Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[Steve13]

<modsnip>

'The 'LBT Global' dossier was facilitated by a very small entity based in a village on an island off the South coast of England. It is run by local people and the manager, or 'CEO', has been employed there since its inception. The Lucie Blackman Trust was formed by Tim Blackman following the death of his daughter Lucie in Japan. The case was a cause celebre in the UK and Japan. The family and the Trust parted ways in 2020 and the entity removed Lucie's name while saying it was going to take on new roles. News of LBT Global's rebranding from The Lucie Blackman Trust appeared days before ED went missing. Esther Dingley may well have had an accident, in which case the story will be a one-day wonder when she is found. But she may not have had an accident, which is why the UK media is watching intently. If it's the latter, the story - and the trust - will be on front pages. <modsnip>

 

[capitola51]

The registered office of LBT Global is in Sandown, Isle of Wight and they list 2 employees. A lot of the capital seems to be in a recent property purchase, vehicles and computer equipment. Their web site is https://www.lbt.global/
You can look at the registered charity info including financial statements here: LBT GLOBAL - Charity 1118143
It does receive a 40K annual grant from the government, also reports “… enjoy a solid relationship with key government departments …”
and on its mission statement in the 2020 financial report notes
“The Charity has had another successful year assisting many families with repatriations, familial abductions and helping stranded Britons return home.”
What they can and can’t do is here: https://www.lbt.global/what-we-can-can-t-do

 

[Grouse]

<modsnip>

'The 'LBT Global' dossier was facilitated by a very small entity based in a village on an island off the South coast of England. It is run by local people and the manager, or 'CEO', has been employed there since its inception. The Lucie Blackman Trust was formed by Tim Blackman following the death of his daughter Lucie in Japan. The case was a cause celebre in the UK and Japan. The family and the Trust parted ways in 2020 and the entity removed Lucie's name while saying it was going to take on new roles. News of LBT Global's rebranding from The Lucie Blackman Trust appeared days before ED went missing. Esther Dingley may well have had an accident, in which case the story will be a one-day wonder when she is found. But she may not have had an accident, which is why the UK media is watching intently. If it's the latter, the story - and the trust - will be on front pages. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

I'm just sort of left wondering what your goal is here? You pointing out the fact that LBT is a small organisation, and your repeated mentions of a "hole" in a "dodgy" dossier is puzzling me a bit <modsnip>

Please correct me if I am wrong, but your intention seems to me to be to discredit the LBT. MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

The registered office of LBT Global is in Sandown, Isle of Wight and they list 2 employees. A lot of the capital seems to be in a recent property purchase, vehicles and computer equipment. Their web site is https://www.lbt.global/
You can look at the registered charity info including financial statements here: LBT GLOBAL - Charity 1118143
It does receive a 40K annual grant from the government, also reports “… enjoy a solid relationship with key government departments …”
and on its mission statement in the 2020 financial report notes
“The Charity has had another successful year assisting many families with repatriations, familial abductions and helping stranded Britons return home.”
What they can and can’t do is here: https://www.lbt.global/what-we-can-can-t-do

More to the point, I sure would like to know what they've actually done and if anyone has been found through their efforts (and why they needed to buy property and...as a teacher, why they write in all caps on their home page!)

 

[capitola51]

All I can tell you is that the LBT Global web site was created with wix.com Website Builder and the lbt.global domain was set up on 2020-06-30. The rebranding was therefore done long before accepting the ED case, so there is provably no causal relationship there.
What LBT Global do is handle and co-ordinate missing persons cases with specific relevance to UK citizens, that's why I posted the what they do and don't do link. They do media and communications and take some of the stress from the relatives. LBT Global don't do any searches themselves.
As mentioned in the financial statements ( LBT GLOBAL - Charity 1118143 ), they purchased a property presumably to remove the burden of leasing office space and direct more funds to charitable activity. The majority of the income shown in the financial statements is from donations and legacies. The property was purchased in 2018/2019.
Finally, the website source text is correctly cased but seems to be converted to upper case by wix.com hosting service so I imagine that’s a style choice rather than an all caps thing.

 

[Grouse]

More to the point, I sure would like to know what they've actually done and if anyone has been found through their efforts (and why they needed to buy property and...as a teacher, why they write in all caps on their home page!)

