Special Counsel Issues 1st Indictments

[TMAN2014]

<Respectfully snipped>

The thread title/topic of this discussion is Special Counsel Issues 1st Indictments. 100% of discussion on this thread should be limited to the Mueller investigation into (possible) Russian interference in our 2016 election. Topics you mention have nothing to do with Mueller's investigation, so that is why they are not being discussed here, nor should they be.

Tricia has been very generous in allowing this high-profile, albeit political, case to be discussed because it is a major (possible) criminal investigation. TOS requires adherence to the title topic.

Mueller's investigation is NOT even limited to Russian interference in the election. His investigation is open to any area he wants to pursue and NOT LIMITED IN SCOPE. That's the problem.

 

[kaen]

Mueller's investigation is NOT even limited to Russian interference in the election. His investigation is open to any area he wants to pursue and NOT LIMITED IN SCOPE. That's the problem.

The thread is not about the scope or legitimacy of this investigation. With Mueller looking at the links to Russia of all of these actors, I am sure that we will get an answer about the legal or illegal maneuvering of people connected with the campaign, which is the point of the investigation.

I want to second what BDE said about being grateful to have this forum to discuss this issue.

 

[TMAN2014]

1. We absolutely don't know that.

2. This investigation began way before the election.

3. Was the firing of Comey obstruction of justice to cover up an increasingly wider net of collusion with a foreign adversary to the benefit of a presidential candidate? The fact that Flynn's legal counsel has cut ties with the WH legal counsel indicates the investigation is moving up the chain of command.

There's an absolute reason for three separate branches of government. And by all accounts, the special counsel has the full backing of a bipartisan congress that well understands the gravity.

Do I have theories? Absolutely. And it has little to do with whether or not one is a conservative or liberal, democrat or republican or independent.

#1 Fine, what states and counts were changed, how many votes, and please show a source. Where is the evidence that results were altered by Russians?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Mueller's investigation is NOT even limited to Russian interference in the election. His investigation is open to any area he wants to pursue and NOT LIMITED IN SCOPE. That's the problem.

What began as a special investigation into real estate dealings of Bill and Hillary Clinton and their partners (Whitewater Corporation) eventually turned into the Monica Lewinsky saga. There was no limit to the scope of that Special Counsel investigation that eventually led to impeachment proceedings re: Clinton's inappropriate sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky.

 

[TMAN2014]

This is part of the Mueller investigation. This Turkish cleric has nothing to do with Russian interference in the election. Mueller's own investigation in a violation of Websleuth's TOS, and is off topic.


http://www.businessinsider.com/muel...p-fethullah-gulen-turkey-trump-russia-2017-11
"Robert Mueller is looking into former national security adviser Michael Flynn's involvement in the production of a film about an exiled Turkish cleric.

Flynn's consulting firm was tasked with producing the film last year and reportedly did not want anyone to know of its involvement in the project.

News of Mueller's latest focus on Flynn comes on the heels of a Thursday New York Times report*which indicated that Flynn's team is negotiating or cooperating with Mueller's team.*

 

[TMAN2014]

What began as a special investigation into real estate dealings of Bill and Hillary Clinton and their partners (Whitewater Corporation) eventually turned into the Monica Lewinsky saga. There was no limit to the scope of that Special Counsel investigation that eventually led to impeachment proceedings re: Clinton's inappropriate sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky.

Betty, do 2 wrongs make a right? If something unethical or wrong is done, does that give the green light for everyone to repeat something unethical or wrong, or should we strive to do the right thing in life?

 

[Giucy]

Betty, do 2 wrongs make a right? If something unethical or wrong is done, does that give the green light for everyone to repeat something unethical or wrong, or should we strive to do the right thing in life?

Let pretend you won't understand that the topic is Mueller's investigation on (possible) Russian interference.

If you want to discuss about anything else besides possible Russian interference, there are more suitable forums where you can welcomingly speak your mind about conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theory is off limits on Websleuths.

 

[Giucy]

<Respectfully snipped>

The thread title/topic of this discussion is Special Counsel Issues 1st Indictments. 100% of discussion on this thread should be limited to the Mueller investigation into (possible) Russian interference in our 2016 election. Topics you mention have nothing to do with Mueller's investigation, so that is why they are not being discussed here, nor should they be.

