Special Counsel Issues 1st Indictments

[TMAN2014]

I think you've replied to the wrong comment. The comment to which you've replied concerns the Mueller investigation.

If I wrote the same post about Hillary or Podesta and the same speculations, I would get told I am offtopic, and told I am writing conspiracy theories. Why is that?
These are not facts:

"""Now add one more factor, that under the surface, this Mueller investigation is turning him and his family into cornered animals," Gartner continued. "They are guilty of treason, guilty of money laundering, guilty of collusion, guilty of obstruction of justice. They are guilty as sin and they know it"

 

[animlzrule]

If I wrote the same post about Hillary or Podesta and the same speculations, I would get told I am offtopic, and told I am writing conspiracy theories. Why is that?
These are not facts:

"""Now add one more factor, that under the surface, this Mueller investigation is turning him and his family into cornered animals," Gartner continued. "They are guilty of treason, guilty of money laundering, guilty of collusion, guilty of obstruction of justice. They are guilty as sin and they know it"

Well, yes. You'd be told you are off topic and writing conspiracy theories, because this thread is 1) about the Mueller investigation and 2) not about crazy conspiracy theories about Hillary.

 

[Elley Mae]

Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, has been indicted on a range of financial crimes. Little-known campaign adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about the extent of his contacts with Russian officials, but not to charges related to campaign coordination.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361610-anger-at-mueller-burns-hot-on-the-right

 

[Jennifer17]

From the same article.

[FONT=&quot]"Remember, Bob Mueller is a Republican who was appointed by a Republican, who served in the Republican administration … and stayed on until his term ended,” Speaker [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Paul Ryan[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (R-Wis.) said earlier this year. “I don't think many people are saying Bob Mueller is a person who is a biased partisan.”[/FONT]

 

[kaen]

Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, has been indicted on a range of financial crimes. Little-known campaign adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about the extent of his contacts with Russian officials, but not to charges related to campaign coordination.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361610-anger-at-mueller-burns-hot-on-the-right

I think the clarification on this is the word, "yet." The investigation is not completed. I think we will all see if there was collusion when this is all said and done. Mueller is getting the facts and the data he needs to make the determination and file charges, if necessary.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Presidential campaigns pay for opposition research, that is known. Not all campaigns pursue officials, make future promises to a foreign adversary to help take down their opponent.

It is interesting, and just an obversation, but an innocent person does not seek to vindicate by attempting to conflate potential charges towards their opponent. An innocent person would say if we need two investigations let the facts determine each case.

I would also note Clinton has been investigated relentlessly for the greater part of 25 years, and if there is anything to investigate, pretty sure they would go after it with a sledgehammer.

This special counsel investigation is moving up the ladder and Michael Flynn has a lot lose if he is complicit in dealing with foreign adversaries for the benefit of power. When the legal counsels cut ties I suspect Flynn will not plead the fifth, but will give over critical information because he may be sitting in a very serious corner.

What happened during election 2016? Was the DNC and Podesta hacked and published by a foreign adversary? Or disgruntled Bernie sanders supporters? Who is Wikileaks connected to? And how is it divisive advertising published on social media was initiated and paid for by a foreign adversary? And why? Who benefits? And why? Is there a cover up? And why?

To me, regardless of party affiliation, there are very serious questions, and this country needs answers. Seventeen separate agencies flagged election interference and my hope is this special counsel will find those answers.

 

[katydid23]

Well, yes. You'd be told you are off topic and writing conspiracy theories, because this thread is 1) about the Mueller investigation and 2) not about crazy conspiracy theories about Hillary.

How is it a /crazy conspiracy theory' when it is a FACT that Hilary and the DNC paid for the dossier to be produced? It is a FACT that the Russian lawyer that set up the Trump Tower meeting worked for that company that created the dossier.

It is neither 'crazy' nor is it a 'theory'. It is FACT and if we are going to have an impartial thread about the Mueller investigation, we need to consider all of the facts.

 

[ilovewings]

It is interesting that in the past few days Trump's tweets have become even more unhinged than usual, and he's displaying delusional behavior such as denying he ever made the "grab 'em by the pussy" comments, that TIME contacted him about person of the year etc. I wonder if as Mueller gets closer and closer to revealing his crimes if he's progressing from dissembling into dementia? I wonder if that happens if Congress will finally take the necessary steps to remove him?

