Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[SouthAussie]

Why are these talks being held in Saudi Arabia? Wasn’t the Saudi Royal family behind the attacks on the World Trade Center? What standing do they have to negotiate anything? They’re not a member of NATO. Just because Trump has business deals with them doesn’t make them a trustworthy ally of the US, JMO.

The Crown Prince also has a close relationship with Putin.


In recent years, the prince – who is reportedly fascinated by Putin and his grip on power in Russia – has moved closer to the Russian president’s orbit. According to some analysts, he was given a key role in two prisoner exchanges between Russia and the US, including one involving the journalist Evan Gershkovich last year.

That warm relationship began in 2015 when Prince Mohammed visited the Russian president in St Petersburg, and Putin then visited Saudi Arabia in 2023.

The relationship between Moscow and Riyadh has grown ever more important, as Jens Heibach and Luíza Cerioli pointed out in an essay for the Contemporary Security Policy journal last year that explained Saudi Arabia’s long-term reluctance to criticise Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Russia, they wrote, was Riyadh’s “pivotal partner” within the wider Opec+ and “an important pillar of its foreign-policy diversification strategy”.

Saudi Arabia is hosting more Ukraine talks – but how neutral is it?

The US and Ukraine will meet in Jeddah next week, but the Saudi crown prince’s closeness to Putin is a concern

www.theguardian.com

 

[Lilibet]

The Crown Prince also has a close relationship with Putin.


In recent years, the prince – who is reportedly fascinated by Putin and his grip on power in Russia – has moved closer to the Russian president’s orbit. According to some analysts, he was given a key role in two prisoner exchanges between Russia and the US, including one involving the journalist Evan Gershkovich last year.

That warm relationship began in 2015 when Prince Mohammed visited the Russian president in St Petersburg, and Putin then visited Saudi Arabia in 2023.

The relationship between Moscow and Riyadh has grown ever more important, as Jens Heibach and Luíza Cerioli pointed out in an essay for the Contemporary Security Policy journal last year that explained Saudi Arabia’s long-term reluctance to criticise Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Russia, they wrote, was Riyadh’s “pivotal partner” within the wider Opec+ and “an important pillar of its foreign-policy diversification strategy”.

Saudi Arabia is hosting more Ukraine talks – but how neutral is it?

The US and Ukraine will meet in Jeddah next week, but the Saudi crown prince’s closeness to Putin is a concern

www.theguardian.com

Well, I hope President Zelensky makes it out of Saudi Arabia alive. It sounds dangerous and he will not exactly be surrounded by friends.

Remembering Jamal Khashoggi. Saudi Arabia is merciless.

JMO

 

[Vern]

I feel sick seeing this. Putin isn't going after soldiers or war targets . Now he's out to cause as many civilian deaths as he can . He's a inhumane monster a murderer and Trump's friend ally. Just my very angry opinion

Called that the other day in a post on here.

No surprise really as it's a well known Russian tactical move.

It's what they do when they smell 'advantage' and need to suck out morale of 'their enemy' and rile up the locals against their own leader 'for failing'.

Hmmmmm, who gave them that by publicly announcing 'freezes & stoppages' et al??

Indeed, lags and stoppages are usually kept "behind closed doors" with friends and allies. They don't let the enemy know that they are 'running low'.

Trump though has set a brand new "precedent" by his very, very public announcements of cutting off shipments, cutting off intelligence and of forcing others' to also cut off both. Big, bright billboard and TV-rant pronouncements.

Trump claims it is to "pressure" Zelinskyy to cave and get to the table. IMO, I will assure you it was not. Trump could have one those things, diplomaticly - behind closed doors - so that Zelinskyy would know he was under pressure, but that the enemy (RUSSIA) would not know the extent. That's how these things usually work.

He didn't do that - unlike in the history of allied warfare, he does that publicly ... "Go Russia, Go!" Here's your sign.

Nobody needs enemies with friends like this. That does not an ally make. His true colours are shining through.

 

[LibraStarr]

This statement is evidence of a misunderstanding. The "worlds press" means little to the average American. There is a HUGE population in the U.S. that simply no longer trusts, nor believes the "worlds press"...or even U.S. "mainstream media" for that matter. They are all seen as globalist entities, the U.S. mainstream media being a mere tool of the leftist democratic party.

Speak for yourself. Plenty of Americans—including me—don’t buy into the whole “globalist media” conspiracy. In fact, I double-check U.S. news against international sources precisely because I trust the world’s perspective more than the propaganda being fed to Americans right now. Just because you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your worldview doesn’t mean you speak for the “average American.”

 

[UK Girl]

MSN

 

[UK Girl]

"moving from confrontation to greater dialogue"

Zelensky and the warhawks are stuck on confrontation, hence the continuing death and destruction.

Good article

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2592413

This war could stop at a moments notice if Putin pulled his troops. Putin NOT Zelensky!

 

[UK Girl]

Called that the other day in a post on here.

No surprise really as it's a well known Russian tactical move.

