Something that has been bugging me... (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT)

[dodie20]

Sorry, CG, I started earlier today to answer you, but got called away.

As you already mentioned pareidolia, you are aware of the phenomena so you understand why I didn’t tell you first what I hear before you listened to it. I wanted to make sure I didn’t influence what you might hear by telling you my thoughts first. And actually, a more specific term for this would be folie à deux between you and I, folie à plusieurs if we got others involved, and as the instigator -- I would be the folie imposée. (I’m not a Francophile, those are the actual terms.)

Since you suggest something different than what I hear, I went back and listened to it with your words in mind to see if I could agree. I don’t. Where you hear the words “one” and “Hi”, what I still hear is the word “Hun’”, -- as in the shortened version of the word “Honey” -- a quaint little colloquial term of endearment used mostly in Southern states. I hear the word spoken twice -- the first time it sounds to me like the end of a sentence, and the second time it seems to be spoken at the beginning of the next sentence. So what I hear would be, “Blah blah blah something (before connection), Hun. Hun, we need a (or “to”)...(pause) POLICE!” (I could make suggestions on what she might have been saying in the first sentence that was started before the connection was made, but that would only be speculation.)

Were there not a difference in her voice, or if I was only reading the words, I could almost think she was speaking to the 911 operator and saying, "Hun, we need a... police." But it’s important (I think anyway) to notice the change in tone between the two. I think the first part which is usually quoted as “inaudible” (even in Kolar’s book) is Patsy speaking in an almost exhausted tone to someone else there in the room with her (I believe it sounds like the tone she would use with a child -- not her husband). Listen again, and see if you don’t notice the change in tone between the first 3 or 4 seconds and the rest of what she says when speaking to the 911 operator (starting with the word "Police!"). Also, I think when she almost shouts the word "Police", she may have been alerting anyone else in the room to the fact that she had them on the line.

From what I read about the interaction between PR and JR, (not speaking and looking like a couple on the verge of divorce), I don't think she would have been calling him hun. Also, it was reported that JR, in an angry voice told BR-we're not talking to you. If BR did what he was suspected of doing, I don't think PR would have been calling him hun either. Maybe PR heard the click of 911 answering and started talking before the operator was actually ready. moo

 

[dodie20]

Maybe we should have moved this conversation to the “911 Call” thread, or the “Who Has Heard Burke's Voice on The 911 Tape?” thread, but I suppose it’s too late now. There are numerous other threads also where this is discussed, and wengr has started another one recently on just the “What did you find?” portion. But here we are.

First, for the record, let’s look at what is usually transcribed as the conversation:

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
911: Explain to me what is going on, ok?
PR: We have a ...There’s a note left and our daughter is gone
911: A note was left and your daughter is gone?
PR: Yes.
911: How old is you daughter?
PR: She is six years old she is blond...six years old
911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please
911: Ok, what’s your name? Are you...
PR: Patsy Ramsey...I am the mother. Oh my God. Please.
911: I’m...Ok, I’m sending an officer over, ok?
PR: Please.
911: Do you know how long she’s been gone?
PR: No, I don’t, please, we just got up and she’s not here. Oh my God Please.
911: Ok.
PR: Please send somebody.
911: I am, honey.
PR: Please.
911: Take a deep breath (inaudible).
PR: Hurry, hurry, hurry (inaudible).
911: Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy?

You can listen to the better of the two originally released recordings here. I clipped the first part of it if you’d rather listen to just it right here.

Since the first part seems to be incomplete or interrupted sentences, I suppose that’s why it is usually just transcribed as “inaudible” -- even the 911 operator’s answering the call with “911 emergency...” is left out, as well as her interrupted “What’s going on there, ma’am?” (which she has to repeat) is transcribed as “inaudible” the first time she tries to say it. So if we fill in the first part with what I believe is said in red (including what the 911 operator clearly says), it should look more like this (I couldn’t remember how to do columns in HTML for comparing side-by-side, so here’s a picture instead):

I hope you have a decent set of headphones, because it would help.

The delay in responding, which you mentioned as a “problem”, I’m certain is not due to an electronic delay. The call was made from a regular landline phone somewhere in the house (I hope you noticed my thought on which one it was here) I think the delay in responding is simply because of her being distracted with the other conversation that was going on before she realized the call had been answered. That’s why (IMO) when she does respond to the 911 operator, it’s almost a shouted “POLICE!” -- as if (I think) to alert John to make anyone else in the room quiet.

Remember that if you believe the parents staged this thing or altered any evidence at all (as I do believe), they were probably up almost all night under devastating circumstances. They were tired, needing sleep, distraught, and pushing themselves to hold it all together before the police arrived. I wouldn’t expect either one of them to be “at the top of their game” at that point, and I think that’s probably why they both made what we think in hindsight were little mistakes.

