Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[UK Girl]

Something else not going the way Putin wantsMSN

 

[Vern]

This is a great post. I've been saying this time and again. To ignore the Russian perception of events, their interests, whether right or wrong, is folly. To ignore NATO expansion is folly. To ignore previous administrations, agreements, empty promises on both sides of this war, is folly. Trump is trying to get Putin to the negotiation table. A 'western' hardline approach, threats of nuclear expansionism, ideas of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, these things, to name a few, are, in my opinion, why Putin has cranked up the killing.

Zelensky knows all these things, he knew them prior to that meeting in Washington. The guy messed up real bad that day, and we see the results in the recent explosion of Russian rage. The warmongers continue to have what they lust for....war.

Go check out NATO expansionism. Then check out Russian 'expansionism'. History does not get to be re-written. And to ignore the actual history is a folly.

Putin's problem has ZERO to do with NATO expansionism. He even stated that he was "protecting the population” of Crimea & Donbas

NATOs expansionism has happened EXACTLY because of Russia's expansionism and transgressions. Just the facts.

I'll take a couple of sources and combine them into a timeline, just so it's very clear how this all actually went down.

NATO "Expansionism" in yellow.
Russian "Expansionism" is normal font.

1949: NATO is formed. Bullets indicate years a nation joined NATO:

• 1949: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom, and the United States
• 1952: Greece and Turkey
• 1955: West Germany
• 1982: Spain

1990: The infamous: "Not One Inch Eastward", in "expansionism" by NATO, but then Russia did this anyway .... Too bad that when the Soviets collapsed and Gorbachov was done as President in 1991 all of the below happened: (so, so much for 'agreements') ....

1992-1993 – Russia occupied Transnistria
After Moldova proclaimed its independence, part of the country, which at that time housed a military base with the Russian 14th Army, declared its sovereignty. The war broke out, after which Transnistria turned into a gray area, unrecognized by anyone, with a destroyed economy and international isolation.

1992-1993 – Russia provoked the Abkhazian war
On August 14, 1992, Russia provoked a war between Abkhazian separatists and the Georgian government by supporting the former. Russian weapons ended up in the hands of Abkhazians. Russian planes bombed civilian targets in the territory controlled by Georgia, and Russia provided its military vessels for shelling Sukhumi. The war ended with the separation of Abkhazia from Georgia, which was what Russia wanted.

1994-1996 – First Russian-Chechen war
Russia “assisted” other nations in losing their sovereignty and reinforced separatist sentiments, while in Russia itself, the Chechen people tried to gain independence, which provoked a brutal war.

1999-2009 – Second Russian-Chechen war
The second Russian-Chechen war was held from 1999 to the spring of 2009. Fighting unfolded in Chechnia and the border regions of the North Caucasus. The first phase of the war lasted until the spring of 2000 and ended with the installation of a pro-Russian Chechen government.

*

2008 – Russian-Georgian war
On August 8, 2008, Russian troops, under the pretext of “protecting the population”, (<---- doesn't that sound familiar!!??) launched an invasion of Georgia from the territories of the separatist republics of North Osetiia and Abkhazia. Within five days, Russian planes carried out more than 100 strikes on Georgian cities. Since then, South Ossetia has remained an unrecognized republic under Russian control.

*

2015-2022 – Russia’s invasion of Syria
The Russian invasion was a crucial moment in the Syrian civil war that began in 2011. Back in early 2015, the government under the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was doomed to collapse. Russian weapons, air support, and troops reinforced Assad’s dictatorship and destroyed the lives of millions of people.

2014-Present – Russian-Ukrainian war
In the spring of 2014, Russia annexed Crimea and tried to create “people’s republics” in the east, south, and center of Ukraine. Russian citizens under the guise of the “independence movement” seized power in Donetsk and Luhansk with the support of Russian troops.

