State vs Jason Lynn Young 6-10-11

[fran]

Yes, I'm saying that if an eyewitness testimony includes a factual error of misjudging a person's height by 1 foot, then I don't think that testimony will be significant in jury deliberations. I base this opinion on very little - but it is based on the fact that so many people quickly discredited and ridiculed an eye witness testimony in the Cooper trial even though the witness testimony accurately described the victim.

The difference between the two witnesses is that in the Cooper case, the victim's photo and description was already plastered all over town.

With this witness, just a few days after the incident and a state away, IIRC, the witness had never heard of the Young case, didn't even know why LE were looking for him and her immediate description did fit the defendent. It wasn't until much later, after memories had time to fade, that she got confused on the height.

I heard her testimony and if I was on the jury, I would tend to believe her. But, that's just me.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Not as bad as it sounds or looks from the aerial.
They are standard, wooded lots with some pre-fab type or double wides.
I drove back there and it is not a 'trailer park'
Typical rural wake county. The Young's neighborhood is an example of urban sprawl.

Many people think of trailer, and they often get the wrong impression, IMHO. I lived in Oregon on the coast and when you drove up river, there were lots bordered with split rail fences, HUGE lots lined with trees and mowed 1 or 2 acre lots, with a mobile home, surrounded by decking, docks up to the river and fishing boats. Not you typical 'trailer' home. You go inside and don't even know it's a 'trailer,' per se. Like any other fabricated home.

When I lived out by Palm Springs, they have huge 'mobile home parks,' and they are very upscale. Really nice and it's not the 'mobile home' that costs an arm and a leg, it's the LAND or rental of the land.

Just, fwiw,
fran

 

[borndem]

The difference between the two witnesses is that in the Cooper case, the victim's photo and description was already plastered all over town.

With this witness, just a few days after the incident and a state away, IIRC, the witness had never heard of the Young case, didn't even know why LE were looking for him and her immediate description did fit the defendent. It wasn't until much later, after memories had time to fade, that she got confused on the height.

I heard her testimony and if I was on the jury, I would tend to believe her. But, that's just me.

JMHO
fran

ITA, Fran -- IMHO, as a juror, I would consider it strong evidence of JY being in that place at that time along with his vehicle. That's all she knew, and that's all she said. She was a good witness. And, as you say, she had no idea what the deal was, and apparently had never heard a word about or seen a picture of him.

 

[newMom]

No that wasn't directed at you. I was merely pointing out the continual usage of 5'2" or just over five feet tall is ridiculous IMO. I believe it was otto who read those comments and then posted 'gracie's testimony was worthless' words to that effect. Continuing to put forth a mis-stating of testimony causes people to take it for fact. Much like the 'no footprints in the snow around the Ramsey house', when there was no snow on any of the sidewalks around the Ramsey house to begin with. When it comes to cases like this, any little rumor or innuendo becomes fact after it's repeated a couple times IMO. MOO MOO MOO

Gracielee...you and I think soooo much alike! I knew I liked you!

 

[newMom]

I concur JTF. I went back there around 3pm on a Monday afternoon, I believe and lots of double wides/modulars on nice lots. Appeared like everyone was still at their jobs/working. So unlike the trailer parks in my area where basically people are hanging out on the porches and yards 24/7.

I drove by, too, LOL. It was a Thursday morning in the Fall of 2009. I had the same impression of that area - very quiet. As for Michelle's house, it seemed "higher up" off the road than I expected, fwiw.

 

[terminatrixator]

Quick question, did the witness Gracie say if she was behind the counter or when the defendant came in she had to go behind the counter. What was her vantage point of him?

 

[otto]

The difference between the two witnesses is that in the Cooper case, the victim's photo and description was already plastered all over town.

With this witness, just a few days after the incident and a state away, IIRC, the witness had never heard of the Young case, didn't even know why LE were looking for him and her immediate description did fit the defendent. It wasn't until much later, after memories had time to fade, that she got confused on the height.

I heard her testimony and if I was on the jury, I would tend to believe her. But, that's just me.

JMHO
fran

I'm going to have a look at the testimony when it's posted. I need to see for myself whether she seems like a reliable witness ... although eyewitness testimony of strangers does tend to be weak in general.

 

[borndem]

Found this at WRAL:http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=ral&Forum=340&Topic=10099

Thanks, shuze -- Even tho he is in sweet Virginny, the gas there should have been ruffly the same. So, some where around 7 -- 8 gallons is not much. I guess he only had 20 bucks in cash since he was such a plastic guy (wordplay not intended -- hmm, Freudian slip?? anyway..), even tho he didn't get but 15 bucks' worth. Tick-tock, I guess.

What would he have done to that poor young woman if he hadn't had the $20.00?? Chilling thought -- thank goodness the other customer was there, eh?

 

[borndem]

Her main job is a forensic chemist. She testifies, when summoned, to verify her findings. Her work covers several states.

hth,
fran

Wow!! That's impressive. Is she the bride, Mom?

And Best Wishes from a recent Mother of the Groom. (I had it much, much easier -- and probably much less expensive than you...). It'll be great -- sounds like only the fun part is left. Whew. Have a blast, MOTB!

 

[dgfred]

We know that police came to her and showed her a picture of Jason, asking if she had seen him. What else did they say? Did they ask whether she'd seen a white SUV?

I think the $20 for 15 deal would have stuck in her mind anyway... maybe not his height so much. In my personal experience, unless they find out at the doctors office... many ladies don't even know how tall they are, much less a guy walking up and fussing at them. I know I'm exactly 6ft tall so it is easy for me to judge height (give or take a little) when someone is nearby and around my own height.
As someone mentioned earlier, that was a dangerous job to have anyway with zero cameras watching for the limited security they even provide.

