Steve Thomas' book

[JMO8778]

According to Steve Thomas (p. 286), the vaginal trauma was a corporal punishment inflicted on JB.
He also says that JB probably was slammed against a hard surface (which caused the head injury).
But in his book, he offers no time line as to what happened when.
He presents no sequence of events as to when the vaginal injury and the head injury occurred.

Yes,I kinda wondered about the vag. trauma being called corp. punishment(which gives JR a pass)...sounds more like sexual abuse to me.
I suspect the head wound was really from the flashlight,and I wonder if he really felt that way,too..to me,it seems the point of the whole book wasn't the way it was written..it seemed to have a deeper,underlying meaning,one that wasn't openly stated.I also felt there was some evidence that was probably omitted,but I can understand that.
I guess we are left to our own about the timeline.That's one reason I said I wished Mark Fuhrman would write a book..he's very concise about putting the perp's movements together with the actual evidence, and on a timeline as well.In fact, I bet he's got this case figured out to a T already.But I understand he has great respect for ST, so I'm doubting he would write one,as that could appear to be upstaging him.

For, judging from the sliver of wood found in the child's vagina, the vaginal injury was inflicted by the broken paintbrush taken from the paint tray in the basement.
So Patsy Ramsey raced down into the basement, broke the paintbrush, ran upstairs and jabbed it into JB's vagina, and then slammed JB's head against a hard object?
Ridiculous imo.

And it is just as (even more imo) ridiculous the other way round:
Patsy slammed JB's head against a hard surface and then went down into the basement, broke a paintbrush, and went upstairs again to jab it into her (unconscious!) child's genital area to 'punish' her. Laughable.

Doesn't make any sense to me,either.Only the past, chronic corporal abuse fits in this scenerio.Unless he's trying to say that PR didn't use corp. punishment that night...instead,she attempted to cover the past abuse with a fresh injury,in order to simulate recent sexual abuse,and not past corp. punishment?

In addition, Steve Thomas, although pointing out that the child had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, doesn't even attempt to built this chronic abuse into his theory.
Again he gives John Ramsey a pass.

I found it odd that supposedly PR's father babysat for them,and he got a pass on sexual abuse as well.Why couldn't it have been him?I don't recall reading if he ever got an attorney or not after JB's death...it appears only JR's side of the family all got attorneys afterwards?I noticed he was mentioned very little,even though he supposedly left on a last minute flight out right b/c Xmas?

John Ramsey, who closed the open basement window and didn't even mention it to investigators initially, although his daughter had allegedly been kidnapped and the window might have been the point of entry.

Yes,and I wonder at what point he broke the window ...maybe that's more imprt than the chair blocking the room?I don't buy the story that he broke it from getting locked out earlier,so he likely broke it at some point that morning.IF it was after FW was down there the first time,then FW obv. knows JR is lying about that as well.(In addition to JR saying he saw JB as soon as he stepped into the wine cellar).
I kind of wonder if,when he and FW went to the basement at 1pm,(right b/f he found JB),JR pointed out the broken window to FW,and FW tells him it wasn't broken earlier?SO JR then decides it would be better for him to find the body right away,as the supposed perp just left.(JR reports seeing a strange car in the alley that morning in DOI,but..he didn't report it to LE at that time.Obvious lie.)

 

[narlacat]

<<I found it odd that supposedly PR's father babysat for them,and he got a pass on sexual abuse as well.Why couldn't it have been him?I don't recall reading if he ever got an attorney or not after JB's death...it appears only JR's side of the family all got attorneys afterwards?I noticed he was mentioned very little,even though he supposedly left on a last minute flight out right b/c Xmas?>>

Yep, on a stand by flight.

I wonder about him too, he got little mention compared to everything Nedra had to say.

 

[Chrishope]

Yes,and I wonder at what point he broke the window ...maybe that's more imprt than the chair blocking the room?I don't buy the story that he broke it from getting locked out earlier,so he likely broke it at some point that morning.IF it was after FW was down there the first time,then FW obv. knows JR is lying about that as well.(In addition to JR saying he saw JB as soon as he stepped into the wine cellar).
I kind of wonder if,when he and FW went to the basement at 1pm,(right b/f he found JB),JR pointed out the broken window to FW,and FW tells him it wasn't broken earlier?SO JR then decides he'd better find the body right away,as the suppossed perp just left.(JR reports seeing a strange car in the alley that morning in DOI,but..he didn't report it to LE at that time.Obvious lie.)

It's hard to immagine him breaking the window after the 911 call - or more precisely, after the police arrived. It's not that he didn't have the opportunity, it's just that it would be quite risky. It must be difficult to break glass silently. Perhaps there is some special trick to it, but I don't think most people can break glass silently. JR wouldn't want police coming down the basement asking what the hell he's doing breaking glass.

