jmo, moo

I respectfully disagree. President Trump is trying to bring peace and an end to the war. Yes, it's money, because every bomb that is lobbed back and forth, every piece of equipment used daily costs. What a waste of money. President Trump is not responsible if Zelensky, Putin and the whole rest of Europe, Africa, Brazil, UK et et can't agree. Also among those who have already tried to negotiate peace, the Pope, the head of UN, the head of Nato, the leaders of Eu and any other person or group of people are equally not responsible if WW3 starts. If you read about how many peace proposals have been brought to Zelensky and Putin, you would understand. I haven't counted them, because it's dizzying the back and forth. JMO MOO

 

[statt#1]

MSN

The Prime Minister has called for a British and French-led “Europe-plus” force that would put boots on the ground in Ukraine, provided it is backed by US military guarantees.

You do realize this bolded part is the underlying premise in all things military concerning Europe's defense, right? And, those "military guarantees" are paid for by my self, and literally millions of taxpayers in the U.S.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

There may be a tiny bit of overlap with this thread, but there is now a separate thread for the Canada - USA trade war discussion. The link will be updating all throughout the day as circumstances warrant:

Thread 'Canada - USA Trade War commencing March 2025'

Mar 4, 2025

Dbm

• DS2021
• Replies: 1,042
• Forum: Up to the Minute

• 

Please try to stay on topic in each discussion thread. Thanks !!

 

[JennieM]

16m ago11.32 AEDT

Trump to announce US-Ukraine minerals deal in tonight's address - report​

Donald Trump hopes to announce a minerals deal with Ukraine in his address to Congress tonight, according to Reuters.

Sources told the news agency that Trump has told his advisers he wants to announce the agreement in tonight’s address. They cautioned that the deal had yet to be signed and the situation could change.

Trump touts renewal of rightwing policies in lengthy speech as Democrats jeer, protest and walk out – as it happened

Trump praises Elon Musk and defends trade wars; Democratic congressman Al Green was removed from chamber for early disruption to Trump’s speech

www.theguardian.com

 

[UK Girl]

I respectfully disagree. President Trump is trying to bring peace and an end to the war. Yes, it's money, because every bomb that is lobbed back and forth, every piece of equipment used daily costs. What a waste of money. President Trump is not responsible if Zelensky, Putin and the whole rest of Europe, Africa, Brazil, UK et et can't agree. Also among those who have already tried to negotiate peace, the Pope, the head of UN, the head of Nato, the leaders of Eu and any other person or group of people are equally not responsible if WW3 starts. If you read about how many peace proposals have been brought to Zelensky and Putin, you would understand. I haven't counted them, because it's dizzying the back and forth. JMO MOO

You talk about peace proposals but how many agreements has Putin now broken?

 

[Charlot123]

Yet most did not think the boundaries crossed

IMO Vance was the cause of most of it. He has previously said he didnt care what happened to Ukraine.

You know, I have watched Trump for a while, since observing him joking, so to say, Bishop Al Smith charity meeting in 2016, he peculiar but understandable.

JD Vance i didn't observe although I read his book before all of this.

So I have to watch and listen to him for a while to understand why he behaves the way he does. It is all planned and not impulsive at all.

 

[JennieM]

2m ago19.48 EST
In an extraordinary turnaround, Ukraine and the US reportedly appear to be close to signing a critical minerals deal that the White House has indicated is a precursor to peace talks.

At a joint session of Congress on Tuesday evening, Donald Trump is expected to propose plans to “restore peace around the world”. A White House official told Fox News he would “lay out his plans to end the war in Ukraine”, as well as plans to negotiate the release of hostages held in Gaza, the outlet reported.

Ukraine and the US were supposed to sign a minerals deal that would have resulted in the US investing in Ukraine’s underdeveloped minerals and mining sector, a deal that fell through after a disastrous meeting between Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Trump has said the presence of US workers in Ukraine would be enough to deter Russian president Vladimir Putin from future acts of aggression, with no further security promises needed.

Kyiv was ready to sign the deal “in any time and in any convenient format”, Zelenskyy said on Tuesday. “We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively,” he wrote.

Trump touts renewal of rightwing policies in lengthy speech as Democrats jeer, protest and walk out – as it happened

Trump praises Elon Musk and defends trade wars; Democratic congressman Al Green was removed from chamber for early disruption to Trump’s speech

www.theguardian.com

 

[LibraStarr]

Imagine NATO losing 2/3 of it's funding....provided to all Europeans at the U.S. taxpayer's expense.

