scotland yard investigation

[Donjeta]

Yeah... but I'm a bit discouraged by this:

Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are, for the first time, to target mobile phone records of thousands of holidaymakers in the Portuguese holiday resort of Praia da Luz.

Senior officers say the aim is to try to establish the footprints of the resort's population during the week when three-year-old Madeleine vanished.

http://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-mccann-investigation-mobile-phone-records-portugal

If they need the phone records of everybody in the resort it sounds like they have no idea who they're looking at and are basically just fishing. Arrests were promised before the end of the summer and now it's October and they're just requesting phone records of thousands of people, some of them prepaid phones that they don't even know who they belong to... And let's say someone made a phone call in Praia de Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared. How is that going to prove they abducted Madeleine?
Can you get warrants for phone records based on no probable cause and no other connection to a criminal case except having had a holiday in Portugal a few years ago?
How long do phone companies keep this data anyway? Do they still have someone's pings from 2007?

American carriers seem to have varied policies.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/09/cellular-customer-data/

A major appeal will be launched in five different countries in the week after next - the UK, Ireland, Germany, Holland and Portugal - when they will reveal new information and a new theory as to how the little girl may have disappeared.

A major appeal based on "substantive" new information will be broadcast on the BBC's Crimewatch on 14 October.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not discouraged at all. By gathering all that information they can either include or exclude people. That will whittle down their suspect list and give them more laser focus.

I think it is a new avenue that may indeed help them to find out what happened to Madeleine that night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, it might... but the way this was marketed in the summer was that they had it practically solved already.

July 6

THE new investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance could lead to a string of arrests within weeks, it emerged yesterday.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/41...robe-will-have-teeth-vows-Scotland-Yard-chief

Generally in investigations in which they already have a list of serious suspects and strings of arrests are expected within weeks they neither need to, want to or have the time to pore over the phone records of thousands of wholly unconnected innocent people.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The McCann phone records were examined back in 2007.

Unfortunately, the records had been erased.

The PJ check Kate and Gerry's phone records. Kate did not make any phone calls between the 27th April and the 4th of May which arouses suspicions. And hasn't received any between 11:22 on the 2nd of May and 23:17 of the 3rd. Gerry's phone has no record of calls before the 4th at 00:15. But there is a record on Kate's phone of a phone call from her husband on the 3rd May at 23:17. The same record doesn't exist on Gerry's phone. So the records were deleted. Why?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html

Presumably the erased records are recreatable once LE puts the jigsaw of cell pings together.

They are looking for those erased calls.

Maybe Operation Grange isn't just another PR exercise...lease:

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Wouldn't it be something if the investigation the McCann's wanted so badly turned right back around on them?

Even if they were deleted out of their phone that wouldn't change the record's from the phone company would it? I'am not sure how things work in Portugal, but I know in the us it wouldn't make a difference!

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wouldn't it be something if the investigation the McCann's wanted so badly turned right back around on them?

Even if they were deleted out of their phone that wouldn't change the record's from the phone company would it? I'am not sure how things work in Portugal, but I know in the us it wouldn't make a difference!

Nope, what I think they can do is work backwards, instead of tracing a phone through it's pings, they are wanting to trace the pings back to the phones...perfect! It will all be (hopefully) recorded somewhere. Deleted calls will be found again.

This is why McCann watchers around the world are getting slightly warmed up after far, far too long.

There's been too much political fiddling in this one, and the media have been pathetic. It's almost too much to hope that the butt covering will finally start to fall away to reveal the ugly truth.

Both sides of LE originally found evidence that implicated the McCanns, which is why the dogs were brought in. They were British dogs.

There is also no doubt the McCanns lied.

Some of us real cynics find it somewhat amusing that Gerry went flying over for the libel case halfway through, once he'd realised he wasn't actually allowed to testify.

They are petrified of a witness box.