Struggling to see what relevance that even has to the actual case, they are representing the victim and helping to handle the media for them.

 

[Grouse]

Finally, the website source text is correctly cased but seems to be converted to upper case by wix.com hosting service so I imagine that’s a style choice rather than an all caps thing.

Loads of websites use that style, it is hardly relevant to the case.

 

[Steve13]

Loads of websites use that style, it is hardly relevant to the case.

Hi, Grouse, and thanks Capitola. Let me explain.

I have not been at this site long. It's a pretty good thing and I want to make sure I stay within the rules. I can see there is a need, for good reason, for nuance and sophistication in how things are expressed. I have no objection at all to being deleted or 'snipped' by editors. I will try to explain my thinking about LBT. It's a side-issue to the case, perhaps, but an interesting one nonetheless. If I go outside the rules then I would actively appreciate editors doing their thing.

Upon reading the dossier, I was struck by a gaping hole at its centre. 1. It is quite clear that the couple were very experienced hill-walkers. ED was walking alone in a mountainous area and had previously (exceptions the prior 24 hours) been in frequent comms. For experienced walkers, or actually anyone, a daily check-in at the end of the day once safe would be the bare minimum of comms. The 3 day delay in ED's disappearance being reported seems therefore, at face value, extraordinary. 2. Given that ED had extended her absence in the way she had, a 3 day delay in reporting a solo walker missing in the Pyrenees, following a much-extended absence from the gite, could only reasonably be explained by firm evidence of her intention to return on that date and an explanation of whether she had been in comms over that period; or, if not, why there was such confidence that had not had an accident over that time and that she would return to Gascony on 25 Nov. The dossier and related material provides no such evidence and indeed makes no mention at all.

The effect of this hole, and other statements which are manifestly not true, gives the dossier the appearance of a (bad) PR document. Producing a PR document is fine, but not necessarily the same thing as supporting the 'victims' of a disappearance and statements/dossiers need to be understood in a way which fits the purpose of the statement/dossier.

The Lucie Blackman Trust opened in the wake of Lucie Blackman's terrible fate. Its modest purpose was to provide safety advice and information for potentially vulnerable travellers. Tim Blackman, who founded it, has at times had a complicated relationship with it. In 2020, the trust parted ways with the Blackmans, purchased a small property previously serving at a tearoom and a sough to expand its role. It also changed a very localised brand to an apparently international one which appears to reflect a certain amount of ambition. This reflected its intention to provide new services and, likely, to find new funding sources. The changes are easy enough to see at various sources including UK companies House. They took place, administratively, from mid-2020 and were publicised by LBT via press releases in early November 2020, a few days before ED disappeared.

PR companies which handle high-profile cases where someone has disappeared (e.g. Madeline McCann) are invariably serious operators with much experience of international media; not a small body in a tea-room on the Isle of Wight with no previous such experience. ED's disappearance, as reflected by recent Sunday Times coverage, has considerable potential to be very high profile.

It may be, therefore, that the giant 'hole' at the centre of the LBT narrative and dossier is a function not of anything untoward on DC's part, but of LBT's inexperience.

Phew! There it is! Any thoughts?

 

[capitola51]

Hi, Grouse, and thanks Capitola. Let me explain.

I have not been at this site long. It's a pretty good thing and I want to make sure I stay within the rules. I can see there is a need, for good reason, for nuance and sophistication in how things are expressed. I have no objection at all to being deleted or 'snipped' by editors. I will try to explain my thinking about LBT. It's a side-issue to the case, perhaps, but an interesting one nonetheless. If I go outside the rules then I would actively appreciate editors doing their thing.

Upon reading the dossier, I was struck by a gaping hole at its centre. 1. It is quite clear that the couple were very experienced hill-walkers. ED was walking alone in a mountainous area and had previously (exceptions the prior 24 hours) been in frequent comms. For experienced walkers, or actually anyone, a daily check-in at the end of the day once safe would be the bare minimum of comms. The 3 day delay in ED's disappearance being reported seems therefore, at face value, extraordinary. 2. Given that ED had extended her absence in the way she had, a 3 day delay in reporting a solo walker missing in the Pyrenees, following a much-extended absence from the gite, could only reasonably be explained by firm evidence of her intention to return on that date and an explanation of whether she had been in comms over that period; or, if not, why there was such confidence that had not had an accident over that time and that she would return to Gascony on 25 Nov. The dossier and related material provides no such evidence and indeed makes no mention at all.