Tricia has been very generous in allowing this high-profile, albeit political, case to be discussed because it is a major (possible) criminal investigation. TOS requires adherence to the title topic.

I think that discussing with someone such firmly believer in conspiracy theory is futile. Conspiracists won't accept logical facts that contradict their entrenched belief into conspiracy theories.

Unfortunately, changing their mind is beyond our scope, and beyond our abilities

 

[kaen]

This is part of the Mueller investigation. This Turkish cleric has nothing to do with Russian interference in the election. Mueller's own investigation in a violation of Websleuth's TOS, and is off topic.

RSBM

Mr. Flynn's connection with any other country as an arm of the president-elect and then an official of this country (with possibilities that his ability to do his job if he is beholden to another country) is part of the investigation, especially if the Turkey ties have any ties to the Russians.

With your thinking that this thread is against TOS, are you trying to get the thread shut down? Currently, there are many here who are discussing and theorizing about the crimes and potential crimes without incident--- without it being an "anti" conversation. Anyone can scroll by any thread or commenter.

I am not sure what you really want. I would humbly suggest that if you want this thread to go away that it is important to have a private conversation with Tricia as she is the person who decides what is against TOS.

 

[ilovewings]

Rachel lost me several months ago when she the big Trump tax reveal- that was laughable and for me, shattered her credability

 

[TMAN2014]

Let pretend you won't understand that the topic is Mueller's investigation on (possible) Russian interference.

If you want to discuss about anything else besides possible Russian interference, there are more suitable forums where you can welcomingly speak your mind about conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theory is off limits on Websleuths.

You don't have to pretend anything. Much of the Mueller investigation has nothing to do with Russian interference in the election. We still have no evidence that the Trump campaign was involved in any of this. What we do have is Manafort dealing before the Trump campaign existed, some low level inconsequential figure named Papadopoulos, and indictments that have nothing to do with Russian interference in the election.


The conspiracies theories I read in here are coming from people posting about Rachel and that conspiracy network.

 

[katydid23]

Mueller is following the evidence wherever that leads and I do believe Congress is the check and balance.

It matters more that we don't ever experience an election interference like 2016 again, and get to the bottom of what happened. This ain't no witch hunt, it is a special council appointed by the president's cabinet, and Mueller was overwhelmingly approved by congress.

BBM---I totally agree. It would really stink if someone was working with the Russians to try and bring down their opponent in the election campaign.

But now that Mueller has figured out that Manafort was working with the Podesta brothers all along, and Mueller has caught Hilary and the DNC paying Russian operatives for a bogus dossier and for setting up the phony meeting with the Russian lawyer in Trump Tower, and paying msm journalists to 'leak' the phony news, is Mueller going to finally charge them with something?

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM---I totally agree. It would really stink if someone was working with the Russians to try and bring down their opponent in the election campaign.

But now that Mueller has figured out that Manafort was working with the Podesta brothers all along, and Mueller has caught Hilary and the DNC paying Russian operatives for a bogus dossier and for setting up the phony meeting with the Russian lawyer in Trump Tower, and paying msm journalists to 'leak' the phony news, is Mueller going to finally charge them with something?

Well, we will have to wait and see, won't we? Are they screaming to have the investigation shut down?

 

[Giucy]

You don't have to pretend anything. Much of the Mueller investigation has nothing to do with Russian interference in the election. We still have no evidence that the Trump campaign was involved in any of this. What we do have is Manafort dealing before the Trump campaign existed, some low level inconsequential figure named Papadopoulos, and indictments that have nothing to do with Russian interference in the election.


The conspiracies theories I read in here are coming from people posting about Rachel and that conspiracy network.

So, Papadopoulos pleading guilty about his contacts with Russia during the campaign has nothing to do with Russian possible interference ? <modsnip>

 

[rosemadderlake]

Mueller's investigation is NOT even limited to Russian interference in the election. His investigation is open to any area he wants to pursue and NOT LIMITED IN SCOPE. That's the problem.

Mueller investigating $15M Flynn plan to snatch exiled cleric: report

Investigators are looking into a proposed scheme that would have landed President Trump’s disgraced national security adviser Michael Flynn and his son $15 million for delivering an exiled cleric into Turkish hands, according to a report on Friday.