:twocents:

 

[Inana]

The PJ check Kate and Gerry's phone records. Kate did not make any phone calls between the 27th April and the 4th of May which arouses suspicions. And hasn't received any between 11:22 on the 2nd of May and 23:17 of the 3rd. Gerry's phone has no record of calls before the 4th at 00:15. But there is a record on Kate's phone of a phone call from her husband on the 3rd May at 23:17. The same record doesn't exist on Gerry's phone. So the records were deleted. Why?

I don't understand why Kate not making any phone calls between the April 27 and May 4 would be suspicious. She was on vacation.

And I regularly delete my text and call inbox and outbox. Just no need to keep all that. Maybe some providers just rotate out the old ones? I don't know. I thought everyone deletes that stuff.

 

[Inana]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445092/Was-Madeleine-McCann-abducted-burglars-disturbed-holiday-flat.html <O</O
5 October 2013<O</O
Was Maddie abducted by burglars she disturbed at holiday flat? Scotland Yard probes new theory as McCanns prepare to make 'significant' TV appeal. Detectives think her disappearance could be linked to a series of break-ins at the Portuguese resort from which she vanished…The burglaries – thought to be the work of a ‘team’ of thieves – happened in the months leading up to Madeleine’s disappearance…Yard chiefs revealed detectives are trawling through a vast log of mobile phone traffic identified in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance…

<O>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446173/The-pieces-jigsaw-fitting-Missing-Maddies-parents-greatly-encouraged-new-mobile-phone-evidence-probe-spreads-Holland-Germany.html <O</O
October 5, 2013<O</O
'The pieces of the jigsaw are now fitting together': Missing Maddie's parents 'greatly encouraged' by new mobile phone evidence as probe spreads to Holland and Germany…<O</O
</O

 

[Inana]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130
Since July, police have formally requested the co-operation of the Portuguese authorities and a team of six senior detectives from Faro, in the Algarve, has begun working on the inquiry&#8230;the EU data retention directive, which compels telephone companies to retain call and internet records for a period of time, was at an "immature stage" in 2007. But he said it appeared the data "wasn't properly or appropriately interrogated," at the time. In UK investigations, he would expect the data to have been examined almost immediately, he said, but the "complex nature and geography" had made it more difficult...Detectives said "fresh and substantive" information would emerge on 14 October, when the BBC broadcasts a Crimewatch appeal.

<O
</O>

 

[Donjeta]

Well if that's what happened I don't know why the police were saying they think Madeleine could still be alive. There's no way a panicked burglar kidnapped a child in an unplanned manner because they panicked and then un-panicked and managed to find a hiding place and kept her alive and cared for her for six years despite an international manhunt. They'd have wanted to get rid of her ASAP when the magnitude of the case hit the news. If burglars who didn't intend to steal a child took her she's been dead for many years. JMO.

The programme will also feature a reconstruction of events in the Portuguese resort on the night Madeleine disappeared.
However, Kate and Gerry have banned the re-enactment of their daughter&#8217;s disappearance from taking place in Portugal through fear of angering the country&#8217;s police.
Instead they have allowed filming to go ahead in neighbouring Spain, with actors playing the roles of the anguished couple.
A three-year-old child actress, bearing a striking similarity to their daughter, will double as Madeleine.
Crimewatch editor Joe Mather said: &#8216;We are very hopeful this major reconstruction, along with the substantial new lines of enquiry, will prompt viewers with vital information to get in touch with officers in the studio.&#8217;

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...be-spreads-Holland-Germany.html#ixzz2gvZ2Rg5r
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Maybe it's just me being sceptical of everything related to this case but Mather seems a little overoptimistic imo. If someone knew who took Madeleine all this time and didn't say anything for whatever reasons, they're not going to suddenly be moved into confessing it all by seeing someone act out the abduction on TV. If someone has information but doesn't know that they know who took Madeleine they're not going to have a major revelation and put all the tiny details together because they see some actors who may or may not resemble the real persons acting the abduction out somewhere else that may or may not even look like the actual place. If it was the real location it might have a chance of sparking someone's memory, perhaps.

