SIDEBAR #27- Arias/Alexander forum

[Love Never Fails]

Nore,
hi. Hope you come back. I went to the page you linked again but the letter from Arias asking for cameras wasn't there, just the letter she wrote asking for a continuance. Is there any way you can post it here? Thanks so much.

 

[Hatfield]

"Forgive me, as a former federal prosecutor for 17 years, it is hard to watch the Jodi Arias trial, not because she is guilty and deserves the death penalty but because of the incredibly poor performance by Judge Sherry Stephens. The trial has become a circus, and spun even more wildly out of control during jury deliberations...."

http://corruptioncrimecompliance.com/2013/05/the-jodi-arias-trial-justice-run-amok/
------

FYI-This former prosecutor doesn't like the way JSS handled the trial- thought he had some interesting points, I guess, since I'm not a lawyer.
------

Who he is:

"...Mr. Volkov spent 17 years as a federal prosecutor in the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia. As an Assistant US Attorney, he had over 75 jury trials and extensive federal court experience. He also served on the Senate and House Judiciary Committees as the chief crime and terrorism counsel for the respective committees. In addition, Mr. Volkov served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legislative Affairs of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and as a trial attorney in the DOJ’s Antitrust Division..."

http://corruptioncrimecompliance.com/about-michael-volkov-2/
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3 other articles he wrote about the missy:jail: trial:

Jodi Arias Trial: Prediction

Cross-Examinations in the Jodi Arias Trial

The Jodi Arias Trial — Lessons Learned

http://corruptioncrimecompliance.com/?s=jodi+arias&submit=

Thank you for providing this former federal Prosecutors valid criticism of the judge's failure to control the courtroom. The 1st one at top and the 3 articles near bottom do a wonderful job of stating legal reasons why the courtroom has been not properly controlled.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes or No,
when will the Bryan Hulsey case end or I should say when will the jury get to deliberate? I only followed the last couple of days. I see you are there a lot. You must know how close they are. Thanks. And do they have court today?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Thank you for providing this former federal Prosecutors valid criticism of the judge's failure to control the courtroom. The 1st one at top and the 3 articles near bottom do a wonderful job of stating legal reasons why the courtroom has been not properly controlled.

Amen.

 

[YESorNO]

Yorn...I went back to Nores post and she linked the page to Jauns Facebook support page. But it doesn't show a letter from Arias asking for cameras. That is the document I want to see. Nore has it on her facebookpage but I can't get there without signing in.

This may be the letter?: (but it's old- from 11/14)

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404928719757/?type=1

Or this from 11/26/2013:

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404968719753/?type=1

How about this from 12/5/2013?:

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404985386418/?type=1

 

[YESorNO]

Yes or No,
when will the Bryan Hulsey case end or I should say when will the jury get to deliberate? I only followed the last couple of days. I see you are there a lot. You must know how close they are. Thanks. And do they have court today?

They still have another "expert" and then, I think, closing. Don't know how long this will take.
Join our little group. It's great to "see"- by Twitter, of course- JM in action again.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yan-Hulsey-3&p=10884480&posted=1#post10884480

 

[katiecoolady]

Would a death sentence given by a second sentencing jury to Jodi Arias survive constitutional challenges?

"...even if Arias were to be sentenced to death by a new sentencing jury, there will be a wide of array of constitutional challenges that Arias could raise on appeal of a death sentence imposed by that new jury. Critically, there is established precedent from both the Ninth Circuit and the US Supreme Court that suggest the Double Jeopardy Clause permits giving prosecutors another shot at a death sentence through a second sentencing proceeding. But Arias could still reasonably raise a double jeopardy claim by urging these courts to reconsider these precedents and/or by claiming that some unique aspects of her case (e.g., that she presented a self-defense claim at her guilt trial or that Arizona has a unique three-stage capital sentencing process) should call for a different outcome on her behalf.

Beyond Double Jeopardy claims, Arias might also reasonable pursue Fifth Amendment due process claims and/or Eighth Amendment claims on appeal of a death sentence if imposed after a new sentencing phase trial before a new jury. As the article above suggests, all the publicity surrounding the first trial will make it hard to be confident that any new jury — especially after jurors are subject to the necessary "death-qualification process" — will be able to come without having prejudged some critical issues. In addition, the "evolving" nature of the Eighth Amendment means that any and every person sent to death row reasonable can, and usually will, challenge almost any and every novel aspect of the death sentencing process...."