It's what they do when they smell 'advantage' and need to suck out morale of 'their enemy' and rile up the locals against their own leader 'for failing'.

Hmmmmm, who gave them that by publicly announcing 'freezes & stoppages' et al??

Indeed, lags and stoppages are usually kept "behind closed doors" with friends and allies. They don't let the enemy know that they are 'running low'.

Trump though has set a brand new "precedent" by his very, very public announcements of cutting off shipments, cutting off intelligence and of forcing others' to also cut off both. Big, bright billboard and TV-rant pronouncements.

Trump claims it is to "pressure" Zelinskyy to cave and get to the table. IMO, I will assure you it was not. Trump could have one those things, diplomaticly - behind closed doors - so that Zelinskyy would know he was under pressure, but that the enemy (RUSSIA) would not know the extent. That's how these things usually work.

He didn't do that - unlike in the history of allied warfare, he does that publicly ... "Go Russia, Go!" Here's your sign.

Nobody needs enemies with friends like this. That does not an ally make. His true colours are shining through.

I actually wonder if going forward things can ever be as it was with the World Leaders. They were never keen on him before and they certainly will not be now.

 

[LibraStarr]

MSN

From the article:

“Kinzinger continued, "They know that an increasing Ukrainian capacity would leave Russia in ruins and Putin humiliated. So they are trying to do the only thing they can—force Ukraine onto a more 'level playing field' by starving it of the weapons and resources it needs to finish the job. This is not just cynical. It is a betrayal of everything the United States claims to stand for. It is despicable, un-American, and a stain on our country’s reputation. It’s politics over lives, and history will not be kind."”

I happen to agree with that bolded part.

 

[UK Girl]

From the article:

“Kinzinger continued, "They know that an increasing Ukrainian capacity would leave Russia in ruins and Putin humiliated. So they are trying to do the only thing they can—force Ukraine onto a more 'level playing field' by starving it of the weapons and resources it needs to finish the job. This is not just cynical. It is a betrayal of everything the United States claims to stand for. It is despicable, un-American, and a stain on our country’s reputation. It’s politics over lives, and history will not be kind."”

I happen to agree with that bolded part.

I agree

 

[CaMan60]

This is a great post. I've been saying this time and again. To ignore the Russian perception of events, their interests, whether right or wrong, is folly. To ignore NATO expansion is folly.

Yep, Facts are facts. And the right people need to come to the table to talk peace.
To ask the two groups, who are doing the fighting to sign off on a cease fire is taking to long. We need a group like the EU or a branch of the WTO to bring the right people together to come to a agreement on a peace plan.

 

[statt#1]

Speak for yourself. Plenty of Americans—including me—don’t buy into the whole “globalist media” conspiracy. In fact, I double-check U.S. news against international sources precisely because I trust the world’s perspective more than the propaganda being fed to Americans right now. Just because you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your worldview doesn’t mean you speak for the “average American.”

Indeed "you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your worldview"....and this is why the meat grinder continues.

 

[Vern]

This statement is evidence of a misunderstanding. The "worlds press" means little to the average American. There is a HUGE population in the U.S. that simply no longer trusts, nor believes the "worlds press"...or even U.S. "mainstream media" for that matter. They are all seen as globalist entities, the U.S. mainstream media being a mere tool of the leftist democratic party.

Yes, well they'd rather rely on OAN, Fox et al to get their "alternate facts" as Trump's team has so eloquently called it.

Also known in the dictionay as "fake news".

alternative facts Meaning & Origin | Slang by Dictionary.com

Alternative facts have been called many things: falsehoods, untruths, delusions.

www.dictionary.com

It's that 'projection' thing at play again.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

From the article:

“Kinzinger continued, "They know that an increasing Ukrainian capacity would leave Russia in ruins and Putin humiliated. So they are trying to do the only thing they can—force Ukraine onto a more 'level playing field' by starving it of the weapons and resources it needs to finish the job. This is not just cynical. It is a betrayal of everything the United States claims to stand for. It is despicable, un-American, and a stain on our country’s reputation. It’s politics over lives, and history will not be kind."”

I happen to agree with that bolded part.

Speak for yourself. Plenty of Americans—including me—don’t buy into the whole “globalist media” conspiracy. In fact, I double-check U.S. news against international sources precisely because I trust the world’s perspective more than the propaganda being fed to Americans right now. Just because you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your worldview doesn’t mean you speak for the “average American.”

Living in the US right now..... with this half of the country that has turned into a Robotic Mob just so so painful.

They all speak is forced framed dictator language and don't even know it. They have lost their brains and their souls.... They Belong! They have been accepted by the "mob".

The spin has worked so well.....

EVEN if they know--in their hearts- that new leadership of super rich oligarchs , who do not give a sheet about normal Americans, and are conducting evil activity that will hurt so many of their American brothers and sisters, and destroy our relationships in the word.
Yep EVEN if the KNOW... they cannot speak up, because they have committed themselves to the Comrade Mob.