*

After the above Russian "expansionism" aka "agression", NATO admitted some other Nations in the interets of preserving their democracies and protecting them from Russia exactly because of Russias actions! Yep, NATO expanded eastwards for very obvious reasons indicated above.

• *1999: Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland
• *2004: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia
• *2009: Albania and Croatia
• *2017: Montenegro
• 2020: North Macedonia
• 2023: Finland
• 2024: Sweden

Funny that.

Facts are facts. Russia decides who it wants to invade and take over through force. NATO gets to decide who we allow in ... "peacefully" for their and our collective security.

The timeline and facts of history cannot be revised because "Putin says" ....

NATO Page

Interactive timeline of Russian Agression NATO

American Foreign Affairs service

Facts matter.

.

 

[PommyMommy]

Maxar confirms US government blocked Ukrainian access to satellite data

Soldiers in Kursk and near Pokrovsk described lost functionality in battle software, though some called it "an inconvenience" rather than a blow, per WP.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898322301503844403

Ukrainian sabotage targets locomotive in Russia's Voronezh used for military logistics

Ukrainian military intelligence carried out two sabotage operations, disabling locomotives in Russia's Voronezh and, earlier, Moscow Oblast.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898329854786883874

Drones hit Russian army ration production facility (video)Locals reported six explosions, followed by a fire at the MRE factory.
https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/03/08/drones-hit-russian-army-ration-production-facility-video/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898371980073554376

 

[Stella123]

In pictures: Ukrainians receive medical training from Canadians​

Some images to bring you from Ukraine now.

These show Canadian medical instructors conducting tactical exercises for Ukrainian servicemen in the Donetsk region.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada has provided military training to over 44,000 Ukrainian troops since 2015.

Pics: Reuters

In pictures: Ukrainians protest outside US embassy in Kyiv​

Ukrainians have gathered outside the US embassy in Kyiv to protest against Donald Trump's stance on Ukraine's war with Russia.

Many across the country have felt let down by Washington after the Trump administration begun peace talks with Russia last month, excluding Ukraine.

The US decision to suspend all military aid to Kyiv and pause intelligence sharing has also been a point of contention among Ukrainians.

Pics: Reuters

Ukraine war latest: Pro-EU party lead over Moscow-leaning opposition as counting continues in high-stakes Moldova election

Moldova's ruling pro-European party has pulled ahead in the pivotal election, which will decide whether the country stays on its path towards EU membership or drifts back into Moscow's orbit.

news.sky.com

 

[Stella123]

Ukrainians are clearly very upset by Trump's references to games of cards ......... That juxtaposition of smiling American faces next to wounded children in Ukraine JMO

I agree with them. Trump is a traitor JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Something else not going the way Putin wantsMSN

Noting:

Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, has said he is in favour of abandoning the Ottawa Convention, the 1997 treaty forbidding the production, use and storage of anti-personnel mines. He also suggested Poland may exit the Dublin convention, which applies to cluster munitions.

It came as Lithuania formally withdrew from the Dublin convention on March 6 and said it was considering an exit from the Ottawa treaty, while Finland is considering similar measures.

In November 2024, Alexander Stubb, the president of Finland, noted that Ukraine relies heavily on landmines and drones to repel Russian forces, amid the debate on leaving conventions on mine and cluster bomb usage.

“The starting point is that our greatest security threat is Russia, and this threat must be addressed one way or another. The world is very different now compared to when we joined the Ottawa Convention,” he said.

 

[LoveyG]

In pictures: Ukrainians receive medical training from Canadians​

Some images to bring you from Ukraine now.

These show Canadian medical instructors conducting tactical exercises for Ukrainian servicemen in the Donetsk region.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada has provided military training to over 44,000 Ukrainian troops since 2015.

Pics: Reuters

In pictures: Ukrainians protest outside US embassy in Kyiv​

Ukrainians have gathered outside the US embassy in Kyiv to protest against Donald Trump's stance on Ukraine's war with Russia.