Psychologist John Gartner: Why the Mueller probe makes Trump dangerous

https://www.salon.com/2017/11/18/ps...-why-the-mueller-probe-makes-trump-dangerous/

""Now add one more factor, that under the surface, this Mueller investigation is turning him and his family into cornered animals," Gartner continued. "They are guilty of treason, guilty of money laundering, guilty of collusion, guilty of obstruction of justice. They are guilty as sin and they know it. The noose is tightening around their necks and unlike Richard Nixon Trump and his cabal are not going to leave gracefully. Donald Trump is going to be really like Bonnie and Clyde; he’s going to shoot his way out."

I do find some of this hyperbolic. But it's astonishing how quickly he and the Russians have been able to destabilize this country. I would never have believed it. And seeing as how Trump isn't a mental giant, he's had a tremendous amount of help to do it. That that many people colluded to make all this happen is what is most frightening to me. Who are all of these people, and what happened to make them so reprehensible????

Great post; don't forget Steve Bannon, who wants to take down the government of the UnitedStates

 

[TMAN2014]

Presidential campaigns pay for opposition research, that is known. Not all campaigns pursue officials, make future promises to a foreign adversary to help take down their opponent.

It is interesting, and just an obversation, but an innocent person does not seek to vindicate by attempting to conflate potential charges towards their opponent. An innocent person would say if we need two investigations let the facts determine each case.

I would also note Clinton has been investigated relentlessly for the greater part of 25 years, and if there is anything to investigate, pretty sure they would go after it with a sledgehammer.

This special counsel investigation is moving up the ladder and Michael Flynn has a lot lose if he is complicit in dealing with foreign adversaries for the benefit of power. When the legal counsels cut ties I suspect Flynn will not plead the fifth, but will give over critical information because he may be sitting in a very serious corner.

What happened during election 2016? Was the DNC and Podesta hacked and published by a foreign adversary? Or disgruntled Bernie sanders supporters? Who is Wikileaks connected to? And how is it divisive advertising published on social media was initiated and paid for by a foreign adversary? And why? Who benefits? And why? Is there a cover up? And why?

To me, regardless of party affiliation, there are very serious questions, and this country needs answers. Seventeen separate agencies flagged election interference and my hope is this special counsel will find those answers.

Well Rose, I will have to get back to you later. Just don't have a lot of time, and I could probably take an hour to reply to everything I want to. I dispute the seventeen separate agencies that you list. That is misleading. That was more of a James Clapper ruse than 17 separate entities doing their own investigation, and forming a conclusion. I will have to post some sources on that later.

 

[human]

Are you denying he accrued billions as a businessman?

I was curious if one of the businesses was the $33 million he went bankrupt on in Puerto Rico. Such a common scam. Get money from the govt. Get paid for your”services”, then go bankrupt. It happens all over the world.

I get to see it where I live. So blatant but it is used over and over again. Money laundering also is what the resort scheme is used for

 

[Jennifer17]

How is it a /crazy conspiracy theory' when it is a FACT that Hilary and the DNC paid for the dossier to be produced? It is a FACT that the Russian lawyer that set up the Trump Tower meeting worked for that company that created the dossier.

It is neither 'crazy' nor is it a 'theory'. It is FACT and if we are going to have an impartial thread about the Mueller investigation, we need to consider all of the facts.

It isn't a fact that she worked for Fusion. It is alleged that she hired Fusion to help her overturn the Maginsky Act. Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. It is also alleged that she worked for the Russian government.

 

[simba16]

Are you asking who were the people who colluded with the Russians? Do you mean Debbie Wasserman schultz, Hilary and Bill, and company?



THE CLINTONS November 14th
Fusion GPS's ties to Clinton campaign, Russia investigation: What to know

Fusion GPS, the firm behind the controversial dossier of allegations about President Trump’s connections to Russia, was – at least in part – hired by a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

The revelation has sparked a frenzy among Republicans who have called for more information on just how involved former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was in the production of the unverified dossier.

Here’s what to know about the firm and its connection to the Russia investigations.

The Clinton campaign and the DNC paid Perkins Coie more than $9 million – although it’s uncertain how much of that money, if any, went toward the dossier.

