scotland yard investigation

[Robin Hood]

The PJ were not even supplied with Madeleine's medical records.

The McCanns literally could not have been less cooperative.

:banghead:

The medical records are still sealed

 

[Robin Hood]

And who knows how many other countries? It sounds to me like they have the ping map data from the local cell phone towers that gives them the numbers but I think that to get any further information about which calls were made and who the phones belong to they would mostly have to apply to the phone providers in the home countries of the vacationers, as only the regular residents would have a Portuguese phone service. Some may have bought a pay-as-you go card in Portugal.

It's the home countries that have the data and the McCanns and friends phones are UK registered.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm excited today with all the attention and information they are gathering on the case. I believe that they are very close to finding out what happened to maddie or at least closer to the truth.

There is no proof these parents had anything more to do with thus than making the mistake of believing they were choosing a good way to keep tabs on the kids.
There is no proof muddies is even dead.

Watching Elizabeth Smart this morning I realize that anything is possible.

These parents have been persecuted enough without any proof of guilt.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

 

[Donjeta]

There is no proof these parents had anything more to do with thus than making the mistake of believing they were choosing a good way to keep tabs on the kids.

Yeah... but I have to say that it bothers me a lot whenever parents don't let the investigators access anything and everything to rule them out and refuse to cooperate in a number of ways. It leaves open a lot of questions and makes "there's no proof" a lot less meaningful than when the investigators have been granted full cooperation and all the information they asked for. Would there have been something incriminating in the missing records? Maybe not but we'll never know for sure if they haven't been examined.

 

[Donjeta]

No co-operation from UK I'm afraid, all avenues blocked. Even the E.A. warrant.

Edited to correct spelling.

What is an E.A warrant?

I am a little upset about the information that the police hadn't got access to all the information from the UK. I had read about it before I suppose but I don't understand how and why the phone records could be blocked.


Hopefully Scotland Yard can get them. Who knows, maybe the perp called the parents at some point, to test the waters, pretending to be a telemarketer or a wrong number or something. It seems like a betrayal of Madeleine not to check the possibility out imo.

 

[Cherry]

One need look no further than Kate. Hopefully scotland yard will charge her when this is all over.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

The PJ were not even supplied with Madeleine's medical records.

The McCanns literally could not have been less cooperative.

:banghead:

The records are sealed. Funny thing, the Ramsey's records remain sealed to this day. Why? If there's nothing to hide, hand them over. If my child were missing, I'd hand over everything and then some. I think most parents would. They're hiding something. I'd bet the farm on it.

 

[Donjeta]

I just don't understand how in the freaking blazes they can get the phone records of thousands of random outsiders but not the people who were last to see her.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I just don't understand how in the freaking blazes they can get the phone records of thousands of random outsiders but not the people who were last to see her.

I think you've misunderstood.

They requested the McCann cell phones in the very early days, which is SOP.

They found that the phone's own call registers had been deleted, but one stray had been overlooked. There was a Kate-Gerry call still on one phone not the other.

It was decided at the time that requesting a "tap" on the phones would be too inflammatory (the respective governments were already involved) so they did not pursue the phone angle at that time...also, the PJ are not that wealthy. All this international legal stuff costs money for lawyers which they possibly didn't have or couldn't get.

It is also questionable if a UK phone company would accept any request for it's records from a European Police Force at the time short of court order, so it is easy to see why this angle was not followed up...especially when the parents were clearly POI's.

Now, however, we have Operation Grange, who are clearly attempting to rebuild a record of ALL mobile communications that night, from PDL.

As I noted, it is a small town, with likely only one tower nearby.

Those records, "pings", are permanent and unalterable.

Once the phones that were "pinging" are identified, the next step is to approach the Telco's who supply that particular service with a request for information ie....this is "your" phone number belonging to one of your clients, please give us the call register for that particular number for that particular night.

The providers will have the records that need to be traced, and the providers are only going to reveal those if they absolutely have to...ie, forced by court order.

Now, it seems, that is FINALLY happening.