The effect of this hole, and other statements which are manifestly not true, gives the dossier the appearance of a (bad) PR document. Producing a PR document is fine, but not necessarily the same thing as supporting the 'victims' of a disappearance and statements/dossiers need to be understood in a way which fits the purpose of the statement/dossier.

The Lucie Blackman Trust opened in the wake of Lucie Blackman's terrible fate. Its modest purpose was to provide safety advice and information for potentially vulnerable travellers. Tim Blackman, who founded it, has at times had a complicated relationship with it. In 2020, the trust parted ways with the Blackmans, purchased a small property previously serving at a tearoom and a sough to expand its role. It also changed a very localised brand to an apparently international one which appears to reflect a certain amount of ambition. This reflected its intention to provide new services and, likely, to find new funding sources. The changes are easy enough to see at various sources including UK companies House. They took place, administratively, from mid-2020 and were publicised by LBT via press releases in early November 2020, a few days before ED disappeared.

PR companies which handle high-profile cases where someone has disappeared (e.g. Madeline McCann) are invariably serious operators with much experience of international media; not a small body in a tea-room on the Isle of Wight with no previous such experience. ED's disappearance, as reflected by recent Sunday Times coverage, has considerable potential to be very high profile.

It may be, therefore, that the giant 'hole' at the centre of the LBT narrative and dossier is a function not of anything untoward on DC's part, but of LBT's inexperience.

Phew! There it is! Any thoughts?

As Grouse remarked, LBT Global is hardly relevant. I would go further and say it is totally irrelevant. I looked at the charity because I think it is important to ‘turn every page’ when researching. I found nothing other than a growing charity that clearly fills a need and supports relatives logistically and financially. There is absolutely no connection to anything LBT Global did before being contacted by (presumably) DC and that would likely be well after the Spanish and French authorities were contacted and also likely after the initial big searches.
LBT Global would not have any of the information in the dossier, although they may have helped edit it, they would have to gotten all of the information from DC. You might want to consider that the dossier is ‘additional background information’ and some facts may have been held back at the request of the authorities.

 

[Grouse]

Hi, Grouse, and thanks Capitola. Let me explain.

I have not been at this site long. It's a pretty good thing and I want to make sure I stay within the rules. I can see there is a need, for good reason, for nuance and sophistication in how things are expressed. I have no objection at all to being deleted or 'snipped' by editors. I will try to explain my thinking about LBT. It's a side-issue to the case, perhaps, but an interesting one nonetheless. If I go outside the rules then I would actively appreciate editors doing their thing.

Upon reading the dossier, I was struck by a gaping hole at its centre. 1. It is quite clear that the couple were very experienced hill-walkers. ED was walking alone in a mountainous area and had previously (exceptions the prior 24 hours) been in frequent comms. For experienced walkers, or actually anyone, a daily check-in at the end of the day once safe would be the bare minimum of comms. The 3 day delay in ED's disappearance being reported seems therefore, at face value, extraordinary. 2. Given that ED had extended her absence in the way she had, a 3 day delay in reporting a solo walker missing in the Pyrenees, following a much-extended absence from the gite, could only reasonably be explained by firm evidence of her intention to return on that date and an explanation of whether she had been in comms over that period; or, if not, why there was such confidence that had not had an accident over that time and that she would return to Gascony on 25 Nov. The dossier and related material provides no such evidence and indeed makes no mention at all.

The effect of this hole, and other statements which are manifestly not true, gives the dossier the appearance of a (bad) PR document. Producing a PR document is fine, but not necessarily the same thing as supporting the 'victims' of a disappearance and statements/dossiers need to be understood in a way which fits the purpose of the statement/dossier.