The Clinton campaign and the DNC funded the project until October 2016 – right before the election.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-law-with-dossier-funding-complaint-says.html


Ned Ryun: Stronger Evidence Of Russian Collusion Between Fusion GPS, DNC, And Clinton Than Trump


"This Russian lawyer we will discover that she was actually one of the unnamed sources for the Russian dossier," Ryun said Wednesday on FOX Business. "The thing that is amazing to me in all of this is we have seen harder and stronger evidence over the last two weeks for Russian collusion between Fusion GPS, the DNC and Hillary Clinton with Russia than we have any evidence for the Trump campaign and Russia for the last year."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...en_fusion_gps_dnc_and_clinton_than_trump.html

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/24/dnc-clinton-campaign-paid-fusion-gps-Trump-dossier/

Why was the FBI investigating Russian interference in the election and possible collusion with the Trump campaign according to Comey before he was fired? I see one of your sources for looney conspiracy theory is Fox, Fox Business. Fox gave us looney Seth Rich conspiracy. Now Fox has been pushing debunked Uranium One conspiracy.

 

[simba16]

Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, has been indicted on a range of financial crimes. Little-known campaign adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about the extent of his contacts with Russian officials, but not to charges related to campaign coordination.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361610-anger-at-mueller-burns-hot-on-the-right

Papadopoulos was part of the Trump campaign and he was busted for his lies to FBI about his Russian contacts. Then he became "proactive" for the investigation. Should be interesting.

 

[simba16]

But he didn't take the bait. He attended the meeting and had no further contact and did not agree to requesting any further info from them.

They tried to lure him in and it didn't work.

But that is pretty hypocritical to criticize Don Jr from wanting to hear about opposition research, when Hilary hired a global firm, who worked closely with the Russians, to collect and create opposition research. And it was those same operatives that set up this meeting with Don Jr.

So it is pretty funny to say how 'wrong it is for don Jr to take that meeting' while ignoring that the person who reached out to him, was employed by Hilary and Fusion GPS.

Don Jr had no more contacts? I'm not taking his word for that after he lied saying there had been no contacts with Russians. Don Jr had extensive contacts with Wikileaks.

 

[Elley Mae]

It isn't a fact that she worked for Fusion. It is alleged that she hired Fusion to help her overturn the Maginsky Act. Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. It is also alleged that she worked for the Russian government.

Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html

The opposition research firm has faced renewed scrutiny after litigation revealed that the DNC and Hillary Clinton’s campaign paid for that research.

The DNC and Clinton campaign hired Fusion in April 2016 through lawyer Marc Elias, who was general counsel for the Clinton campaign. Fusion, in turn, paid Steele $168,000 for the dossier, memos from which were shared with the FBI in the summer of 2016.

 

[Jennifer17]

Fusion GPS official met with Russian operative before and after Trump Jr. sit-down

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html

The opposition research firm has faced renewed scrutiny after litigation revealed that the DNC and Hillary Clinton’s campaign paid for that research.

The DNC and Clinton campaign hired Fusion in April 2016 through lawyer Marc Elias, who was general counsel for the Clinton campaign. Fusion, in turn, paid Steele $168,000 for the dossier, memos from which were shared with the FBI in the summer of 2016.

That says nothing except what we already know, that is she hired fusion to help her with the Maginsky Act. We also already knew that the Democratic campaign took over the dealings with Fusion from the Republicans when Trump won the primary.

 

[katydid23]

That says nothing except what we already know, that is she hired fusion to help her with the Maginsky Act. We also already knew that the Democratic campaign took over the dealings with Fusion from the Republicans when Trump won the primary.

I think you are leaving out a couple of important things here.

Just HOURS before the Trump Tower meeting, the Russian lawyer was with the head of Fusion GPS. And the Russin a lawyer was the one who reached out to Don Jr and wanted a meeting with him.

So she was working WITH Fusion and at that same time she reached out to Trump Jr for a meeting, in which she claims she has some dirt on Hilary. And RIGHT AFTER that meeting she goes to meet the Fusion GPS owner in his hotel.

"But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair’s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting. "

That lawyer has very close ties to Putin and she hired Fusion GPS to do some smear tactics and dirty tricks. That is what that company does.