I have high hopes...this is (should be) finally something outside of McCann control.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I just don't understand how in the freaking blazes they can get the phone records of thousands of random outsiders but not the people who were last to see her.

Personally I don't believe this. I need proof for it. Because a warrant will get you what you need on a case. Phone records are not hideable. The phone companies all have records.

IT may be sealed from the public, But I don't believe they were sealed from the police.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm not sure what you think that I've misunderstood but I totally disagree with this:

It is also questionable if a UK phone company would accept any request for it's records from a European Police Force at the time short of court order, so it is easy to see why this angle was not followed up...especially when the parents were clearly POI's.

It's not easy to see at all, to me, why this would not be followed up, especially if the parents were clearly POIs. On the contrary. You have a missing child, you want to solve the case, the parents have deleted their call history from the phones, you wonder if there was something in that phone history they might not want to let you see, you try to do whatever it takes to get the phone records. If someone at the other end refuses to help you that's not on your head but you don't shrug and say, oh well, let's not even try, it's too much of a bother. What with the thousands of people who donated money in Madeleine's name there could have been a lawyer or two who could have drafted some letters pro bono if the cost was an issue.

The providers will have the records that need to be traced, and the providers are only going to reveal those if they absolutely have to...ie, forced by court order.

The police can't get a court order for the parents' phone records but somehow Scotland Yard can get three thousand court orders to get the phone records of three thousand random outsiders who just happened to be in PdL at the time?

It makes no sense to me.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm not sure what you think that I've misunderstood but I totally disagree with this:



It's not easy to see at all, to me, why this would not be followed up, especially if the parents were clearly POIs. On the contrary. You have a missing child, you want to solve the case, the parents have deleted their call history from the phones, you wonder if there was something in that phone history they might not want to let you see, you try to do whatever it takes to get the phone records. If someone at the other end refuses to help you that's not on your head but you don't shrug and say, oh well, let's not even try, it's too much of a bother. What with the thousands of people who donated money in Madeleine's name there could have been a lawyer or two who could have drafted some letters pro bono if the cost was an issue.



The police can't get a court order for the parents' phone records but somehow Scotland Yard can get three thousand court orders to get the phone records of three thousand random outsiders who just happened to be in PdL at the time?

It makes no sense to me.

Why would the McCanns allow The Fund to be used to pay a lawyer to fight for something they themselves have covered up? :waitasec:

It is well known that the PJ encountered blocks and opposition every step of the way from the British Establishment, once the PR grew legs.

The UK justice system unfortunately does not resemble US cop shows where the FBI is just waiting to bust out search warrants and phone taps. This was top level diplomatic stuff, even the US Ambassador got involved.

Also, they aren't looking to trace three thousand random pings...they are looking for McCann pings only.

First of all, they have to locate that the McCann pings exist, when their phones say they didn't. Then they can apply for a warrant to investigate them further...it all takes time and judges who agree, again not a sure thing when you're talking IRL and Team McCann, who's influence seems to have reached the highest offices in the land.

This is not a normal set of circumstances, there are not a normal set of players. Things have gone on politically that we can barely imagine. Wikileaks confirmed that.

:cow:

 

[Donjeta]

Why would the McCanns allow The Fund to be used to pay a lawyer to fight for something they themselves have covered up? :waitasec:

Please point out where I said anything about using the Fund. You don't have to pay a lawyer who works pro bono. They're doing it for the good cause (or for the publicity).

It is well known that the PJ encountered blocks and opposition every step of the way from the British Establishment, once the PR grew legs.

The UK justice system unfortunately does not resemble US cop shows where the FBI is just waiting to bust out search warrants and phone taps. This was top level diplomatic stuff, even the US Ambassador got involved.

Also, they aren't looking to trace three thousand random pings...they are looking for McCann pings only.

Well it may be it's their intention but the news did say that they were looking to trace three thousand random pings to trace where everybody was.