While Flynn has come under investigation for his ties both to Russia and Turkey, the Wall Street Journal reported that special counsel Robert Mueller is zeroing in on an aborted plot to kidnap Poconos preacher Fetullah Gulen.

FBI agents have asked at least four people about a December meeting at the 21 Club in Midtown where Flynn and Turkish government officials allegedly discussed capturing Gulen, according to the Journal.

Flynn at the time was an aide to the Trump campaign and the President had already announced he would serve as White House national security adviser.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...snatch-exiled-cleric-report-article-1.3623367

---
Flynn is in a whole lot of hot water for a number of reasons. He registered as a foreign agent after he resigned as NSA. As trump's campaign advisor, he had received intelligence briefings along with Trump since September 2016 and was appointed NSA after trump's win in November 2016.

The timeline that is potentially damaging is the day after Flynn resigned, trump summoned Comey to let the investigation go...

Where this might lead is to promises made during the campaign of 2016 to foreign entities, Russia, Turkey, at the compromise of US national security.

This goes way beyond trump's working man, forgotten man, message that won him the election.

Was trump naive? Was trump a complicit player? Why did trump really fire Comey? This is why Flynn is perhaps a pivotal key.

Do I have a theory about what happened during election 2016? Yes I do.

 

[simba16]

Mueller works within scope authorized by Rosenstein, deputy attorney general, since Sessions is recused.

 

[simba16]

BBM---I totally agree. It would really stink if someone was working with the Russians to tryand bring down their opponent in the election campaign.

But now that Mueller has figured out that Manafort was working with the Podesta brothers all along, and Mueller has caught Hilary and the DNC paying Russian operatives for a bogus dossier and for setting up the phony meeting with the Russian lawyer in Trump Tower, and paying msm journalists to 'leak' the phony news, is Mueller going to finally charge them with something?

Bogus dossier? Some parts have been proved. Have you read the dossier? Phony meeting? Who says? Trump Jr who lied repeatedly about any contacts with Russians? Paying journalists to leak? Where are your sources for these assertions? No conspiracy theories allowed.

 

[katydid23]

Bogus dossier? Some parts have been proved. Have you read the dossier? Phony meeting? Who says? Trump Jr who lied repeatedly about any contacts with Russians? Paying journalists to leak? Where are your sources for these assertions? No conspiracy theories allowed.

phony meeting=

Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr linked to investigation group behind salacious Steele Dossier

The Russian lawyer who met Donald Trump Jr and allegedly offered to supply damaging information about Hillary Clinton, is apparently linked to a firm[ Fusion GPS] that helped compile the notorious dossier of wild and unproven allegations about the US President.

Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier.&#8221;


&#8220;Fusion GPS is the company behind the creation of the unsubstantiated dossier alleging a conspiracy between President Trump and Russia,&#8221; Mr Grassley wrote in the letter. &#8220;It is highly troubling that Fusion GPS appears to have been working with someone with ties to Russian intelligence - let alone someone alleged to have conducted political disinformation campaigns&#8211; as part of a pro-Russia lobbying effort while also simultaneously overseeing the creation of the Trump-Russia dossier.&#8221;
http://www.independent.co.uk/News/w...atalia-veselnitskaya-gps-fusion-a7834541.html

Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down



The co-founder of Fusion GPS, the firm behind the unverified Trump dossier, met with a Russian lawyer before and after a key meeting she had last year with Trump&#8217;s son, Fox News has learned. The contacts shed new light on how closely tied the firm was to Russian interests, at a time when it was financing research to discredit then-candidate Donald Trump.

The opposition research firm has faced renewed scrutiny after litigation revealed that the DNC and Hillary Clinton&#8217;s campaign paid for that research. Congressional Republicans have since questioned whether that politically financed research contributed to the FBI&#8217;s investigation of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign &#8211; making Fusion&#8217;s 2016 contacts with Russian interests all the more relevant.

But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair&#8217;s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting.

Simpson&#8217;s presence with Veselnitskaya during this critical week in June -- together with revelations about Fusion&#8217;s simultaneous financial ties to the DNC, Clinton campaign and Russian interests -- raise new questions about the company&#8217;s role in the 2016 election.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating the Trump Tower meeting as part of his probe of Russian interference in last year&#8217;s election.