Try listening again to the beginning of the recorded 911 call with all this in mind while you look at and read the two versions above. See if it doesn’t all make a little more sense. Then maybe we’ll continue this little exercise and go on to the end of the call on the thread titled “911 Call”.

One problem I have, is PR runs a lot of syllables together in a kind of slurring way, so even in areas where we know for sure what she said, if I didn't have a transcript, I'd think she was saying something else. At one point she said , 'she's not here', but it sounds like, 'she's right here'. Another time she said, 'Oh my God. Please', but it sounds like, 'oh my goddess'. Another time she said, 'please send somebody', and to me, it sounds like, 'the cop is your buddy'...completely off mark, and not even close to what she actually said. For me, her words are hard to decipher with a transcript, and almost impossible without one. moo

 

[Charterhouse]

I put on my Bose headphones and I still can't make out what PR is saying. Sorry.

Someone earlier this year even slowed this down for me to hear and I could not make it out. I am sorry I forget who it was.

I think I am just not really good at making out this kind of thing.

I do hear Patsy say something then it seems to me she heard someone answer and that got her attention and she then said "Police". It was if something else had her attention and then when she heard someone answer her attention was directed at that person. JMO and I can't say it is worth much regarding this call.

Sorry I can't make it out.

I do hear different distinct voices at the end of the tape but I can't make that out either.

 

[dodie20]

I put on my Bose headphones and I still can't make out what PR is saying. Sorry.

Someone earlier this year even slowed this down for me to hear and I could not make it out. I am sorry I forget who it was.

I think I am just not really good at making out this kind of thing.

I do hear Patsy say something then it seems to me she heard someone answer and that got her attention and she then said "Police". It was if something else had her attention and then when she heard someone answer her attention was directed at that person. JMO and I can't say it is worth much regarding this call.

Sorry I can't make it out.

I do hear different distinct voices at the end of the tape but I can't make that out either.

Don't feel bad, lol, because you're in the same boat I am. What others hear as 'hon we need em', I hear as, 'how we knew'. And where they hear 'sorry', I hear as 'the story' or 'destroy'. Since I can't tell the difference between certain sounds, I'm thinking it might have even been some kind of prayer. Like '...destroy. Power Renew'. IDK though, because I've looked around and there doesn't seem to be any particular prayer that uses these words. moo

 

[CircuitGuy]

Try listening again to the beginning of the recorded 911 call with all this in mind while you look at and read the two versions above. See if it doesn’t all make a little more sense. Then maybe we’ll continue this little exercise and go on to the end of the call on the thread titled “911 Call”.

I moved my reply to the 911 call thread.

 

[borndem]

Yes, I do. She was the golden child.

Agreed, Linda7NJ -- Just think about the dinner conversations among the 4 of them -- or the 3 of them if JR was o/o/town or still at work....

A new pageant dress or new shoes or new hair style, etc., etc. Some little song & dance she will need to practice for the next pageant, or a pageant game Mommy found for JBR. And then an "Oh, Burke, how was your day in school today?" She was daddy's girl, and mommy spent all of her time with JB talking about the last pageant or the next one, or mommy telling that same story again about something funny that happened at the Miss America pageant. All that silly girlie stuff. Giggling and cooing, and mommy just loving it. Ad nauseam. BR's always trying to out do his little sister but never can. Maddening. And he's only nine years old.

 

[gramcracker]

It's hard to believe a) someone had the plan of removing the body after the police left, b) someone thought the police would leave quickly with a kidnapper on the loose, or c) someone "decided to manipulate evidence" with the police in the house at the time.

The police request that they search the house "from top to bottom" gave JR a chance to head straight to the WC, according to Kolar. This suggests JR may have known where the body was, and this was his golden opportunity to be the one to discover it, making him look less guilty.

I can't see how they called the police and expected them to leave quickly or not search the house. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, but I called the police and said someone sneaked into our house and kidnapped our daughter without anyone hearing anything, I would expect 24-hour police protection until they figured out what we were dealing with. I would expect the police to kick everyone out of the house and search it for any booby traps and then for evidence. I wouldn't expect an opportunity to touch anything after the police arrived.