If he broke it the night of the 25, or early the 26th, then he might have broken it say by placing some cardboard on each side and tapping lightly until it broke. Or maybe he used a glass cutter. It's possible the metal on concrete sound the neighbor thought he heard was JR breaking glass.

A question of course is - what happened to the broken glass? There were a few small fragments, so it seems likely to me it was broken that night. I can't immagine people with a housekeeper allowing broken glass to remain for months. (Nor can I immagine millionaires with a handyman leaving a window broken for months) But it still remains that not enough glass was found to account for the hole in the window.

I think FW would have told the police the window wasn't broken earlier, if that was the case. Of course, we don't really know exactly what FW has told the police, do we?

 

[JMO8778]

It's hard to immagine him breaking the window after the 911 call - or more precisely, after the police arrived. It's not that he didn't have the opportunity, it's just that it would be quite risky. It must be difficult to break glass silently. Perhaps there is some special trick to it, but I don't think most people can break glass silently. JR wouldn't want police coming down the basement asking what the hell he's doing breaking glass.

If he broke it the night of the 25, or early the 26th, then he might have broken it say by placing some cardboard on each side and tapping lightly until it broke. Or maybe he used a glass cutter. It's possible the metal on concrete sound the neighbor thought he heard was JR breaking glass.

A question of course is - what happened to the broken glass? There were a few small fragments, so it seems likely to me it was broken that night. I can't immagine people with a housekeeper allowing broken glass to remain for months. (Nor can I immagine millionaires with a handyman leaving a window broken for months) But it still remains that not enough glass was found to account for the hole in the window.

I think FW would have told the police the window wasn't broken earlier, if that was the case. Of course, we don't really know exactly what FW has told the police, do we?

Yes,I can't help but think there were a few things he told LE that weren't released.
It would seem the glass went out with the rest of the evidence.
That makes sense,but I was wondering if he broke the window after the 911 call,since it seems they were trying to set up the housekeeper,whom they reported had a key,and all the doors were locked.But maybe when that didn't pan out..ie-police didn't find the body right away,and LHP wasn't taken into custody...he broke the window as a second possible point of entry.

 

[JMO8778]

Another thing that is weird to me..how would an intruder even *know there was a broken window which could be used to get into the house?It's so stupid of JR to think that no one could figure that out...as well as...why would the perp slide the metal grate BACK into place? He wouldn't,he'd run like hell after committing a murder !!!

 

[Chrishope]

Another thing that is weird to me..how would an intruder even *know there was a broken window which could be used to get into the house?It's so stupid of JR to think that no one could figure that out...as well as...why would the perp slide the metal grate BACK into place? He wouldn't,he'd run like hell after committing a murder !!!

Exactly. We can be quite confident that he didn't leave by that window because there's no way he'd have wasted time putting the grate back.

I don't think someone could see the broken window w/o getting close to the grate, so yes, you're right, the intruder wouldn't know, unless it was someone familiar with the house.

 

[Chrishope]

Yes,I can't help but think there were a few things he told LE that weren't released.
It would seem the glass went out with the rest of the evidence.
That makes sense,but I was wondering if he broke the window after the 911 call,since it seems they were trying to set up the housekeeper,whom they reported had a key,and all the doors were locked.But maybe when that didn't pan out..ie-police didn't find the body right away,and LHP wasn't taken into custody...he broke the window as a second possible point of entry.

I see what you're saying but it just seems like it would be hard to break the glass with the police in the house.

Do we know what Officer French says about the condition of the window when he went down there that morning?

 

[icedtea4me]

I'm thinking the window was broken in the wee hours of the morning on 12/26/96. John opens the window, then takes a suitcase and places it under the window. The suitcase is parallel to the open window and perpendicular to the wall. He has his left arm on the sill. A blanket is used to muffle the sound when the baseball bat is used to punch a hole in the glass. His moving his left arm from the sill causes some debris to fall inside. I guess that's how I see it happening.


-Tea

 

[narlacat]

I see what you're saying but it just seems like it would be hard to break the glass with the police in the house.

Do we know what Officer French says about the condition of the window when he went down there that morning?

Here's what it says in PMPT, page 7.
' Earlier Rick French, the first officer to respond to the mothers 911 call, had immediately searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but he found nothing.'

Then on page 12

'Right before 10 am, alone, John Ramsey went downstairs to the basement, where Officer French had searched for his daughter. In the room where his son Burkes train set was kept, Ramsey found a broken open window. He closed it before going back upstairs'.

 

[JMO8778]

I see what you're saying but it just seems like it would be hard to break the glass with the police in the house.

Do we know what Officer French says about the condition of the window when he went down there that morning?

True,if he did do it then,then I'm guessing it must have been pretty noisy upstairs,what with all the ppl in the house and a lot of commotion going on.As well as he could have muffled the sound with something.