"The US is a global superpower, with military commitments around the world, not just to Nato. It had GDP equal to all the rest of the members of Nato in 2024, and its spending on defence is two thirds of the Nato total."

How much do Nato members spend on defence?

Nato expects 23 of its 32 members to have met the target of spending 2% of GDP on defence in 2024.

www.bbc.com

GDP isn’t money paid to NATO; it’s what each country invests in its own military.

NATO as an organization has a separate budget for operations, and the U.S. pays about 16% of that, not the majority.

Imo

Source:NATO Official Site

 

[UK Girl]

The Prime Minister has called for a British and French-led “Europe-plus” force that would put boots on the ground in Ukraine, provided it is backed by US military guarantees.

You do realize this bolded part is the underlying premise in all things military concerning Europe's defense, right? And, those "military guarantees" are paid for by my self, and literally millions of taxpayers in the U.S.

Then tbh America should have let them keep the missiles they had to protect themselves!

 

[UK Girl]

You know, I have watched Trump for a while, since observing him joking, so to say, Bishop Al Smith charity meeting in 2016, he peculiar but understandable.

JD Vance i didn't observe although I read his book before all of this.

So I have to watch and listen to him for a while to understand why he behaves the way he does. It is all planned and not impulsive at all.

A lot of people here are now saying Vance should apologize to the Uk. He is getting slaughtered here.

 

[JennieM]

A lot of people here are now saying Vance should apologize to the Uk. He is getting slaughtered here.

​

UK MPs condemn ‘deeply disrespectful’ JD Vance comments​

US vice-president’s comments on proposed Anglo-French deployment to Ukraine prompt outrage

UK MPs condemn ‘deeply disrespectful’ JD Vance comments

US vice-president’s comments on proposed Anglo-French deployment to Ukraine prompt outrage

www.theguardian.com

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

One rule. If you know that you are not personally liked, don’t dwell on a person’s nerves. Zelenskiy knew that he was invited to the Oval Office because of the deal. He tried to make it about everything else before the deal. So it happened as it did.

It became an issue of personalities. Trump who is blunt essentially said, you have bet on Biden last time, now I am elected (he said something about all the counties turning red), and with me, the rules are different.

I think lengthy meeting was unnecessary given the prior history. You came, you sign, you leave. The problem is, even some Ukrainian commentators say that at European meetings, there is some cross of boundaries by Zelenskyy (like, not taking an interpreter). Here, whatever he did, was viewed as boundaries crossed.

And I yet haven’t made up my mind as to why Vance intervened.

Vance intervened for the same reason Obama’s Chief of Staff intervened when Netanyahu lectured Obama in the Oval Office. I think this happens more often than we think between leaders. We don’t always get to see it. imo

What Zelensky can learn from Netanyahu — and his Oval Office meltdown with Obama

Volodymyr Zelensky’s White House lecture reminds me of the lessons I learned when Israel’s Netanyahu had a similar run-in with a US president — which Ukraine’s leader would do wel…

nypost.com

“Is your boss in the habit of lecturing his host in his home?” White House chief of staff Bill Daley accosted Bibi’s senior aide Ron Dermer right there in the Oval Office.

Rahm Emanuel, whom I encountered that evening, pounded my chest and barked, “Your [expletive] prime minister cannot come into the [expletive] White House and [expletive] lecture the president!”

“Crisis!” screamed every headline.

 

[UK Girl]

Vance intervened for the same reason Obama’s Chief of Staff intervened when Netanyahu lectured Obama in the Oval Office. I think this happens more often than we think between leaders. We don’t always













































































get to see it. imo

What Zelensky can learn from Netanyahu — and his Oval Office meltdown with Obama

Volodymyr Zelensky’s White House lecture reminds me of the lessons I learned when Israel’s Netanyahu had a similar run-in with a US president — which Ukraine’s leader would do wel…

nypost.com

“Is your boss in the habit of lecturing his host in his home?” White House chief of staff Bill Daley accosted Bibi’s senior aide Ron Dermer right there in the Oval Office.

Rahm Emanuel, whom I encountered that evening, pounded my chest and barked, “Your [expletive] prime minister cannot come into the [expletive] White House and [expletive] lecture the president!”

“Crisis!” screamed every headline.

If that is the case maybe meetings should not be in the white house although saying that it did not stop Vance going at Starmer in the White House. Fact is we invite guests and are not supposed to attack them.