Many across the country have felt let down by Washington after the Trump administration begun peace talks with Russia last month, excluding Ukraine.

The US decision to suspend all military aid to Kyiv and pause intelligence sharing has also been a point of contention among Ukrainians.

Pics: Reuters

Ukraine war latest: Pro-EU party lead over Moscow-leaning opposition as counting continues in high-stakes Moldova election

Moldova's ruling pro-European party has pulled ahead in the pivotal election, which will decide whether the country stays on its path towards EU membership or drifts back into Moscow's orbit.

news.sky.com

Love that sign: "Don't ask Uk(r)aine to stop defending, ask Russia to stop attacking"

 

[Stella123]

Those people above are the civilians being slaughtered by Russia in the last couple of days because of Trump's actions. MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

Even if Trump and Vance were 100% correct in everything they accused Zelenskyy of in that meeting (which they weren't clearly) no respectable human being with any sense of decency speaks to someone in the way they did to him. It was utterly reprehensible to every right thinking person.

They were very respectful, allowing him to go on 20 minutes off topic.

The meeting was almost over. Zelensky ask..Can I ask you (JD) a question? He started the same rhetoric Putin wasn't going to live up to an agreement, he need to protect and what was the US going to do to help him fight against Putin. (Not exempt but pretty close)

JD responded with diplomacy ..... Zelensky cut him off and started talking over him.
JD said we're trying to help you save your country. Your people are dying.

Trump intervened....

He came into the White House, the Oval office. He derailed a press conference for a economic agreement. Everyone listen to him close to 20 minutes. Trump told him repeatedly .... European countries will need to provide security. The US will not provide security. Then he would start back in again with the same. .... I need the United States. ( Well if he needed the United States you should have been a little nicer and respectful) He was a guest. He was entertained the night before. Entertainer by Congressional Representatives that morning. A photo off of National TV to announce a joint agreement. A luncheon for him and all his staff, to include Trump, JD and cabinet members. A meeting schedule for the entire afternoon. They had planned an engagement for him that evening and several the next day. All while being hosted and pay for by the American taxpayer dollar.

I watched the entire event live and several replays. Even watched him abruptly leave, with his staff following.

Once again, the alphabet media, chose only to show 15 to 20 sec selected clips to fit their narrative. Censorship, not true reporting.

Moo

 

[PommyMommy]

These are the indicative estimates of Russia’s combat losses as of March 8, according to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898281675852861887

US to stop participating in future military exercises in Europe. The U.S. has told its allies that it does not plan to participate in military exercises held in Europe beyond those already scheduled in 2025, Swedish media outlet Expressen reported.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898373239618867272

*FROM TWO HOURS AGO:

Air raid sirens wailing across Kyiv and multiple regions of Ukraine. Ballistic missile threat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898357837064991028

 

[Simply Southern]

I am not addressing the few on this thread that are clearly Trump fans....
I know that they are prob well educated folks. The comrade masses are more of the norm.

But I have had a marvelous change as to where I live and the environment that surrounds me.

Though I had a fabulous large circle of like minded friends in my Florida home.... as I know I have stated before, we lived in a 75+% Repub. The rhetoric, the rallies, the robots ...were the norm. Less concern about Russia and anything international, but the EXACT rhetoric, the same words, the constant claims of Fake News!!

And now in Eastern NY and Vermont... 75% like minded. Certainly Canada-loving !!! Sad sad feelings, but we do know what is RIGHT and what is wrong.

The big CLUE to me: These folks accept ANYTHING that the big tRump says and does.
Everything is right and necessary to save America.
The great Revolution of Madness.

I am happy you found peace. Eastern New York and Vermont is quite beautiful. The air is so crisp and fresh, fresh snow or the birds singing. Many rural areas, small quaint towns, my kind of place, as well. Truly brings peace to the soul.
Surrounding yourself with like minded individuals is the key to happiness.