The Lucie Blackman Trust opened in the wake of Lucie Blackman's terrible fate. Its modest purpose was to provide safety advice and information for potentially vulnerable travellers. Tim Blackman, who founded it, has at times had a complicated relationship with it. In 2020, the trust parted ways with the Blackmans, purchased a small property previously serving at a tearoom and a sough to expand its role. It also changed a very localised brand to an apparently international one which appears to reflect a certain amount of ambition. This reflected its intention to provide new services and, likely, to find new funding sources. The changes are easy enough to see at various sources including UK companies House. They took place, administratively, from mid-2020 and were publicised by LBT via press releases in early November 2020, a few days before ED disappeared.

PR companies which handle high-profile cases where someone has disappeared (e.g. Madeline McCann) are invariably serious operators with much experience of international media; not a small body in a tea-room on the Isle of Wight with no previous such experience. ED's disappearance, as reflected by recent Sunday Times coverage, has considerable potential to be very high profile.

It may be, therefore, that the giant 'hole' at the centre of the LBT narrative and dossier is a function not of anything untoward on DC's part, but of LBT's inexperience.

Phew! There it is! Any thoughts?

Hi,
on the point of the delay in reporting, I'm pretty sure I have said this before up thread, but I have seen on other cases where there has been a delay like that and you think why did they wait that long? Easy to judge as an outsider but you have to put yourself in the place of the person making the decision. For example I thought in the Joanna Yates case that her boyfriend seemed to report it a bit late when he got back. My initial thought was that I would have been on it much sooner, but then when I tried to put myself in his position I realised that in the actual moment I'd have possibly been the same, clinging to some hope of a rational explanation before finally admitting to myself that something was indeed wrong and therefore I had to make that call. To me that is not a hole in the dossier at all, nor a reason to point the finger at DC - which, I'm sorry, but you do seem to be doing.

On the points about LBT I don't really see how they have a bearing on sleuthing the case, and if these people have helped DC and the rest of the family, from their modest premises on the IOW, then I applaud it. Criticism upthread on the likes of capitalised fonts on a website is ridiculous and nothing more than egotistical posturing - IMO MOO.

 

[Steve13]

As Grouse remarked, LBT Global is hardly relevant. I would go further and say it is totally irrelevant. I looked at the charity because I think it is important to ‘turn every page’ when researching. I found nothing other than a growing charity that clearly fills a need and supports relatives logistically and financially. There is absolutely no connection to anything LBT Global did before being contacted by (presumably) DC and that would likely be well after the Spanish and French authorities were contacted and also likely after the initial big searches.
LBT Global would not have any of the information in the dossier, although they may have helped edit it, they would have to gotten all of the information from DC. You might want to consider that the dossier is ‘additional background information’ and some facts may have been held back at the request of the authorities.

With respect, the reference to LBT's inexperience is not irrelevant. It is to theorise why there is an unaddressed and vast hole at the centre of the dossier in respect of the period 22-25 Nov.

 

[Steve13]

Hi,
on the point of the delay in reporting, I'm pretty sure I have said this before up thread, but I have seen on other cases where there has been a delay like that and you think why did they wait that long? Easy to judge as an outsider but you have to put yourself in the place of the person making the decision. For example I thought in the Joanna Yates case that her boyfriend seemed to report it a bit late when he got back. My initial thought was that I would have been on it much sooner, but then when I tried to put myself in his position I realised that in the actual moment I'd have possibly been the same, clinging to some hope of a rational explanation before finally admitting to myself that something was indeed wrong and therefore I had to make that call. To me that is not a hole in the dossier at all, nor a reason to point the finger at DC - which, I'm sorry, but you do seem to be doing.

On the points about LBT I don't really see how they have a bearing on sleuthing the case, and if these people have helped DC and the rest of the family, from their modest premises on the IOW, then I applaud it. Criticism upthread on the likes of capitalised fonts on a website is ridiculous and nothing more than egotistical posturing - IMO MOO.

Yes, I think it makes absolute sense to consider the perspective of DC when considering the period 22-25 Nov. He is an experienced walker. His partner was walking alone in a mountainous area late in the year. She checked in regularly with him each day. Her comms stopped completely on the afternoon on 22 Nov. Now, my perspective. I am an experienced climber. I do not know anyone who does not leave their route and a check in time with someone else. If someone else gave me their route and check in time and they failed to check in by then I would give them a couple of extra hours then ring local police/mountain rescue the same day. Again, I do not know anyone who would not do that. It's how you save lives. People often fall and are injured and may die if left out overnight. The notion that I would wait 2 or 3 days to alert the rescue services is absurd. This is the hole at the centre of the dossier.