First of all, they have to locate that the McCann pings exist, when their phones say they didn't. Then they can apply for a warrant to investigate them further...it all takes time and judges who agree, again not a sure thing when you're talking IRL and Team McCann, who's influence seems to have reached the highest offices in the land.

I don't think the phone itself keeps a ping record or if it does it's not something you can delete yourself. A phone pings the cell tower whenever it's turned on, not just when somebody calls, and the records they supposedly deleted were just the calls and texts.

This is not a normal set of circumstances, there are not a normal set of players. Things have gone on politically that we can barely imagine. Wikileaks confirmed that.

:cow:

 

[Tulessa]

is there anything new about the Scotland yard investgation? They promised arrests within weeks, before the end of the summer.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/41...robe-will-have-teeth-vows-Scotland-Yard-chief

I didn't post much in these threads, because I always felt that the MccAnn's were innocent.
Clues spark new Madeleine McCann hunt

THE hunt for Madeleine McCann took a decisive turn last night after her parents said for the first time that pieces of the jigsaw are finally fitting together
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/434704/Clues-spark-new-Madeleine-McCann-hunt

 

[redheadedgal]

Personally I don't believe this. I need proof for it. Because a warrant will get you what you need on a case. Phone records are not hideable. The phone companies all have records.

IT may be sealed from the public, But I don't believe they were sealed from the police.

ask the detectives working the JBR case how easy the phone records were to get? b/c their asking the DA for a subpoena sure wasn't enough!

 

[Tulessa]

I posted a link in the media thread, and heard last night that Scotland Yard was all over this breaking news, and considered it VERY credible.

 

[Tulessa]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-alive-witness-tells-2343495

New Madeleine McCann sensation: Witness tells barrister he saw girl ALIVE just weeks ago
6 Oct 2013 00:00
In a sensational development, he said he was stunned when the man confessed he had met the girl on a *Mediterranean island



Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-alive-witness-tells-2343495#ixzz2h6nSrEty
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

The confession was made at a party in the North West of England in August and the lawyer gave a full statement to his local force, Greater Manchester Police, the following day.

Officers are taking the information seriously and are set to prepare a file for Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange team, leading the hunt.

According to a source, the informant is being treated as a credible witness because of his profession as a barrister and a pillar of the community.

He has been in contact with detectives within the last few days as they act on his crucial statement.



Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-alive-witness-tells-2343495#ixzz2h6nkH2S5
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 

[Tulessa]

Also in the above link.

The police said they had generated 4,920 “actions” for the investigation team so far, with 2,123 having been completed.

Scotland Yard raised hope of a *breakthrough last week after police made an “unprecedented attack” on the phone data of holiday makers in the Portuguese resort.

They also revealed that there were currently 41 “persons of interest” being looked at by detectives.

Next Monday’s Crimewatch will also be broadcast in Holland and Germany.

It will reveal a “new focus” for the investigation team as well as *interviews with Kate and Gerry plus DCI Redwood.

 

[Donjeta]

When asked exactly what it was about the description he was given that forced him to act, the lawyer said: “I have told the police *everything that I was told about her.

“They know what that was and that is why they have acted. I was able to be a bit more specific than just the island but I haven’t been able to tell them exactly where the man said she was. I am now terrified that she has been moved elsewhere.”

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-alive-witness-tells-2343495#ixzz2h6yBduRA
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

Well if she hadn't been moved elsewhere before, I'm sure she has been now that the sighting has been reported by the Mirror :waitasec:

For a barrister this person doesn't have a lot of sense. Let the police investigate and in the meantime you shut up and avoid alerting the perps that they have been spotted.

 

[Tulessa]

Maddie McCann spotted alive on island?
By HLNtv.com Staff
updated 8:22 PM EDT, Mon October 07, 2013

Madeleine McCann, then 3, vanished from Portugal in 2007
Witness claims he was told Maddie was spotted alive on a Mediterranean island a few weeks ago, according to reports
Scotland Yard Detectives believe she could still be alive

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/10/07/maddie-mccann-spotted-alive-mediterranean-island