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sente...jodi-arias-survive-constitutional-challe.html

:sigh:

Of course it will be appealed on ad to the point of nauseum on ridiculous things like her glasses being inconsistent in court thus influencing the jury BUT that's a ridiculous assertion seeing that MOST death row inmates in the State of AZ about a decade ago, were afforded the RIGHT of a second sentencing proceeding because the law was changed disallowing sentences to handed down by Judges alone. My point is many many death row inhabitants got this same process as mandated by law. The levels of ridiculousness these expensive appeals go to should be embarassing to someone and is largely unknown by taxpayers who are footing the bill. MILLIONS of dollars go in to these appeals over the years and they say "the death penalty is more expensive". That's why right there...but people are getting rich on fighting for them, that's for sure.
Blech.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Thank you for providing this former federal Prosecutors valid criticism of the judge's failure to control the courtroom. The 1st one at top and the 3 articles near bottom do a wonderful job of stating legal reasons why the courtroom has been not properly controlled.

How about when ALV was on stand and she kept saying inappropriate things and Juan waited for JSS to stop her and she never did? He was out there alone and did a bang up job. ALV asking him if he was angry with her and snorting that she would give him a time out and JSS just sat there? ALL the while JA was sneering. This is a joke. We are all waiting for the judge to step up and be a Judge, not just a viewer. If JA walks after only a few years, we can look back and know why.

 

[Love Never Fails]

They still have another "expert" and then, I think, closing. Don't know how long this will take.
Join our little group. It's great to "see"- by Twitter, of course- JM in action again.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...yan-Hulsey-3&p=10884480&posted=1#post10884480

Ok. Thanks. Poor guy. With these judges and defense attorneys, he is in a world alone!

 

[Love Never Fails]

YorN, went to Hulsey thread but no action till Monday. What is it with AZ courts? I was born and raised in Texas. Been in Indiana for 15 years but back there you don't mess with the judges and you don't get off death row. Well, except for burial.

 

[YESorNO]

Thank you for providing this former federal Prosecutors valid criticism of the judge's failure to control the courtroom. The 1st one at top and the 3 articles near bottom do a wonderful job of stating legal reasons why the courtroom has been not properly controlled.

I thought the former prosecutor did a very good job on stating the reasons why JSS had not done a "good" job and thought others would like to read it.

I'm always researching as I don't like to "speculate" on these things without some background info/links. I don't really like to say "maybe this, maybe that-that drives me crazy :scared:- so I research for more info- for things (legal papers, professional opinions, new articles, etc) to form my opinions and then I will post what I find here so other WSers that might be interested in what I find and read them too.
I also post other things, other than the trial, that are interesting to me for others to read/see. Some people might not want those other things, but I post anyway because life is just not about missy:jail: and this is the Sidebar. :facepalm:

 

[YESorNO]

YorN, went to Hulsey thread but no action till Monday. What is it with AZ courts? I was born and raised in Texas. Been in Indiana for 15 years but back there you don't mess with the judges and you don't get off death row. Well, except for burial.

AZ courts are off on Friday and it seems as if they make up their own "AZ hours", too. Seems they live in a different world and everything takes longer in their court.

 

[YESorNO]

Of course it will be appealed on ad to the point of nauseum on ridiculous things like her glasses being inconsistent in court thus influencing the jury BUT that's a ridiculous assertion seeing that MOST death row inmates in the State of AZ about a decade ago, were afforded the RIGHT of a second sentencing proceeding because the law was changed disallowing sentences to handed down by Judges alone. My point is many many death row inhabitants got this same process as mandated by law. The levels of ridiculousness these expensive appeals go to should be embarassing to someone and is largely unknown by taxpayers who are footing the bill. MILLIONS of dollars go in to these appeals over the years and they say "the death penalty is more expensive". That's why right there...but people are getting rich on fighting for them, that's for sure.
Blech.