Simpson and Fusion GPS were hired by BakerHostetler, which represented Russian firm Prevezon through Veselnitskaya.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html



===========================================

So YES, phony meeting, set up by Fusion GPS, to lure Don Jr to Trump tower and make him look bad. He was an inexperienced politician and took the bait.

This is NOT a conspiracy theory. It is a proven fact that this Russian lawyer worked for Fusion GPS even though everyone tried to cover that up for many months.


As for paying the journalists:

Firm behind dubious Trump-Russia dossier paid multiple journalists for work

Fusion GPS, the liberal research firm that funded and distributed the anti-Trump dossier, has paid three journalists for work related to Congress&#8217; Russia probe, according to court filings.
Lawyers representing the House Intelligence Committee made the assertion in a bid to force Fusion to turn over additional bank transactions involving reporters, law firms and a media company.


The Nunes subpoena forced the law firm Perkins Coie to admit that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign paid the bills. The money went from Democrats to Perkins Coie to Fusion to ex-British spy Christopher Steele. He then paid Kremlin sources for dirt on Mr. Trump. None of Mr. Steele&#8217;s core charges of collusion has been publicly confirmed.
Fusion and the House at first worked out a deal for relevant banks records. But House lawyers say they learned that Fusion withheld 112 transactions pertinent to the Russia probe.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/24/fusion-gps-russian-dossier-firm-paid-journalists-w/

 

[rosemadderlake]

phony meeting=

Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr linked to investigation group behind salacious Steele Dossier

The Russian lawyer who met Donald Trump Jr and allegedly offered to supply damaging information about Hillary Clinton, is apparently linked to a firm[ Fusion GPS] that helped compile the notorious dossier of wild and unproven allegations about the US President.

Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier.”


“Fusion GPS is the company behind the creation of the unsubstantiated dossier alleging a conspiracy between President Trump and Russia,” Mr Grassley wrote in the letter. “It is highly troubling that Fusion GPS appears to have been working with someone with ties to Russian intelligence - let alone someone alleged to have conducted political disinformation campaigns– as part of a pro-Russia lobbying effort while also simultaneously overseeing the creation of the Trump-Russia dossier.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/News/w...atalia-veselnitskaya-gps-fusion-a7834541.html

Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down



The co-founder of Fusion GPS, the firm behind the unverified Trump dossier, met with a Russian lawyer before and after a key meeting she had last year with Trump’s son, Fox News has learned. The contacts shed new light on how closely tied the firm was to Russian interests, at a time when it was financing research to discredit then-candidate Donald Trump.

The opposition research firm has faced renewed scrutiny after litigation revealed that the DNC and Hillary Clinton’s campaign paid for that research. Congressional Republicans have since questioned whether that politically financed research contributed to the FBI’s investigation of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign – making Fusion’s 2016 contacts with Russian interests all the more relevant.

But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair’s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting.

Simpson’s presence with Veselnitskaya during this critical week in June -- together with revelations about Fusion’s simultaneous financial ties to the DNC, Clinton campaign and Russian interests -- raise new questions about the company’s role in the 2016 election.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating the Trump Tower meeting as part of his probe of Russian interference in last year’s election.

Simpson and Fusion GPS were hired by BakerHostetler, which represented Russian firm Prevezon through Veselnitskaya.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html



===========================================

So YES, phony meeting, set up by Fusion GPS, to lure Don Jr to Trump tower and make him look bad. He was an inexperienced politician and took the bait.

This is NOT a conspiracy theory. It is a proven fact that this Russian lawyer worked for Fusion GPS even though everyone tried to cover that up for many months.


As for paying the journalists:

Firm behind dubious Trump-Russia dossier paid multiple journalists for work

Fusion GPS, the liberal research firm that funded and distributed the anti-Trump dossier, has paid three journalists for work related to Congress’ Russia probe, according to court filings.
Lawyers representing the House Intelligence Committee made the assertion in a bid to force Fusion to turn over additional bank transactions involving reporters, law firms and a media company.