Moo

 

[UK Girl]

Noting:

Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, has said he is in favour of abandoning the Ottawa Convention, the 1997 treaty forbidding the production, use and storage of anti-personnel mines. He also suggested Poland may exit the Dublin convention, which applies to cluster munitions.

It came as Lithuania formally withdrew from the Dublin convention on March 6 and said it was considering an exit from the Ottawa treaty, while Finland is considering similar measures.

In November 2024, Alexander Stubb, the president of Finland, noted that Ukraine relies heavily on landmines and drones to repel Russian forces, amid the debate on leaving conventions on mine and cluster bomb usage.

“The starting point is that our greatest security threat is Russia, and this threat must be addressed one way or another. The world is very different now compared to when we joined the Ottawa Convention,” he said.

Tbh how can anyone blame them wanting to ensure they can protect themselves after seeing what Russia has done?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I agree with every word here and I’ll also add - in addition to reading and checking multiple sources for my news (both US based and international sources), I’ve found that I’ve learned A LOT just from the other international posters in this thread (and the past ones) I love learning the perspectives of the Australians, British, Ukrainian and Canandian (and so many other countries) posters who give their thoughts. I think we can all agree that Americans can be quite limited in their views of the world so it’s extremely helpful and refreshing to get that world view approach from people actually living in other countries and hear their experiences/views/thoughts. So thank you all!!!

i must ditto.....
The international voices here are actually my sanity. I do have some very close friends in Canada and the UK.... but the wider world wide views here are so so valuable....

One such post included mention of this article . The article is painful. It is making me do further research... But it is a valuable read.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/05/15/top-5-myths-about-us-meddling-in-ukraine-a35488/pdf

This alone provides Washington a legal, if not moral, imperative to supportKiev after its territorial integrity was violated during the Russian invasion of Crimea.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They were very respectful, allowing him to go on 20 minutes off topic.

The meeting was almost over. Zelensky ask..Can I ask you (JD) a question? He started the same rhetoric Putin wasn't going to live up to an agreement, he need to protect and what was the US going to do to help him fight against Putin. (Not exempt but pretty close)

JD responded with diplomacy ..... Zelensky cut him off and started talking over him.
JD said we're trying to help you save your country. Your people are dying.

Trump intervened....

He came into the White House, the Oval office. He derailed a press conference for a economic agreement. Everyone listen to him close to 20 minutes. Trump told him repeatedly .... European countries will need to provide security. The US will not provide security. Then he would start back in again with the same. .... I need the United States. ( Well if he needed the United States you should have been a little nicer and respectful) He was a guest. He was entertained the night before. Entertainer by Congressional Representatives that morning. A photo off of National TV to announce a joint agreement. A luncheon for him and all his staff, to include Trump, JD and cabinet members. A meeting schedule for the entire afternoon. They had planned an engagement for him that evening and several the next day. All while being hosted and pay for by the American taxpayer dollar.

I watched the entire event live and several replays. Even watched him abruptly leave, with his staff following.

Once again, the alphabet media, chose only to show 15 to 20 sec selected clips to fit their narrative. Censorship, not true reporting.

Moo

Thank you and I agree.

I also watched the entire PC and used my own eyes and ears to come to a conclusion about Zelenskyy's rude behavior. No media needed to do that. JMO.

 

[UK Girl]

They were very respectful, allowing him to go on 20 minutes off topic.

The meeting was almost over. Zelensky ask..Can I ask you (JD) a question? He started the same rhetoric Putin wasn't going to live up to an agreement, he need to protect and what was the US going to do to help him fight against Putin. (Not exempt but pretty close)

JD responded with diplomacy ..... Zelensky cut him off and started talking over him.
JD said we're trying to help you save your country. Your people are dying.

Trump intervened....