"One of the faces of the campaign to repeal the Magnitsky Act was the Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya (the same lawyer who famously met with Donald Trump Jr. in 2016). She visited the United States in 2016 ostensibly to lobby on adoption issues (Putin had barred Americans from adopting Russian children in response to the passage of the Magnitsky Act), but her real purpose was to push the repeal of the act and prevent the passage of a global law bearing Magnitsky’s name. Concurrently, Veselnitskaya defended Prevezon, a company sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act for laundering money from the tax fraud Magnitsky uncovered. Prevezon is owned by Denis Katsyv, a Putin-linked oligarch and son of a former Russian government minister."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...abb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.520fdb743269

She is not an innocent bystander. She is a Russian operative and her dirty mitts are all over this Trump Tower meeting. She invited Trump's people there so they would look bad, and it was this very meeting that allowed the NSA to begin wiretapping and unmasking. It was a covert move.

 

[Jennifer17]

I think you are leaving out a couple of important things here.

Just HOURS before the Trump Tower meeting, the Russian lawyer was with the head of Fusion GPS. And the Russin a lawyer was the one who reached out to Don Jr and wanted a meeting with him.

So she was working WITH Fusion and at that same time she reached out to Trump Jr for a meeting, in which she claims she has some dirt on Hilary. And RIGHT AFTER that meeting she goes to meet the Fusion GPS owner in his hotel.

"But hours before the Trump Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, Fusion co-founder and ex-Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson was with Veselnitskaya in a Manhattan federal courtroom, a confidential source told Fox News. Court records reviewed by Fox News, email correspondence and published reports corroborate the pair’s presence together. The source told Fox News they also were together after the Trump Tower meeting. "

That lawyer has very close ties to Putin and she hired Fusion GPS to do some smear tactics and dirty tricks. That is what that company does.


"One of the faces of the campaign to repeal the Magnitsky Act was the Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya (the same lawyer who famously met with Donald Trump Jr. in 2016). She visited the United States in 2016 ostensibly to lobby on adoption issues (Putin had barred Americans from adopting Russian children in response to the passage of the Magnitsky Act), but her real purpose was to push the repeal of the act and prevent the passage of a global law bearing Magnitsky’s name. Concurrently, Veselnitskaya defended Prevezon, a company sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act for laundering money from the tax fraud Magnitsky uncovered. Prevezon is owned by Denis Katsyv, a Putin-linked oligarch and son of a former Russian government minister."


She is not an innocent bystander. She is a Russian operative and her dirty mitts are all over this Trump Tower meeting. She invited Trumps people there so they would look bad, and it was this very meeting that allowed the NSA to begin wiretapping and unmasking. It was a covert move.

Why wouldn't she be with a Fusion lawyer? It has already been established that she had hired them.

 

[katydid23]

Why wouldn't she be with a Fusion lawyer? It has already been established that she had hired them.

She didn't hire them, she worked with them, in a smear campaign.

She was with the founder of GPS, a few hours later she meets with Trump Jr at Trump tower, then she goes right to the hotel and back to a meeting with the GPS founder.

GPS was being paid millions to try and find dirt on Trump. What a coincidence, that right in the middle of his meetings with his Russian operative, she 'just happens' to have had a sensitive meeting with Trump's team in Trump tower.

So you think that is just a coincidence? She is working closely with Fusion GPS on another sensitive matter, and then she happens to reach out to Don Jr and offer him dirt on Hilary? And you think it is not related?

 

[Jennifer17]

She didn't hire them, she worked with them, in a smear campaign.

She was with the founder of GPS, a few hours later she meets with Trump Jr at Trump tower, then she goes right to the hotel and back to a meeting with the GPS founder.

GPS was being paid millions to try and find dirt on Trump. What a coincidence, that right in the middle of his meetings with his Russian operative, she 'just happens' to have had a sensitive meeting with Trump's team in Trump tower.

So you think that is just a coincidence? She is working closely with Fusion GPS on another sensitive matter, and then she happens to reach out to Don Jr and offer him dirt on Hilary? And you think it is not related?

That is all speculation and opinion.

I might ask, do you think the many, many contacts that the Trump campaign had with Russians is just coincidence? And that all of them 'just forgot'? All of them?