The Nunes subpoena forced the law firm Perkins Coie to admit that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign paid the bills. The money went from Democrats to Perkins Coie to Fusion to ex-British spy Christopher Steele. He then paid Kremlin sources for dirt on Mr. Trump. None of Mr. Steele’s core charges of collusion has been publicly confirmed.
Fusion and the House at first worked out a deal for relevant banks records. But House lawyers say they learned that Fusion withheld 112 transactions pertinent to the Russia probe.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/24/fusion-gps-russian-dossier-firm-paid-journalists-w/

Fusion GPS paid journalists, court papers confirm

But the recipients' names, the amounts, and purposes of those payments were either redacted from the documents that Fusion GPS filed to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia or were not disclosed.

Fusion has asked the court to issue a restraining order against the House committee, which is demanding documents from the company that, among other things, explain the payments it made to reporters. Most of the documents sought are banking records.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fusion-gps-paid-journalists-court-papers-confirm/article/2641454

bbm: keep us posted when you find out.

 

[simba16]

phony meeting=

Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr linked to investigation group behind salacious Steele Dossier

The Russian lawyer who met Donald Trump Jr and allegedly offered to supply damaging information about Hillary Clinton, is apparently linked to a firm[ Fusion GPS] that helped compile the notorious dossier of wild and unproven allegations about the US President.

Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier.&#8221;


&#8220;Fusion GPS is the company behind the creation of the unsubstantiated dossier alleging a conspiracy between President Trump and Russia,&#8221; Mr Grassley wrote in the letter. &#8220;It is highly troubling that Fusion GPS appears to have been working with someone with ties to Russian intelligence - let alone someone alleged to have conducted political disinformation campaigns&#8211; as part of a pro-Russia lobbying effort while also simultaneously overseeing the creation of the Trump-Russia dossier.&#8221;
http://www.independent.co.uk/News/w...atalia-veselnitskaya-gps-fusion-a7834541.html

Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down



The co-founder of Fusion GPS, the firm behind the unverified Trump dossier, met with a Russian lawyer before and after a key meeting she had last year with Trump&#8217;s son, Fox News has learned. The contacts shed new light on how closely tied the firm was to Russian interests, at a time when it was financing research to discredit then-candidate Donald Trump.

The opposition research firm has faced renewed scrutiny after litigation revealed that the DNC and Hillary Clinton&#8217;s campaign paid for that research. Congressional Republicans have since questioned whether that politically financed research contributed to the FBI&#8217;s investigation of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign &#8211; making Fusion&#8217;s 2016 contacts with Russian interests all the more relevant.

But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair&#8217;s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting.

Simpson&#8217;s presence with Veselnitskaya during this critical week in June -- together with revelations about Fusion&#8217;s simultaneous financial ties to the DNC, Clinton campaign and Russian interests -- raise new questions about the company&#8217;s role in the 2016 election.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating the Trump Tower meeting as part of his probe of Russian interference in last year&#8217;s election.

Simpson and Fusion GPS were hired by BakerHostetler, which represented Russian firm Prevezon through Veselnitskaya.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html



===========================================

So YES, phony meeting, set up by Fusion GPS, to lure Don Jr to Trump tower and make him look bad. He was an inexperienced politician and took the bait.

This is NOT a conspiracy theory. It is a proven fact that this Russian lawyer worked for Fusion GPS even though everyone tried to cover that up for many months.


As for paying the journalists:

Firm behind dubious Trump-Russia dossier paid multiple journalists for work

Fusion GPS, the liberal research firm that funded and distributed the anti-Trump dossier, has paid three journalists for work related to Congress&#8217; Russia probe, according to court filings.
Lawyers representing the House Intelligence Committee made the assertion in a bid to force Fusion to turn over additional bank transactions involving reporters, law firms and a media company.


The Nunes subpoena forced the law firm Perkins Coie to admit that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign paid the bills. The money went from Democrats to Perkins Coie to Fusion to ex-British spy Christopher Steele. He then paid Kremlin sources for dirt on Mr. Trump. None of Mr. Steele&#8217;s core charges of collusion has been publicly confirmed.
Fusion and the House at first worked out a deal for relevant banks records. But House lawyers say they learned that Fusion withheld 112 transactions pertinent to the Russia probe.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/24/fusion-gps-russian-dossier-firm-paid-journalists-w/

The links you have provided do not support any of your findings. I'll wait for Mueller's report.