Morning Kathy:seeya:

Yes, it does seem as if the appeals process can be ridiculous, but what can we do? I don't know too much about the appeals process, but I am reading up on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess, as I don't have firsthand experience of the appeals "system" like you do and some others on WS. It must be very frustrating, heartbreaking for you and makes you angry. :gaah:

 

[Hatfield]

How about when ALV was on stand and she kept saying inappropriate things and Juan waited for JSS to stop her and she never did? He was out there alone and did a bang up job. ALV asking him if he was angry with her and snorting that she would give him a time out and JSS just sat there? ALL the while JA was sneering. This is a joke. We are all waiting for the judge to step up and be a Judge, not just a viewer. If JA walks after only a few years, we can look back and know why.

I remember that all too well. I remember specifically how Juan politely asked the judge to admonish ALV, and the judge did nothing except ask ALV to just answer the question. The judge should have been much more forceful to the witness. It was uncalled for and totally embarrasing to the attorney. It could have even been grounds to threaten the witness with contempt.

Remember also how the other male witness that turned into a defense witness because he got mad that LE never called him back. Remember how rude and obnoxious he was on the stand. There were so many times I felt the judge should have threatened him with contempt of court. The guy that gave JA the Helio cell phone

And the gazillions of sidebars. Oh my. Any normal person should have reailzed that you dont just grant sidebars every time someone asks for it after the gazillionth one. It was incredible. It was like the judge trying the case in sidebar instead of in front of the jury. And here is a perfect example of what I am referring to when I was saying that the judge is even causing grounds for appeal by granting too much for JA. I could see a valid appeal argument being that there were so many sidebars that the jury didnt get to hear a lot of what needed to be said in front of the jury. So by the judge being too nice and granting all the sidebars, then JA can turn it around and possibly use it in appeals.
We didnt keep track, but we joked at the time that if we tabled up all the time spent at sidebar and compared it to time spent in front of the jury that it could approach 40-50% or more. Just unbelievable.

The sad part is we see this kind of stuff happening all over again right now during this phase. Nothing has changed and it doesnt seem like the judge has been directed to behave differently.

 

[YESorNO]

Well- see you all later- nice "talking" to y'all.

My hummingbirds are buzzing about and need their feeder refilled. :seeya:

 

[Love Never Fails]

I remember that all too well. I remember specifically how Juan politely asked the judge to admonish ALV, and the judge did nothing except ask ALV to just answer the question. The judge should have been much more forceful to the witness. It was uncalled for and totally embarrasing to the attorney. It could have even been grounds to threaten the witness with contempt.

Remember also how the other male witness that turned into a defense witness because he got mad that LE never called him back. Remember how rude and obnoxious he was on the stand. There were so many times I felt the judge should have threatened him with contempt of court. The guy that gave JA the Helio cell phone

And the gazillions of sidebars. Oh my. Any normal person should have reailzed that you dont just grant sidebars every time someone asks for it after the gazillionth one. It was incredible. It was like the judge trying the case in sidebar instead of in front of the jury. And here is a perfect example of what I am referring to when I was saying that the judge is even causing grounds for appeal. I could see a valid appeal argument being that there were so many sidebars that the jury didnt get to hear a lot of what needed to be said in front of the jury.
We didnt keep track, but we joked at the time that if we tabled up all the time spent at sidebar and compared it to time spent in front of the jury that it could approach 40-50% or more. Just unbelievable.

The sad part is we see this kind of stuff happening all over again right now during this phase. Nothing has changed and it doesnt seem like the judge has been directed to behave differently.

I remember and that joke of a witness was Gus Searcy. He got his 15 minutes on cable news.

 

[Love Never Fails]

This may be the letter?: (but it's old- from 11/14)

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404928719757/?type=1

Or this from 11/26/2013:

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404968719753/?type=1

How about this from 12/5/2013?:

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartin...s/pcb.281405005386416/281404985386418/?type=1

Yorn, Nore mentioned a letter JA recently wrote asking for cameras be allowed back in the courtroom, or that is the way I understood her. Because I thik that court filing yesterday for cameras was by the defendant. She is party 001.