Why would the Portuguese police be angered by a re-enactment?

 

[Inana]

I don't hold much hope for a 'burgler did it' resolution either. There was a man who claimed that there had been an attempted kidnapping attempt on his daughter on April 26, just before the McCann's arrived. . I DO think there was a child theft ring of some kind going on.


http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/2009/06/chapter-3.html
Attempted kidnapping on April 26, 2007<O></O>

 

[Inana]

If they need the phone records of everybody in the resort it sounds like they have no idea who they're looking at and are basically just fishing. Arrests were promised before the end of the summer and now it's October and they're just requesting phone records of thousands of people, some of them prepaid phones that they don't even know who they belong to... And let's say someone made a phone call in Praia de Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared. How is that going to prove they abducted Madeleine?
Can you get warrants for phone records based on no probable cause and no other connection to a criminal case except having had a holiday in Portugal a few years ago?
How long do phone companies keep this data anyway? Do they still have someone's pings from 2007?

American carriers seem to have varied policies.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/09/cellular-customer-data/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130

You have posed good questions. I wonder if they HAVE to get a warrant for phone records in Portugal? Their laws are quite different so I'm never too surprised. Except when I read somewhere that in Portugal they don't give lie-detector tests. That surprised me.

 

[Donjeta]

You have posed good questions. I wonder if they HAVE to get a warrant for phone records in Portugal? Their laws are quite different so I'm never too surprised. Except when I read somewhere that in Portugal they don't give lie-detector tests. That surprised me.

And who knows how many other countries? It sounds to me like they have the ping map data from the local cell phone towers that gives them the numbers but I think that to get any further information about which calls were made and who the phones belong to they would mostly have to apply to the phone providers in the home countries of the vacationers, as only the regular residents would have a Portuguese phone service. Some may have bought a pay-as-you go card in Portugal.

Under the burglary theory the phone records search almost makes sense to me if they're looking at the pattern of pings and trying to find out if there was a phone or phones that always pinged near wherever there was an earlier burglary and if they were close to Madeleine's apartment that night. But I don't understand why they wouldn't ask to see just the phone records of those phones and why they'd have to identify everyone else who doesn't fit the pattern.

 

[SapphireSteel]

They are looking for McCann pings.

That's it.

The McCann had deleted their phone records and they are trying to patch them back together.

Considering PDL is a very small town, there is possibly only one local tower with limited pings - other countries don't have the amount of cell phones us Western types do.

 

[Donjeta]

They are looking for McCann pings.

That's it.

The McCann had deleted their phone records and they are trying to patch them back together.

Considering PDL is a very small town, there is possibly only one local tower with limited pings - other countries don't have the amount of cell phones us Western types do.

Are people able to delete their own phone records?
They can delete the call history from the phone itself but the phone company would have their phone records anyway.

 

[Robin Hood]

IIRC The Portuguese WANTED a re-enactment when the McCann clan decided it wasn't going to happen.

Just to add this was in reply to Donjeta's post on page 6.

 

[Robin Hood]

Are people able to delete their own phone records?
They can delete the call history from the phone itself but the phone company would have their phone records anyway.

Again, IIRC, UK wouldn't let the phone records be viewed.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The PJ were not even supplied with Madeleine's medical records.

The McCanns literally could not have been less cooperative.

:banghead:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Are people able to delete their own phone records?
They can delete the call history from the phone itself but the phone company would have their phone records anyway.

Yes but the records are held in the UK and this was Portugal. They would have to have the cooperation of both police forces, governments and courts before they could hope to subpoena them, something which had ceased very quickly.

The PJ believes Kate and Gerry both deleted their call registers but one stray call remained undeleted from one phone not the other.

Kate in fact had deleted all her call records for the entire week.

 

[Robin Hood]

No co-operation from UK I'm afraid, all avenues blocked. Even the E.A. warrant.

Edited to correct spelling.