 

[JMO8778]

Exactly. We can be quite confident that he didn't leave by that window because there's no way he'd have wasted time putting the grate back.

I don't think someone could see the broken window w/o getting close to the grate, so yes, you're right, the intruder wouldn't know, unless it was someone familiar with the house.

And if his original intent was to leave a ransom note for kidnapping JB,how would he know he would even have time to write one?
Oh that just kills me in DOI when JR says the neighbor hearing the metal -on- concrete scraping sound was the perp leaving via the grate.If so, then he was kind enough to put it back,even tho at that point it would have been in his best interest to run like heck..how nice.

 

[Chrishope]

And if his original intent was to leave a ransom note for kidnapping JB,how would he know he would even have time to write one?
Oh that just kills me in DOI when JR says the neighbor hearing the metal -on- concrete scraping sound was the perp leaving via the grate.If so, then he was kind enough to put it back,even tho at that point it would have been in his best interest to run like heck..how nice.

It's a question of manners. You don't just break into someone's house, kill their daughter, and then leave w/o replacing the grate. It's just not done. :crazy:

Good point about the time to write a note. Of course, the IDI version of events has it that he's spending 5 or 6 hours in the house waiting for them to come back from the party.

 

[JMO8778]

It's a question of manners. You don't just break into someone's house, kill their daughter, and then leave w/o replacing the grate. It's just not done. :crazy:

Thoughtful lil booger wasn't he? LOL

Good point about the time to write a note. Of course, the IDI version of events has it that he's spending 5 or 6 hours in the house waiting for them to come back from the party.

I think that's why the R's have pointed the finger at the White's so much...who else would have known how long they would be gone.But they don't bother to explain how that figures in with them writing the RN,if the perp wrote it while they were gone,as they were with the White's that evening anyway.And the White's didn't need the money.Are we really supposed to beleive FW or PW broke in after they the R's got back home,wrote the note,stun gunned JB and took her to the basement, killed her,then went back out through the grate and even bothered to put it back? ..the R's make my head hurt.
With the window being 5 ft off the ground,if the perp did come in that way,he would likely already figure at that point that he wouldnt be able to get JB out of there via that window.So if per the suitcase being moved,(as he couldnt have moved it until he got in the basement) ...JR insists an intruder exited via the basement window,then why bother to write the RN? Nothing the R's say ever pans out in the end.
It seems they want us to think the perp broke in via the window(already at that point probably noting that it would be difficult at best to get JB out of the house thru it),but put the suitcase there anyway,as a way to help him get her out.Then bothers to write the RN note,likely knowing that if he wanted to exit with JB via the basement window,it would be difficult if not impossible.Not likely.A KN would just take her and exit via the easy and sure way...the door.

 

[Chrishope]

That's just the thing, nothing the Rs say (or LS or anyone else on Team R) hangs together to make a coherent theory of the case.

"It must have been an inside job", yet it could be this guy from GA who was apparently not in Boulder on Christmas '96. It could have been someone with a key, but they came in and went out the window. It was a kidnapper, but they left the body behind. FW's actions the morning of the 26th are said to be suspicious, but he wouldn't have been there had Patsy not called him. JBs been kidnapped, the Rs know this because of the RN. No need to look for her. Yet, they call everyone they can think of, even though the note says don't do that.

Sorry, but IMO, it appears the Rs are in it up to their eyeballs.

 

[Solace]

That's just the thing, nothing the Rs say (or LS or anyone else on Team R) hangs together to make a coherent theory of the case.

"It must have been an inside job", yet it could be this guy from GA who was apparently not in Boulder on Christmas '96. It could have been someone with a key, but they came in and went out the window. It was a kidnapper, but they left the body behind. FW's actions the morning of the 26th are said to be suspicious, but he wouldn't have been there had Patsy not called him. JBs been kidnapped, the Rs know this because of the RN. No need to look for her. Yet, they call everyone they can think of, even though the note says don't do that.

Sorry, but IMO, it appears the Rs are in it up to their eyeballs.

And then some.

 

[BBB167893]

That's just the thing, nothing the Rs say (or LS or anyone else on Team R) hangs together to make a coherent theory of the case.

Amen.

If he thought JR involved,then maybe putting all the blame on PR was a way to try to get her to point the finger at JR.

Didn't work.

Not only that, but I can't buy the corporal punishment idea, either. The injuries were too internal, you know?

 

[JMO8778]

Amen.



Didn't work.

Not only that, but I can't buy the corporal punishment idea, either. The injuries were too internal, you know?

It sure sounds that way !

 

[JMO8778]

That's just the thing, nothing the Rs say (or LS or anyone else on Team R) hangs together to make a coherent theory of the case.