 

[Steve13]

A final point, perhaps, about the narrative contained within the LBT dossier and related details. The 'hole' of 22-25 Nov referred to above could be filled by new information. For example, Laura Adomaitye is unambiguous that ED told her she had split, at least temporarily, from DC. Also that ED carried far too little rations. Other posters here have shown how ED's pitching skills were very seriously lacking. If the narrative were that DC and ED were going through a rocky patch, that ED was not consistent with her checking in and that she had limited overnighting skills when on her own, then DC may quite legitimately have thought she had returned to the campervan, would not necessarily contact him and was perfectly safe. This could explain why he raised the alarm only when she did not appear on 25 Nov. But at present, of course, this is not the narrative in the dossier.

 

[ZaZara]

Hi,
on the point of the delay in reporting, I'm pretty sure I have said this before up thread, but I have seen on other cases where there has been a delay like that and you think why did they wait that long? Easy to judge as an outsider but you have to put yourself in the place of the person making the decision. For example I thought in the Joanna Yates case that her boyfriend seemed to report it a bit late when he got back. My initial thought was that I would have been on it much sooner, but then when I tried to put myself in his position I realised that in the actual moment I'd have possibly been the same, clinging to some hope of a rational explanation before finally admitting to myself that something was indeed wrong and therefore I had to make that call. To me that is not a hole in the dossier at all, nor a reason to point the finger at DC - which, I'm sorry, but you do seem to be doing.

On the points about LBT I don't really see how they have a bearing on sleuthing the case, and if these people have helped DC and the rest of the family, from their modest premises on the IOW, then I applaud it. Criticism upthread on the likes of capitalised fonts on a website is ridiculous and nothing more than egotistical posturing - IMO MOO.

This was discussed in #Thread 3

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

@CoverMeCagney wrote:

Ok. This article says he reported Esther missing on Tuesday 24th. Some people here thought that was suspicious because she wasn’t due home until 25th,

She says the phone reception was patchy but she’d try and contact him Monday. He probably started worrying later that day. Maybe checked with her family. Debated in his head whether to call SAR as nightfall approached. Decided to wait until the next morning.

There are more <modsnip> postings on the same subject.

 

[Grouse]

This was discussed in #Thread 3

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

@CoverMeCagney wrote:



There are more <modsnip> postings on the same subject.

Thanks for digging it out, just looked back and reminded myself of the discussions we had covering this back in January. I don't see this as a hole in the dossier at all.

 

[RickshawFan]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I’m totally unclear what LBT Global has to do with the issue at hand, but my sleuth hat says to avoid taking marketing blurbs for fact. I’d want fact-based, documented, independent, evidence of the company’s work before evaluating what role it has (if any) in this discussion. Maybe it does, or maybe it doesn’t; a marketing blurb doesn’t advance the issue IMO.
I’m not sure, either, that it would be a prima facie pejorative to convert a tea shoppe to an office. I certainly didn’t assume @Steve13 ’s comment went in that direction. My instinct was to think it might be rather fun. Doilies for letterhead ‘n’ all. Victoria sponge all day, every day. The clink of teaspoons on saucers during Zoom calls. Round biz cards in the shape of jam tarts. The wondrous gurgle of hot brown stuff issuing from the spout to make your Zoom callees salivate with feel-good childhood memories of mummy…. IMO.

 

[Steve13]

Thanks for digging it out, just looked back and reminded myself of the discussions we had covering this back in January. I don't see this as a hole in the dossier at all.