As sooooo many people have stated----now we KNOW what happened to the German people leading up to the Hitler.

 

[LibraStarr]

Indeed "you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your worldview"....and this is why the meat grinder continues.

It’s honestly exhausting watching the mental gymnastics some people go through to justify their viewpoints. The moment a fact contradicts their narrative, it’s dismissed as biased or fake, while anything that supports their stance—no matter how flimsy—is accepted without question.

At a certain point, it’s not about having an honest discussion. It’s about protecting a belief system at all costs. There’s no way to debate when facts are filtered through that kind of selective lens. This conversation has clearly moved beyond Ukraine, so I’m leaving it here.

IMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Why would Poland not want Nuclear weapons after they have seen what has happened to Ukraine? it is also why Norway and Sweden joined Nato. The dictator has to learn that actions have consequences. As for anything else Putin has no interest in peace. He is the warmonger that continues to kill innocent people. Not Zelensky.

Also as much as its repeated that Zelensky messed up badly that day the reality is most of us know that that is not the truth. It did show Trump and Vance up though.

Even if Trump and Vance were 100% correct in everything they accused Zelenskyy of in that meeting (which they weren't clearly) no respectable human being with any sense of decency speaks to someone in the way they did to him. It was utterly reprehensible to every right thinking person.

 

[kakadu]

Through his absurd decisions, Trump is responsible for more deaths and more suffering for the Ukrainian people. JMO

 

[LibraStarr]

Even if Trump and Vance were 100% correct in everything they accused Zelenskyy of in that meeting (which they weren't clearly) no respectable human being with any sense of decency speaks to someone in the way they did to him. It was utterly reprehensible to every right thinking person.

I totally agree and honestly I just don’t understand it. In any setting—whether it’s a workplace meeting, a community discussion, or even just a conversation among adults—talking at someone instead of with them, raising your voice, and shutting them down isn’t acceptable. It’s not leadership, it’s not strength—it’s just hostility.

People will say, ‘Well, he rolled his eyes’ or ‘He made a face,’ but —since when does an eye roll justify outright aggression? If someone in a professional meeting got louder and more combative because a colleague made a face, no one would say, ‘Well, that’s fine then.’ Respect isn’t conditional.

Take the war and politics out of it—at its core, this was two men escalating and talking over a third with open hostility. That’s not a discussion, that’s a display of power. And when the goal is supposed to be diplomacy, that approach is a failure before the conversation even starts.

 

[Summerliz03]

Speak for yourself. Plenty of Americans—including me—don’t buy into the whole “globalist media” conspiracy. In fact, I double-check U.S. news against international sources precisely because I trust the world’s perspective more than the propaganda being fed to Americans right now. Just because you and your circle have decided to dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your worldview doesn’t mean you speak for the “average American.”

I agree with every word here and I’ll also add - in addition to reading and checking multiple sources for my news (both US based and international sources), I’ve found that I’ve learned A LOT just from the other international posters in this thread (and the past ones) I love learning the perspectives of the Australians, British, Ukrainian and Canandian (and so many other countries) posters who give their thoughts. I think we can all agree that Americans can be quite limited in their views of the world so it’s extremely helpful and refreshing to get that world view approach from people actually living in other countries and hear their experiences/views/thoughts. So thank you all!!!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I actually wonder if going forward things can ever be as it was with the World Leaders. They were never keen on him before and they certainly will not be now.

Unfortunately, due to the way Trump has been behaving I can see the USA being considered untrustworthy for a very long time. This is a generational thing, imo.

Sad but he's done what he's done and it can't be undone.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Living in the US right now..... with this half of the country that has turned into a Robotic Mob just so so painful.

They all speak is forced framed dictator language and don't even know it. They have lost their brains and their souls.... They Belong! They have been accepted by the "mob".

The spin has worked so well.....

EVEN if they know--in their hearts- that new leadership of super rich oligarchs , who do not give a sheet about normal Americans, and are conducting evil activity that will hurt so many of their American brothers and sisters, and destroy our relationships in the word.
Yep EVEN if the KNOW... they cannot speak up, because they have committed themselves to the Comrade Mob.

As sooooo many people have stated----now we KNOW what happened to the German people leading up to the Hitler.

I am not addressing the few on this thread that are clearly Trump fans....
I know that they are prob well educated folks. The comrade masses are more of the norm.

But I have had a marvelous change as to where I live and the environment that surrounds me.

Though I had a fabulous large circle of like minded friends in my Florida home.... as I know I have stated before, we lived in a 75+% Repub. The rhetoric, the rallies, the robots ...were the norm. Less concern about Russia and anything international, but the EXACT rhetoric, the same words, the constant claims of Fake News!!

And now in Eastern NY and Vermont... 75% like minded. Certainly Canada-loving !!! Sad sad feelings, but we do know what is RIGHT and what is wrong.

The big CLUE to me: These folks accept ANYTHING that the big tRump says and does.
Everything is right and necessary to save America.
The great Revolution of Madness.