"It must have been an inside job", yet it could be this guy from GA who was apparently not in Boulder on Christmas '96. It could have been someone with a key, but they came in and went out the window. It was a kidnapper, but they left the body behind. FW's actions the morning of the 26th are said to be suspicious, but he wouldn't have been there had Patsy not called him. JBs been kidnapped, the Rs know this because of the RN. No need to look for her. Yet, they call everyone they can think of, even though the note says don't do that.

Sorry, but IMO, it appears the Rs are in it up to their eyeballs.

Yep.Here's the IDI case:

Intruder no. 1-Ok,here's the deal...I just broke in the window..you go out the butler door.I'll go back out the window...no,wait a minute...*you go out the window,and I'll go out the door,but don't forget to put the grate back !

One-legged intruder no.2 wearing Hi-Tech boot: k,I'll meet you in the alley!

 

[UKGuy]

Yep.Here's the IDI case:

Intruder no. 1-Ok,here's the deal...I just broke in the window..you go out the butler door.I'll go back out the window...no,wait a minute...*you go out the window,and I'll go out the door,but don't forget to put the grate back !

One-legged intruder no.2 wearing Hi-Tech boot: k,I'll meet you in the alley!

JMO8778,
There is no Intruder except in the minds of Lou Smit, John Ramsey, and the media et-al, they all need each other.

 

[UKGuy]

According to Steve Thomas (p. 286), the vaginal trauma was a corporal punishment inflicted on JB.
He also says that JB probably was slammed against a hard surface (which caused the head injury).
But in his book, he offers no time line as to what happened when.
He presents no sequence of events as to when the vaginal injury and the head injury occurred.

For, judging from the sliver of wood found in the child's vagina, the vaginal injury was inflicted by the broken paintbrush taken from the paint tray in the basement.
So Patsy Ramsey raced down into the basement, broke the paintbrush, ran upstairs and jabbed it into JB's vagina, and then slammed JB's head against a hard object?
Ridiculous imo.

And it is just as (even more imo) ridiculous the other way round:
Patsy slammed JB's head against a hard surface and then went down into the basement, broke a paintbrush, and went upstairs again to jab it into her (unconscious!) child's genital area to 'punish' her. Laughable.

In addition, Steve Thomas, although pointing out that the child had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, doesn't even attempt to built this chronic abuse into his theory.
Again he gives John Ramsey a pass.
John Ramsey, who made a bee-line for the wine cellar where he 'discovered' JB's body.
John Ramsey, who closed the open basement window and didn't even mention it to investigators initially, although his daughter had allegedly been kidnapped and the window might have been the point of entry.

ITA with you that John Ramsey was involved at least in the cover-up, if not in more.

rashomon,
Both Lou Smit and Steve Thomas' Theories wrt Jonbenet' s death are both inconsistent, the reasons I outlined on another thread.

Steve Thomas' book is most likely an attempt at redemption, since dealing with an illness and a resignation concurrently will have been traumatic?

His Toilet Rage theory whilst not only being inconsistent neglects much of the forensic evidence, and patently leaves out many details, e.g. Photographs at the Whites etc.

So his book looks like an attempt to explain away why the fish wriggled off the hook and swam away, despite his investigation and the media scrutiny.

In addition, Steve Thomas, although pointing out that the child had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, doesn't even attempt to built this chronic abuse into his theory.

This runs as a sub-plot throughout his book, a review of the affidivats at acandyrose, will tell you how prominent this was.

The Paintbrush:
One question not aired in his book is why should there be a piece of the paintbrush handle missing? From memory it may be the smallest part of the three parts? It cannot have any forensic value, since two other pieces were left behind, both containing forensic link elements e.g. the piece that made the garrote and that in the paint-tote.

Now if you take a close look at the garotte photographs you may observe that the ends are jagged, they are not smooth! Couple this with Coroner Meyer's verbal remarks regarding digital penetration and it may be possible to conlude that if JonBenet had been assaulted with the garrote piece then either her internal or entry injuries should have been more severe?

So was the missing piece of the paintbrush handle left inside JonBenet and this was redacted from the autopsy?

Although its possible to explain away the sliver of wood found in JonBenet's vagina arriving as a result of a digital penetration after the garrote was constructed, but this does not explain why one piece was removed, and not another?

John Ramsey, who closed the open basement window and didn't even mention it to investigators initially, although his daughter had allegedly been kidnapped and the window might have been the point of entry.

Its possible that a more complex crime-scene was staged down in the basement. One that involved an open window and pre-arranged suitcase etc, there may have been other elements that were later removed. Although the wine-cellar staging is obvious after some analysis, the use of the garrote is particular to the basement, which suggests a prior staging was being obscured?

So much of the basement evidence may have been intended as part of some other staging, which was eventually partially dismantled and vetoed in preference to that of a ransom note led homicide?



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