The reason I would expect such a strong response is they were saying they had a criminal with ninja-like abilities who preys on young children. It's about the most terrifying criminal I can imagine. Whoever did it lucked out that they the police response at first wasn't commensurate to the crime.

it's also hard to believe that JR was planning to leave town 30 minutes after the discovery, so that sheds some light on his self-perception and also his perception of how LE could be managed/manipulated. we are normal but we are comparing how we would act/react to the behavior of people who are far from normal

LEOs did search the house and walked the outside perimeter, and that's about all they were permitted to do. the Rs expected that their wealth and social position would afford them special treatment and that expectation was correct. one of the first orders given from those in command at BPD, first thing that morning, was that the Rs were to be treated as victims rather than suspects and that nothing should be done that might offend them. they ran with that ball and PR even requested that Officer French remove his uniform shirt and gun belt while he was posted inside. after the home was declared a crime scene, the Rs slithered out of going to a nearby hotel to be questioned. the blame for every bit of what was allowed and which protocols were not followed lies at the feet of Koby and Eller, not the boots on the ground

 

[borndem]

I haven't read nearly enough to land on BR or anyone else specific as my perp.

What strikes me about the staging (And I do feel strongly there was staging here) is that it seems almost Matlock or Murder She Wrote in its presentation. Does that make sense. I am having a hard time conveying how weirdly amateurish I feel the staging was. Sort of all over the place.

Agreed, tlcya -- As was said earlier -- they panicked, regardless of whodunit. And staging had to be done; a story had to be cooked-up, and this was something that was new to them, of course. And like all the rest of the perpetrators, they way under-estimated how smart and experienced the LEO's were. And although this case has never been solved, they did not stage the perfect crime....but it might as well have been, for all the justice that was done here.

ETA: And how many times have we seen the LEO's, when they initially view the crime scene and get the 1st account of what happened, when they think, "Something's not right here," at the very get-go? And you can only change your story a little bit to make it sound more plausible...

 

[gramcracker]

Agreed, Linda7NJ -- Just think about the dinner conversations among the 4 of them -- or the 3 of them if JR was o/o/town or still at work....

A new pageant dress or new shoes or new hair style, etc., etc. Some little song & dance she will need to practice for the next pageant, or a pageant game Mommy found for JBR. And then an "Oh, Burke, how was your day in school today?" She was daddy's girl, and mommy spent all of her time with JB talking about the last pageant or the next one, or mommy telling that same story again about something funny that happened at the Miss America pageant. All that silly girlie stuff. Giggling and cooing, and mommy just loving it. Ad nauseam. BR's always trying to out do his little sister but never can. Maddening. And he's only nine years old.

in one of the books it was related that BR was PR's golden child for a few years until JB became the mini-me pageant princess. adults have difficulty with being replaced, let alone children

 

[questfortrue]

in one of the books it was related that BR was PR's golden child for a few years until JB became the mini-me pageant princess. adults have difficulty with being replaced, let alone children

Check out the body language in this family photo: Go to JonBenet Investigation Part 2 on youtube. It's at 3:22 min. into the video.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

I don't believe it was to throw off investigators as much as to "undo" what has been done and offer some comfort in death.
Putting the clean panties that JonBenet had wanted....was part of that.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Regardless if her body was removed or as it was left in the wine cellar ... There was staging.
After several deep breaths...I'm still not sure exactly what it is you're trying to get at. The scene was clearly altered, staged, with or without the note. The note was just adds another layer. all IMO

Ummm....

 

[borndem]

I believe the original plan may have been to remove all evidence from the house, but the biggest evidence of all (JB's dead body) could not be removed without neighbors seeing the activity. So plan B (or C or D) is to put or leave the body in the basement. In that case, staging is a must.

They could have waited until around 6:00 -- 6:30am (while it was still dark or close to dark) & JR could have taken her body out -- pull the car around back to do it -- and dumped her body and then, on the way home he could have stopped at a quick-mart type place to buy batteries, or similar for one of the children's toys. "So & so needed them before we left for the plane ride," type thing. That would have covered the body-dumping as long as JR did buy batteries somewhere to give him an alibi for the trip. Just a thought...

 

[DeeDee249]

I think whoever made it, did so, as JonBenet lay there unconscious from the head bash.

My son loved rope, sticks, duct tape and tying knots at that age...add in some big empty boxes and he would entertain himself for days!

BR was a Boy Scout and he sailed. He knew about knots. There was a conversation LE had with Patsy where she is asked about it and she said that BR was always playing with ropes "trying to make a boat or something" (her words). I agree the cord was made on the spot in the basement in the area near the paint tote. There were splinters from the paintbrush found on that carpet, right near the paint tote.
As far as Patsy's purchase of the duct tape and cord- the duct tape is a fairly common household item. Nothing odd there. As for the nylon cord- there was discussion years ago that Patsy, who was an avid painter, may have used both the duct tape and the cord to make a sling. This is how a sling may have been used: you roll up the unframed painting into a tube, use duct tape to secure the roll, and slip the cord through the hole of the tube, tie it into a "handle". This way the paintings can be carried without folding them.