Thanks for this, Grouse. Went back and had a look. Three things of interest. First, you correctly flagged there that LBT Global describe the dossier as DC's. I hadn't noticed that. In that case, my stuff about LBT was indeed a red herring since they're not the author. Sorry LBT, if you're reading.... The author is DC and so the hole (which I know you don't agree with, but see below) and inconsistencies are his. Second, the dossier includes this:
"On this specific hike she had indicated she would return to the motorhome in Benasque by Wednesday 25th at the latest (the day she was reported missing)". Interestingly, the Daily Mail piece which refers to 24th (x3) does specifically say that was the day before ED was due back, so it does seem that the reporter was told this. in the piece, the source seems to be the cops. The source of the confusion about when ED was reported missing appears to be DC himself. It's quite a significant inconsistency. One scenario is a clear statement that DC reported ED missing because she failed to turn up when confidently expected; the other is that he spent the whole time worrying that she might be injured or missing and didn't regard the 25th as particularly significant at all. It can only be one or the other. All other publications (plus dossier) say 25th, though. Notably, it would be disappointing if you reported someone missing to SAR and they went; "Sounds serious. We'll get right onto it in a couple of days". No? This is also where there's another deep inconsistency about experience/skills/low risk. This doesn't work at all alongside using a tent like a duvet, her route only being approximately conveyed as a vague afterthought nor alongside the idea that an experienced person could be very worried about someone possibly being injured in the hills for 2 days without reporting it immediately (then it taking another 2 days to get the search going). What do you think?

 

[Steve13]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I’m totally unclear what LBT Global has to do with the issue at hand, but my sleuth hat says to avoid taking marketing blurbs for fact. I’d want fact-based, documented, independent, evidence of the company’s work before evaluating what role it has (if any) in this discussion. Maybe it does, or maybe it doesn’t; a marketing blurb doesn’t advance the issue IMO.
I’m not sure, either, that it would be a prima facie pejorative to convert a tea shoppe to an office. I certainly didn’t assume @Steve13 ’s comment went in that direction. My instinct was to think it might be rather fun. Doilies for letterhead ‘n’ all. Victoria sponge all day, every day. The clink of teaspoons on saucers during Zoom calls. Round biz cards in the shape of jam tarts. The wondrous gurgle of hot brown stuff issuing from the spout to make your Zoom callees salivate with feel-good childhood memories of mummy…. IMO.

Dead right. "I'll be right over with your scones in a moment, Mrs Miggins, but first I'm just going to quickly put together a crisis-management plan for a Sandown missing-dog situation".

 

[Grouse]

Thanks for this, Grouse. Went back and had a look. Three things of interest. First, you correctly flagged there that LBT Global describe the dossier as DC's. I hadn't noticed that. In that case, my stuff about LBT was indeed a red herring since they're not the author. Sorry LBT, if you're reading.... The author is DC and so the hole (which I know you don't agree with, but see below) and inconsistencies are his. Second, the dossier includes this:
"On this specific hike she had indicated she would return to the motorhome in Benasque by Wednesday 25th at the latest (the day she was reported missing)". Interestingly, the Daily Mail piece which refers to 24th (x3) does specifically say that was the day before ED was due back, so it does seem that the reporter was told this. in the piece, the source seems to be the cops. The source of the confusion about when ED was reported missing appears to be DC himself. It's quite a significant inconsistency. One scenario is a clear statement that DC reported ED missing because she failed to turn up when confidently expected; the other is that he spent the whole time worrying that she might be injured or missing and didn't regard the 25th as particularly significant at all. It can only be one or the other. All other publications (plus dossier) say 25th, though. Notably, it would be disappointing if you reported someone missing to SAR and they went; "Sounds serious. We'll get right onto it in a couple of days". No? This is also where there's another deep inconsistency about experience/skills/low risk. This doesn't work at all alongside using a tent like a duvet, her route only being approximately conveyed as a vague afterthought nor alongside the idea that an experienced person could be very worried about someone possibly being injured in the hills for 2 days without reporting it immediately (then it taking another 2 days to get the search going). What do you think?

Yeah, there's a lot up thread isn't there?

What do I think? Well I already gave my views on the delay in reporting. As for all the stuff about experience levels, using the tent as a bivvy bag etc, that's all been covered ad nauseam up thread as well with a lot of expert hiking views on display. While I don't disagree with some of the views (particularly on the nutrition side if the Lithuanian girl's account of rations has been accurately reported), I do think too much has been made of that angle and that ED was more than capable of making these kind of trips given the clemency of the weather for the time of year. MOO.

ETA: I would have thought we might have heard a bit more about the searches going on by now, particularly about the lakes.

 

[RickshawFan]

Dbm