 

[katiecoolady]

Morning Kathy:seeya:

Yes, it does seem as if the appeals process can be ridiculous, but what can we do? I don't know too much about the appeals process, but I am reading up on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess, as I don't have firsthand experience of the appeals "system" like you do and some others on WS. It must be very frustrating, heartbreaking for you and makes you angry. :gaah:

It kind of happens behind closed doors meaning media rarely covers it and they are poorly attended (death row appeals hearings). In fact the only time I attended one was because a. it was serious and did result in one being released and b. we had to testify. As I pointed out in my impact statement, we were usually the only people on the side of the State while the murderer's side was filled with legal garnering tips on how to save their poor little death row murderers, including arguing for their PAROLE. The money that goes in to these proceedings is astounding..sometimes more than the trial itself, years later.

One of the first appeals filed on behalf of my sister's killers was that I was allowed to remain in the courtroom following my testimony but between other times I was recalled (I was called up 4 times I think to clarify things). Even though that was entirely legal based on the Victim's Bill of Rights, it was still appealed on--meaning a courtroom assembled, the murderer was likely transported to another city to attend and a Judge present and arguments made. For something that on it's face was entirely legal and a moot point. This is the kind of thing that goes on and on and on and soft Judge's like Stevens are allowing now to try and avoid this kind of dragging and appealing later but it doesn't matter. It will still happen no matter her rulings. They are afforded every luxury at every stage of their "consequences" for demonstrating to our society they are in fact the worst of the worst, treated like Royalty in the legal sense. All paid for by us while homeless people, mentally ill people and children don't get funding..we'd prefer to spend our millions on first degree murderers.

 

[katiecoolady]

I remember that all too well. I remember specifically how Juan politely asked the judge to admonish ALV, and the judge did nothing except ask ALV to just answer the question. The judge should have been much more forceful to the witness. It was uncalled for and totally embarrasing to the attorney. It could have even been grounds to threaten the witness with contempt.

Remember also how the other male witness that turned into a defense witness because he got mad that LE never called him back. Remember how rude and obnoxious he was on the stand. There were so many times I felt the judge should have threatened him with contempt of court. The guy that gave JA the Helio cell phone

And the gazillions of sidebars. Oh my. Any normal person should have reailzed that you dont just grant sidebars every time someone asks for it after the gazillionth one. It was incredible. It was like the judge trying the case in sidebar instead of in front of the jury. And here is a perfect example of what I am referring to when I was saying that the judge is even causing grounds for appeal. I could see a valid appeal argument being that there were so many sidebars that the jury didnt get to hear a lot of what needed to be said in front of the jury.
We didnt keep track, but we joked at the time that if we tabled up all the time spent at sidebar and compared it to time spent in front of the jury that it could approach 40-50% or more. Just unbelievable.

The sad part is we see this kind of stuff happening all over again right now during this phase. Nothing has changed and it doesnt seem like the judge has been directed to behave differently.

I'll never forget when Stevens allowed ALV to disrupt the proceedings asking for an early bathroom break--FIVE minutes before the scheduled time--like she was going to pee her pants or something. Then instead of rushing straight to the bathroom, she took a little pitstop in front of Samantha Alexander to illegally approach her face to face in the courtroom and have a little inappropriate chat. Right after sitting on that witness stand with a faux full bladder, deeming Samantha's brother the worst case of domestic violence she'd ever seen. Based on one thing: the word of the woman who slaughtered him in cold blood.

 

[Hatfield]

I'll never forget when Stevens allowed ALV to disrupt the proceedings asking for an early bathroom break--FIVE minutes before the scheduled time--like she was going to pee her pants or something. Then instead of rushing straight to the bathroom, she took a little pitstop in front of Samantha Alexander to illegally approach her face to face in the courtroom and have a little inappropriate chat. Right after sitting on that witness stand with a faux full bladder, deeming Samantha's brother the worst case of domestic violence she'd ever seen. Based on one thing: the word of the woman who slaughtered him in cold blood.

Oh my goodness. I remember that too and how horrified I was that ALV did that. The Alexanders are very nice people and would never do anything wrong in the courtroom but I wish she would have slapped ALV silly right there. It was totally uncalled for and it seems it should have been illegal as well for a continuing witness to speak directly with the family of the victim in the courtroom.

At a minimum, the judge should have threatened her with contempt or something.