 

[JezyUn]

Dysfunctional families do not acknowledge that problems exist. They don’t talk about them or confront them. As a result, family members learn to repress emotions and disregard their own needs. They become “survivors.” They develop behaviors that help them deny, ignore, or avoid difficult emotions. They detach themselves. They don’t talk. They don’t touch. They don’t confront. They don’t feel. They don’t trust. The identity and emotional development of the members of a dysfunctional family are often inhibited

Attention and energy focus on the family member who is ill or addicted. The co-dependent person typically sacrifices his or her needs to take care of a person who is sick. When co-dependents place other people’s health, welfare and safety before their own, they can lose contact with their own needs, desires, and sense of self.

A wife may cover for her alcoholic husband; a mother may make excuses for a truant child; or a father may “pull some strings” to keep his child from suffering the consequences of delinquent behavior

~

Perhaps JR and PR found JBR and knew what BR did, and of course following the denial-like behavior of dysfunction, did not even alert BR that they knew, in this way, he of course would not be telling others, as I am sure if he was the one who did it he had no conscience anyway.. I think they instinctively covered up for him once they got him out of the house . Dysfunction is a process and each family member has a well rooted role and each one acts out their part, it is my belief that this family was very ill on many levels.

I do not know ALL of the evidence but the BR did it and PR and or JR covered it up, seems to fit when you look at the staging and the other evidence add on top a dysfunctional dynamic that would explain it all (especially the staging) perfectly IMO
I apologize that my post is not related directly to the weapon and picture posted by the thread starter and the discussion about it, I was just reading all the replies and wanted to add my thoughts.

 

[Anyhoo]

They could have waited until around 6:00 -- 6:30am (while it was still dark or close to dark) & JR could have taken her body out -- pull the car around back to do it -- and dumped her body and then, on the way home he could have stopped at a quick-mart type place to buy batteries, or similar for one of the children's toys. "So & so needed them before we left for the plane ride," type thing. That would have covered the body-dumping as long as JR did buy batteries somewhere to give him an alibi for the trip. Just a thought...

Him leaving the house would have raised all kinds of questions and I do not believe removing her body from the house could safely be done. I am sure JR very much wanted to get her out of the house but determined doing so was not feasible. What I suspect is the ransom scheme was devised very quickly by panicked, frightened parents who found themselves in an unexpected situation where they were both desperate to avoid the consequences of one or more behaviors, the main one being the murder. It was not carefully thought through. Probably the RN was written first with the intention of getting her body out of the house and only then did they realize it would implicate them even more doing that. So the fallback plan was to keep the RN and leave her in the basement.

 

[madeleine]

The image below, taken from the Forums for Justice forums, is a photograph of the ligature or garrote used during the murder of this child. I freely admit that this might well have been discussed to death and I missed it, but for whatever reason I never really paid any attention to this weapon before.

I really don't get how her hair got entwined in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick....:waitasec:....IF it was just staging,why so brutal?she wasn't moving anymore,no?I don't have any explanation for it,help?

 

[dodie20]

I really don't get how her hair got entwined in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick....:waitasec:....IF it was just staging,why so brutal?she wasn't moving anymore,no?I don't have any explanation for it,help?

Exactly. All I see is viciousness. And considering there was evidence of 'undoing', this being staging makes even less sense. I mean why would somebody undo, just to turn around and stage something so brutal? IMO, they don' t jibe with each other. all moo.

 

[DeeDee249]

I really don't get how her hair got entwined in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick....:waitasec:....IF it was just staging,why so brutal?she wasn't moving anymore,no?I don't have any explanation for it,help?

I don't necessarily see it as a brutal pulling of the hair, I just think it was made in a panic and as she wasn't conscious, no need to be careful.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I really don't get how her hair got entwined in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick....:waitasec:....IF it was just staging,why so brutal?she wasn't moving anymore,no?I don't have any explanation for it,help?

There was no staging for police. IMO.

 

[Darlene733510]

The garrote does not look to me like it is made from a rope. When I think of a rope I think of fibers twisted together that are more round in shape. What this garrote looks like IMO is similar to perhaps a shoelace from hightop tennis shoes, or the drawstring from sweatpants, or something similar. It is more flat than it is round. I guess it doesn't really matter, since it was discovered that PR had purchased it there in CO.
If the garrote was used by the same person who molested her, then all that was left to do was clean her up, put on the panties and long johns, wrap her in the blanket, and put her in the wc. I guess that could be called staging, but by putting her in the wc, was IMO based on the idea that LE may not find her. When they hung around, JR decided to bring her body up from the basement.