He came into the White House, the Oval office. He derailed a press conference for a economic agreement. Everyone listen to him close to 20 minutes. Trump told him repeatedly .... European countries will need to provide security. The US will not provide security. Then he would start back in again with the same. .... I need the United States. ( Well if he needed the United States you should have been a little nicer and respectful) He was a guest. He was entertained the night before. Entertainer by Congressional Representatives that morning. A photo off of National TV to announce a joint agreement. A luncheon for him and all his staff, to include Trump, JD and cabinet members. A meeting schedule for the entire afternoon. They had planned an engagement for him that evening and several the next day. All while being hosted and pay for by the American taxpayer dollar.

I watched the entire event live and several replays. Even watched him abruptly leave, with his staff following.

Once again, the alphabet media, chose only to show 15 to 20 sec selected clips to fit their narrative. Censorship, not true reporting.

Moo

JD responding with diplomacy? like he did with Starmer the day before? and European leaders weeks before? It sounds like he hates Europe tbh. Fact is..he was horrible to Zelensky. They both were and for people in their position just disgusting.

Incidentally most of the world saw more than 15 to 20 second clips. We all saw the same.

 

[LibraStarr]

I watched the entire event live and several replays. Even watched him abruptly leave, with his staff following.

Once again, the alphabet media, chose only to show 15 to 20 sec selected clips to fit their narrative. Censorship, not true reporting.

I also watched the entire event live and multiple replays. The full footage is widely available online—nothing has been censored.

Disagreement isn’t censorship. Just because others interpret the event differently doesn’t mean they didn’t see the same thing you did.

 

[UK Girl]

Thank you and I agree.

I also watched the entire PC and used my own eyes and ears to come to a conclusion about Zelenskyy's rude behavior. No media needed to do that. JMO.

Yet...most of us disagree with what we saw.

 

[Vern]

There's really no need for him to go. He's not part of the negotiation team. He's going early to meet with the Prince. Another photo op, lots of fabulous food and a warm cozy bed. I'm sure they'll treat him very well.
Moo...

He is the Leader of Ukraine.

But, no need for him to have a say in the future of that country in negotiations!

THAT factoid is the actual problem with the situation.

 

[PommyMommy]

Trump played into Putin's hands

Russian and North Korean forces stormed Sudzha, and street battles are underway. This occurred after Trump’s decision to cut off Ukraine’s access to American satellite and intelligence support, leaving Ukrainian forces in a disadvantaged position.

The Russian Ministry of Defense reports that Russian troops entered Sudzha from the side of Kurilovka, trapping around 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers in the city. In total, approximately 6,300 Ukrainian servicemen are encircled. Up to 10,000 Ukrainian Defense Forces personnel may be in the Sudzha district, with no communication with their command.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, Russian forces have advanced in several nearby areas, including Malaya Loknya, Basovka, and in the direction of Kazachya Loknya. The Ministry also confirmed the liberation of several settlements in the Kursk region. Sudzha is almost completely surrounded.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898332931963142555

Ukraine considers Kursk withdrawal amid fears of encirclement of 10,000 troops.

Ukraine's forces are considering a withdrawal from Kursk, with 10,000 Ukrainian troops at risk of encirclement after Russia broke through key defense lines and disrupted supply chains, The Telegraph reported.
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-considers-kursk-withdrawal-amid-fears-of-encirclement-of-10-000-troops-telegraph-reports/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898309602686484649

 

[Vern]

Was it not NBC, CBS, ABC and CNN that assured the American people, President Biden had excellent mental acuity? They were part of the White House cover up.

Defining moment .... The presidential debate

Was it not CBS that doctored an interview for Kamala Harris?

I think a person has to be open-minded. I prefer not to live in a paradigm. I watch all the news outlets and trying to separate fact from fiction. It was pretty easy, I can see with my own eyes, the message was contradictory.

Moo

Meh; I didn't like Biden either. Even commented on his lack of mental accuity as not fit.

Precisely because I don't limit my knowledge to what one side or the other puts out. I call it 'research' - I take it upon myself to inform myself. Lest one simply parrot a paradigm's talking points.

Anything else?

.