 

[dgfred]

We know that police came to her and showed her a picture of Jason, asking if she had seen him. What else did they say? Did they ask whether she'd seen a white SUV?

That IS a good question tho :waitasec: . But did she remember him immediately upon seeing the picture? If she recognized him, she would have probably remembered the vehicle his was driving then. Especially after fussing with her and leaving without $5 worth of gas.

Did he buy gas somewhere else? Why would he not use the $5 worth?

 

[jilly]

2 week call pattern to mommy
=============================
10-15-06---5 calls
10-16---9
10-18-..5
10-19....6
10-20....3
10-24...10
10-26....5
10-28...3
10-30...1
10-31...1
11-1...1
11-2....6
11-3....28

Geez!!! I see now why they had matching snowsuits!:crazy:

 

[borndem]

Good gosh! Reverse helicopter parenting.

Call me Oedipus....

 

[jilly]

Thanks everyone for all your updates and posts today!

Fran! Congratulations to you and your family! Do you think in the future you could be more nonchalant about it? j/k ya!! Hope you have a wonderful time!

JTF - nothing less than Foreman hey? I'd make that journey just to see you! - a whole new meaning for jury watch! lol

Back to Gracie! I think she did great. Don't understand the focus on today's estimate for jason's height. I agree with everyone else - she remembered him because he showed his ugliness. Years ago she identified him and said that he was tall. Everyone knows 5'2" is not tall and most importantly she identified him in Court today.

 

[otto]

But that is not what she said in the first 3 (IIRC) interviews. She said 'tall, blond hair'. I think she was just flustered about height in court... she should have just stuck with 'tall'.

From my viewpoint, perhaps from the juries perspective, they will be aware of the fact that she changed her testimony from tall to just a little taller than 5' or 5'2" between the time that she spoke to police and testified in court, which to me would say that she is unsure and under a lot of pressure to testify for the prosecution. If we are the prosecution, she should have "stuck with tall". If she is telling the truth, then it seems her memory is connected with someone just a little taller than 5'2" ... which is a far stretch (head and shoulders) from 6'1".

Flustered is not an excuse for mistaken facts ... and whether you're looking into someone's eyes or at their armpits - while they're abusive - should be memorable.

 

[otto]

I put far more weight on her description of "tall" within months of the encounter vs what she said 4 1/2 years later.

She never forgot that ugly face of JLY.

Jason looks like a typical North Carolina hillbilly ... I doubt his looks are unique in that area.

 

[otto]

Quick question, did the witness Gracie say if she was behind the counter or when the defendant came in she had to go behind the counter. What was her vantage point of him?

If she were sitting on an elevate chair and he was standing on the floor outside of a booth, then it would be understandable that she had difficulties judging his height. I still wonder if the police raised the question of a white SUV and showed a picture of Jason and the detoxed drug addict agreed that she had seen a white SUV a couple of nights earlier, that some ugly guy a little taller than 5'2" harassed her and now she finds herself in court unsure of whom to please.

 

[otto]

I think the $20 for 15 deal would have stuck in her mind anyway... maybe not his height so much. In my personal experience, unless they find out at the doctors office... many ladies don't even know how tall they are, much less a guy walking up and fussing at them. I know I'm exactly 6ft tall so it is easy for me to judge height (give or take a little) when someone is nearby and around my own height.
As someone mentioned earlier, that was a dangerous job to have anyway with zero cameras watching for the limited security they even provide.

Right. Some guy came in angry about the pumps being turned off, tossed a 20 on the counter, took 15 in gas and left. There was a white SUV as some point that night, or in the time between the murder and when she was questioned. She got the height wrong, and she is a clean drug addict ... perhaps trying to be helpful.

If this woman said that she was 5' or 5'2", I would guess that she's 5'2" in thick soles. How can she not know that a 6'1" guy is way taller, not only a little taller. I honestly don't think the jury can take this testimony seriuosly ... at least I don't view it as a tipping point in a jury verdict.

 

[jilly]

Thanks, shuze -- Even tho he is in sweet Virginny, the gas there should have been ruffly the same. So, some where around 7 -- 8 gallons is not much. I guess he only had 20 bucks in cash since he was such a plastic guy (wordplay not intended -- hmm, Freudian slip?? anyway..), even tho he didn't get but 15 bucks' worth. Tick-tock, I guess.

What would he have done to that poor young woman if he hadn't had the $20.00?? Chilling thought -- thank goodness the other customer was there, eh?

Can just imagine how he was fuming when he was putting in that gas.
I'm actually surprised he didn't have a jerry can of gas with him. He must have miscalculated.

 

[otto]

That IS a good question tho :waitasec: . But did she remember him immediately upon seeing the picture? If she recognized him, she would have probably remembered the vehicle his was driving then. Especially after fussing with her and leaving without $5 worth of gas.

Did he buy gas somewhere else? Why would he not use the $5 worth?

There is no good explanation, since Jason had a lot of travelling yet to do.

Police should have shown her a line up of 6 photos and asked if she recognized any of them as having bought gas recently. They should have then asked whether she remembered what that person was driving. Instead, police only showed her his picture, which she identified. There was a conversation about white SUVs, but if police didn't show an array of photos, why should we believe they were neutral in their questions about seeing a particular type of vehicle.

He bought gas in Duffield after the meeting

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/?action=view&current=Young-Map-Car-2.gif